CV joint issues on track cars
 

So a few guys seem to have had issues with CV joints on lowered cars and now I'm paranoid. My BRZ is lowered slightly (Still some dead cat space between tyre and guard) with MCA Race Primes only because that's what they recommended. IDGAF about 'stance' or appearance. Anyone experienced CV joint issues with track use or is it mostly an excessive travel issue on stupidly low cars.

I have heard what I now believe to be some CV clicking, only on one very hard corner of the track as I accelerate through it. I think my suspension might be compressing too much. (I'm on 235 AO50 softs). Anyone have similar experiences?

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I know @rice_classic has killed some and has some good info in his T4 build thread. I haven't had an issue yet but I carry spares. Could try checking the torque on the axle nut. I had one that used to make some noise that just needed tightened. I haven't come across another twin owner that has told be about a failure on track yet.

Click here: https://www.ft86club.com/forums/show...&postcount=111

Another good grease, BTW is the Swepco 101

It happens under big compression moments, and particularly if you get air with one side only and shock the rear.

Aftermarket axles typically fix it, as does getting a drop knuckle.

Thanks heaps. Always grateful for advice I get on this forum. Especially from people who really know.

I am lowered around 1.5 inches and have run over 25 track days with the stock axles. I recently damaged a boot and disassembled the cv joint to take a look. It had very little wear and I have no worries about re using it.
I wouldn't worry to much about them with a NA car.

Your experience =/= everyone's experience. While it may not have had happened to you, it's happened enough times to enough folks that it's known to be an issue that can and will occur. Maybe it's luck of the draw.

here's a picture of my axle when the CV decided to give up.

https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...45&oe=5F4F952B

before i started taking my car to the circuit. i installed the cusco drivers side axle heat shield. simple yet effective piece where it blocks the heat coming off the exhaust by blocking the unnecessary heat into the cv joint. hopefully this will extend the life of the grease and bearing components. part was cheap and easy to install. might be a worthwhile investment if your a bit worried about your drivers side cv joint giving out.

https://image.nengun.com/catalogue/1...d-d955b789.png

pn: 965-047-A

[emoji1785] [emoji2961]

Root cause analysis? Excessive angle= excess stress on the housing? Any warning signs?


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What type of track work and what tyres?

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No real warnings besides the usual clicking on load change. Came off of a berm and no more acceleration.

Ive run NT01 a lot as well as Maxxis RC1. As far as the type of track work...I would say lots of pushing the car hard and wide open throttle everywhere including places that compress the suspension and put maximum load on the CV joints.

Im not saying cv joints never fail, but if you go to a track day virtually everyone is running stock axles and I haven't seen any cars going home on a trailer because of it.
Some people on this forum have a vested interest and a history of trying to scare people into buying expensive parts from them that they don't actually need.
Ive been running hard for years with no concerns and no issues until I accidentally damaged a boot while messing with the exhaust. I disassembled the joint and it looks like new, but the boot is ruined so I replaced the whole axle with a used OEM one I got off ebay for $75. It is working fine as well.

That's not what breaks axles. It's sudden shock load when the axle cannot take any more.

Just because you've not had a history of failures doesn't mean everyone will mirror your experience.

This is the CV joint after a lot of hard track miles. When I run my fingers over the wear surfaces there are no indications of wear. I may get a new boot for it and keep it as a spare just to insure I will never need it.lol.

I hear you. That's what I'm worried about. Bumpy track at maximum compression while accelerating and a catastrophic failure

Hear the bumpiness: You can just hear the clunk I'm talking about at 0:26.

https://youtu.be/nx2ro4dUBw8




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Hi all. I have been doing HPDE and DD'ing my car for three years and have gone through two driver side axles in 40k miles. What is the upgrade option referenced in this thread? I don't need 1,000hp unobtanium super axles, but I could apparently use something stronger than OEM. I am on RCE springs, so it is not angle induced. I run 245 RS-4s on 17x9 Apex wheels. The heat shield looks like a smart mod, too...

If you're hitting max compression then you probably need more bump or something to help mitigate max compression on those type of bumps.

This is what @CSG Mike is talking about, nothing worse than an completely unloaded wheel getting shocked on when coming back down onto pavement. Yes, it happens more than 1 time. And no, I still have OE axles. (carefully knocks on wood)

https://scontent-ort2-2.xx.fbcdn.net...ae&oe=5FF352F0

DSS should permanently fix your problem, since you're not running slicks.

PM me to order and I'll get you squared away.

Stiffer spring rates
Raised rear subframe (SPL subframe bushing kit)
Max out rear droop travel with tender springs
Cusco heat shield
OE axles re-packed with hi-temp grease (Redline CV for example), vented

This is the formula I've followed. Not only will your axles last longer, you'll be rewarded with a better handling car. It's what the factory TMG cars in Europe do for longevity of their axles on endurance race cars. I haven't replaced one yet, and started with 30K street units. Hoosier R7's exclusively.

Lots of ways to skin this cat though....

Aren't those axles like 1200 bucks? And good for 800 hp? My car is stock. An axle rated at 300 hp would still be double what my car makes.

Let me know when you find a 300 hp axle.

