Chris Harris Talks Cars With Gordon Murray
 

This is related to but not the same as Gordon Murray's new car thread.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvFusDf30ds

Wow,,, it's long but what a fascinating guy. An amazing collection of cars he's designed.

Listening to him talk about the F1 and T50, I am nodding in agreement about how a car *should* be, but what I wonder is why car companies can't build them that way... Are we enthusiasts much rarer than we would like to think?

The only car in the US I consider to meet that "minimalist M/T driver's car" philosophy is the Miata (the Boxster Spyder is stripped down, but it has too much comfortable tourer DNA in it). There's gotta be a reason no one else is jumping in right?

Nobody gonna buy it. The problem with sports cars is that the people who lust after them can't afford them, and the people who can afford them don't want the rawness they yearned for in their youth anymore. Cheap sports cars suffer from too much compromise to reach their price point. Expensive ones are built for their demographics (and guess what, it's not a single 25 years old track rat or canyon carver).

Mazda really deserve applause for keeping the MX5 as pure as they did for over 30 years (and it's this heritage that allows it to survive in the current market so well). Other than that you only get short lived models that get their 6-7-8 years in the sun and then get devoured by the bean counters - the MR2s, the S2000, the RX-7/8 (or whatever your fancy takes you).
It's shaping up that the Twins will follow suit (either with no second gen or with a watered down one), although I'd be really happy to be proven wrong by Toyota and Subaru. At the current climate in the car industry, I don't see a replacement for my BRZ.

That's a good point I keep forgetting, old people do like soft luxury comforts and extra seats for the kids. That's the demographic car makers target when they intentionally numb the steering feel and add throttle lag. Yes, I am amazed that the ND Miata is so pure, and though I didn't really enjoy my FR-S, I respect that for a rather practical 4-legit-seat car, it's still very sporty.

I feel like Toyota had a strong Miata competitor in the MR2, but dropped the ball on the Spyder by offering virtually zero luggage space, ceding the whole segment to Mazda. I just really hope Lotus keeps its upcoming car small and not-turbocharged, I'm prepared to buy one new to show my support.

Funny thing is that he is designing super cars, but he was driving for years a SMART roadster.

A car famous for having the worst automatic gearbox imaginable for a sporty car, and no manual option.

But have you seen his Escort? The designer of the F1 wants an Escort!
This goes for 17 episodes.




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSiG...zYW4jZK4yCYJ0z

Yeah ... In general very light and fun cars. Just a food for thought about the real world usefulness of super cars ...

Cars long ago stopped just being about transport. Status is a very relevant thing. You are not buying a car, you a buying an image.
Among the wealthy having a rare thing is more status than having a common thing. Having one of only 100 cars is much, much better than having one of 2000 cars.
I'm suggesting the usefulness is somewhat irrelevant.

As you said. It is not a car anymore, but an image.

AAAaaannnndnddd ...
He's gone back to the center seat driving position. It's so SPECIAL!

Ahm oot!

Humm,,,,,, I assure you not all 'old' people want soft luxury.

Well I guess your opinion and my opinion don't really matter when Porsche seems to think all old people want soft luxury :(

I finally listened to the whole thing. It was entertaining to hear his life history. I was surprised that I got more details about the car from some of the fifteen minute youtube videos than from this hour and twenty minute video, but nevertheless, some tangents aside, it was a nice tour of Gordon Murray's life, his career, the F1 and this new car.

I agreed with their tangents on hypercars being ridiculous, but I don't think every sports car or every hypercar has to be a driver's car. That is just one niche. As a man who is a racer and F1 engineer, he should understand that performance drives a lot of the industry, and the reality is that it is easier to add horsepower than subtract weight; he should definitely know that, so it shouldn't be odd where the industry has gone. It is easier for him to make this car now when other hypercars have already reached the zinith, and the industry is taking a step back to reflect. No longer are people chasing top speed. Going faster zero to sixty is no longer possible without Tesla saying they are going to put thrusters on their Gen 2 Roadster. Gordon's car may have been overlooked showing up at any other time. It is an amazing car, but it is being produced at an opportune moment when hypercar buyers might be reflecting on what their hypercars are missing and want a more light weight, analog experience. But he should know that many hypercar owners still want a cup holder, reduced wind noise and other refinements that he has omitted, and many may want something that will destroy anything on the road they may come across. This car will likely do that too. I'm just saying it seemed like an echo chamber conversation.

The other tangents on electric cars was rather redundant one liners coming from the same car purist echo chamber, so that was a little rubbish.

I'm not so sure about that. The LFA and Carrera GT were also all-carbon-fiber cars with fast revving and great sounding engines, and people love them for that reason. They weren't on as extreme of a diet and didn't have the aero of the T50, but the drivetrain alone has made them collector items. I honestly feel like the market for very high revving engines is bigger than manufacturers are taking advantage of. S2000 prices are crazy high for example.

When you only produce a few hundred cars at an astronomical price, it's pretty easy to find a market if only a few features stand out. I do agree that right now is a good time, since NA cars are getting rare.

In general, I agree with you that people will always love this type of car because it is timeless and pure, and the people that can afford these types of cars, will buy whatever is out there to show off, but that is the thing, showing off might be the flashy car, or the car with the latest tech, or the car with the biggest engine, but this car is like the hipster version of a hypercar--analog, light weight, understated design (relative to the field of hypercars), may not break any records but satisfies the purists sensations, etc., which may not show off as well. Then again, anything with Gordon Murray's name on it is capable of being shown off.

I think what I meant to say, since you brought up the example of the LFA, is that the T50 would have been received like the LFA, which was overshadowed by the similar arrival of the GTR. Like the LFA, it would have been a great car, but too little too late. While the specs are amazing in general, the car might have blended into the Zondas, Koenigseggs, Buggattis, La Ferrari, McLaren P1, Porsche 918, etc. Even the racing success of the Ford GT may have overshadowed another hypercar. I don't think any of these cars really compare to the T50, but I don't know if the audience would have been as receptive of the T50 as they are right now. It might have been a thing where people, "oh well that is cool, but look, the Chiron can do 300mph. What can the T50 do?" With the last batch of hypercars expiring their hybrid platforms or evolving into things like the Valkyrie, or with the last batch of hypercars giving up on the top speed record, and with the current patch of hypercars like the Tesla Roadster, Lotus Evija and Rimac going all electric, it has left a gap for the future of hypercars. If top speed is no longer worth chasing; if 0-60 is looking to be crushed by everyday electric cars; if emissions keep removing high displacement V12's; then where does that leave the future of the hypercar?

Enter Gordon Murray, "Look what I made," and he crushed it with the specs. It won't be the fastest, but it will probably be the best driver's hypercar. It would always be the best hypercar, regardless of opinion, but now is the time when it will be received as the best because people are ready a hypercar like this again.