Tires
 

Hi everyone,
Can anyone confirm what tires are coming on the 2020’s? Tirerack is still saying the OEM is the primacy, I thought they got rid of those and put proper summer on?

I know the TS has Pilot sports but I’m wondering what the limiteds have.
Thanks

Ps I did try a search :search:

Got my 2020 Limited back in Nov. so still got the factory tires on. They are Michelin Primacy HP 215/45R17.

Thanks for the reply. Subaru claims they are summer performance only tires which the primacys definitely are not.. interesting.

I'm really looking forward to ditching my OEM tyres.. this coming Friday the car gets new boots, Goodyear Eagles F1 Asymmetric 5.

Primacies are summer touring tires. They aren't actually meant for winter temperatures. I think you can now get all season tires as an option.

People actually keep OEM tires? Don't you just throw them away with the dealer license plate frame?

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I've had some great OEM tyres on past cars.. but mystified by the Twins OEM rubber.. all the bullshit about the OEM rubbers making it playful is nonsense.

Tires
 

I think the primacy HPs are fantastic in the summer. They have tons of feedback, they’re super predictable near and over the limit, and their grip level is perfectly adequate for daily driving. They brake hard, straight and true, and I’ve never had an emergency maneuver get compromised by them. And they last a long time for non-eco tires. It took going on stickier tires for a while to appreciate the OEM rubber for what it is.

Perhaps the 'American' Primacy is different from the UK version. I never felt confident with them, but then I was going from them to my Exige (A048r).. The UK Prius wears the same OEM rubber and I think that sums them up, great taxi tyres..

I thought the OEM tires were decently fun on the street, I never autocrossed with them though. Definitely not a girl to marry, but you can still have a good time.

Could you elaborate on this please? Is this because stickier tires make the car less fun, as some claim?

I seriously had a little more fun with the Primacy tires than the Pilot considering I'm not tracking the car...yet. The Pilot are a much better overall tire but for daily driving I personally think the Primacy are a blast.

Sticker tires hold speed much better and allow you to drive far more aggressively without losing traction. The OEMs are pretty forgiving and let you know when you're losing traction which happens at fairly low speeds, which IMO is better for street driving. The car is still really fun with stickier tires though.

The thing people are referring to is being able to throttle oversteer on command. Tires with less grip will require less throttle and less speed to break loose. Even if you're not doing mad drifts in the city, being able to rotate the car under throttle because of this is what makes driving a RWD car fun.

Tires with more grip have higher limits, therefore require more speed and throttle before they break free. This means you have to be more aggressive or going faster to achieve that oversteer or rotation, which is not always safe on public roads.

I have no disagreement with the Primacy HP as a factory tire on such a cheap car. They are appropriate for the car's power and as a daily driven car. I do kind of wish Subaru used the same Dunlop Sport Maxx RT as the WRX factory tire for that extra turn-in sharpness.

Exactly. The primacies lower the speed at which you can play around, which makes it so you can do it almost anywhere. With the sticky tires you can still slide around and have fun, but you can’t do it unless you have the room to go faster. For AutoX I prefer Hankook V12s or PSS (haven’t tried the PS4 yet). But for daily driving the primacy HP is sweet

There are many tires under the primacy line, maybe you guys got a different one? Is it the Primacy HP?

Saying primacy is like saying pilot sport. Which one?

Primacy 3
Primacy 3 ZP
Primacy HP
Primacy MXM4
Primacy MXM4 ZP
Primacy MXV4
Primacy Tour A/S
Primacy Tour A/S ZP
Primacy A/S
Primacy A/S Selfseal

With the BRZ being my first RWD car, I understand what you're talking about, but does that require breaking traction? I.e. do you need to break traction to get the rear to rotate the car into the car? Or is it enough to apply power during the turn for that to happen?

Edit to add - when I test drove a manual Genesis G70 I would feel the rear rotating the car (not as much as in the BRZ, but it was definitely noticeable), and I think it wore PS4 (not S) tires. Not sure if we're talking about the same thing.

The strange part is that buying these tires yourself is much more expensive than tires like PS4S or ECS - TireRack has the Primacys at about $250 while PS4S are for less than $200 and ECS for around $150. I'm sure Subaru and Toyota don't pay list price, but it's a pretty bizarre choice, nonetheless.

Americas Tire seems to be a bit more reasonable on the price difference, but the Primacy HP is still a few bucks more expensive than the PS4S...it could be due to a lower volume tire...a 240 tread-wear touring tire is somewhat odd. I recognize tread-wear ratings are not standardized and can vary within a brand.