Honestly, the stock ones should be. Fairly easy and cheap to replace, but a little disappointing nonetheless given stock power level, ride height, and street tires.

Just like how the TOB can't handle anything either.

Cars have weak points, you live and learn.

My car has been lowered since 900 miles, now at 23k miles or something. It's had hard launches it's whole life from ProSolo and now sees the track with R7s. I have yet to go through an axle. Though even with that, I have 2 spares always ready to swap.

Axles are rated in torque, not hp.

When you drop a fat 2800lb car on a little axle, it's gonna break.

My point is, as you know, simply that they are inadequate if they have trouble surviving stock power levels (in this very light car). But thanks for the correction on hp vs tq. I will drop a line to the guys that MAKE the axles and let them know to they are marketing them wrong

The car is not made to be track-ready out of the box. Folks who track the car are a tiny minority.

Even a GT3RS is not track ready out of the box.

This is why there is a 86 race car available for about $90k, and a GT3CUP available for approximately $250k. Those cars are truly track ready.

I hear you. I run an oil cooler, race pads, and try not to abuse the clutch and trans too much. Your "track ready" comment is very general though. I am talking about axles. Do those other cars require aftermarket axles for an otherwise stock car on street tires to run HPDE without breaking? Is that a common thing? I believe the answers are "no" and "no". Anyway, I will just keep buying stock ones every 20k until I replace the car. Thanks.

I honestly don't understand what point you're trying to stand on.

Cayman 2.7s have IMS bearings that explode basically. S54 Engines from the E46/E85/6 have VANOS Failure and spin bearings. I can literally go on and on.

EVERY car, let me say that again, EVERY CAR will have a weak point. Engineers design the car to satisfy the constraints that are given to them - IE not a car that is ran 10/10ths on the track, hell not even 3/10ths for that matter.

You call that a bumpy track? Thats smooth as a baby's bottom by my local tracks standarts. Here are some examples:

https://youtu.be/O7W4VXIWKtg

https://youtu.be/FCvJUmX4ejU

The car is very low compared to stock (1 to 2", cant remember how much exactly but low enough) and still is on stock axles. I've gone thru wheel bearings on all 4 corners already, but axles are fine. Main difference here is that my car is very stiff compared to yours, so it probably is more because you bottom out that because you are lowered or the bumps in the road.

I've broken axles on my s2k at the track, which a large part of the internet seems to believe to be a "superior" track car.

Axle failures on CTRs are quite common at the track.


However, I bet, if you ran the stock tires, you wouldn't break axles :p

So now you are misdirecting to S2K and civics? LOL What does any of that have to do with this thread? First, it's GT3RS'. Then it's GTR's. Now it's CTRs? Just stop 😂😂🤣. Those cars are not chronically breaking driveline parts doing HPDE on street tires.

Ps-I broke the first axle on the stock tires. But no, you are right… I
should expect to have to buy 800 ***TORQUE*** axles from DSS just to do HPDE on street tires at stock ride height with stock dampers and 100 torques 🤪

It seems no amount of examples will change your mind.

If you broke your first axle on stock tires... you may need to re-examine what you're doing, whether it's how your driving or setting up.

We'll agree to disagree.

How stiff? Whats your spring rate?

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Nice driving. Did you change your gearing?

What? No?!

How dare you even question his ability to setup a car. That can't be it at all, clearly.

It's not like a hit curbs every single time, have a lowered car with stickier tires and aero that for sure will put more load on a car and not have to deal with breaking axles.

...oh wait.

12k all around. Next spring change is probably going to need some more rear spring, playing with the sway bars to get the right balance but the rear would have benefited from a bit more even, in my case.

Thank you! I only changed the final drive to a 4.88 and the car is only on headers + tune power wise. Lots of mods to suspension and aero, but drivetrain is pretty stockish.

I like the way the 4.88 keeps you in the power band. The extra shifting is not too much?

Of course, anyone can have an axle or any other part of a car fail on them, even someone driving on the street on OE tires like a grandpa could still be subject to a failure. That's just life.

Being worried about breaking axles myself, knowing that replacements are going to cost me $300 each because of where I live in the world, I've followed the reports pretty closely and there are certain patterns to the failures. The vast majority of failures are on boosted and lowered (more than 1 inch) track cars. NA cars lowered no more than an inch seem to have far fewer failures, to the point that despite the fact that cars in this category *vastly* outnumbers boosted/lowered cars, there still seems to be fewer such reports in total.

The prevailing suspicion was that the CV joints aren't designed for the torque that a boosted motor provides and lowering beyond a certain point puts the axle at an angle that puts more stress on the CV joint causing it to be subject to premature wear. Of course, other things can factor in as well.

YMMV but if you are NA and no more than an inch lowered and experience axle failure, I'd just assume you were unlucky with the original and tell you to get another OEM axle and save your money. If you are lower, running stickier tires or boost, then investing in a DSS axle might be a plan.

What tires?

I’m low, I suspect lower than most and my springs are the eibachs (not too stiff), I’m racing on hoosiers yetI’ve solved the axle thing.

Not sure why it’s such a difficult puzzle. Keep the heat out of it, put in the good grease and let it breathe.