I haven't tried the PS4S on the BRZ yet, but on 2 other cars I had, once I switched to PS4S I consistently notice 4 things...

1. smaller road imperfections are soaked up better, 2. reduced road/tire noise and 3. immense grip in wet and hydroplane resistance, and 4. a slight reduction in turn-in sharpness/sidewall flexibility at the limits in some b-road and most track conditions (this is not a tire I like to run for an HPDE for this reason alone).

I might try the PS4S on the BRZ after doing a trackday with the stock tires, and I'd expect the same 4 things to stand out to me...but since this is a weekend/track-day car for me, I will likely go for stickier tires, foregoing daily comforts; like Hankook R-S4 or Bridgestone 71-R.

No you don't have to be doing massive slides to rotate the car on throttle. The rear limited slip differential sending power to the outside wheel definitely helps the car rotate. As you're approaching a turn, lift off the throttle or brake to transfer the weight to the front of the car - at this moment the front wheels have more grip than the rear. Assuming you're already in a low gear, now turn in sharply and smoothly give it throttle and you should hear the rear tires clawing away at the ground as car rotates into the turn - even with traction control on.

That instantaneous sensation of yaw at normal speeds is what makes this car fun. Chris Harris explains that sensation very well in this video: https://youtu.be/JUhLXvxlQR4

So would stickier tires have an impact on this behavior? From what other folks said here in the thread, it sounded like sticker tires detract from the ability of the car to rotate like that.

Yeah, I love that video - Chris does a great job at articulating the feeling of the car.

Yes, it would require more effort. But what you lose in low speed playfulness, you gain in overall confidence in handling. There are plenty of Max Performance summer tires that have more grip than the Primacy HP yet still preserve the playfulness of the car.

Hmm, this sounds pretty contradictory - if you lose low speed playfulness because it requires more effort to rotate with the rear wheels due to stickier tires, how would a tire offer both more grip and still preserve that playfulness? I'm really trying to understand this, since this is my first RWD sports car.

The playfulness isn’t gone, you just have to go 10 mph faster

Exactly. Like I said earlier it just requires more effort whether it be more speed, or more revs, or more steering (ever heard of the Scandinavian flick? :D).

@Ohio Enthusiast Don't sweat it. Just learn about weight transfer and get a lot of seat time to develop yourself as a driver and you'll find you can have fun one way or another with a wide range of different tires.

yep. the philosophy is that by the time you wear through the oem tires, you understand the actions and methods at play that get the car to handle a certain way, and are ready to step up your game to being more serious.

it's a learning car, and that's what makes it different. it offers the unique opportunity that it's initially set up to teach the driver specific techniques at very low speeds. and as you progress a a driver, simple modifications like better tires can be made that make the car better than it came, but improved you as a driver firstly, so you know and understand how to get even more out of each set of improvements.

My summer tires are Michelin PS4. My winter tires are BFG comp 2 A/S. The grip in the summer is great and you need more speed to get the back out. The grip in the winter is pretty good, and you get that slide in the back, which is fun.

Personally, I think I could go year round on a decent A/S tire, without much complaint, because I just DD and spirited mountain runs. If you autox or track you need good summers or track tires and push that car to the limits.

I have the HPs.. plenty of tread left but the rubber is aging.. lots of cracks...

Tires
 

Same here, I’m on 2014 primacy HPs and they’re great still. But I never drive below 60F/16C.

I would never say they're a great tyre.. they do a job of keeping my car on the road but fail to inspire... 4 more days before getting my new boots..

i considered them to be a great learning tire. they were extremely consistent and predictable throughout the entire tread thickness, and the stiffness of them communicated the road very well. it was a great first tire for the car.

but i hated the low entry speed, and how easily they could be broken loose at the slightest whim.

also i'm never pay more than $100/tire. i don't care how great they are. they all turn to smoke with me anyways.

This was my experience with them. They allowed me the opportunity to understand the car's limits with good feedback (read: noise). It's not until you've driven on crazy ultra high performance tires that you'll start to understand terms like " greasy" where the tire literally gives you no feedback until it has lost its connection with the ground. It really feels like when you drag a crayon on paper; there's hardly a way to see how you to go where you are or how to fix it, since the grip is lost and the suspension can't give you feedback either.

These tires are like a sincere, but weak spirited partner- they may not be tolerant of your needs and the relationship probably won't last long, but at least they tell you what they're getting fed up with. Better than a super loyal partner who will just divorce you suddenly and you don't understand what you did wrong.

People love to crap on these tires... The Primacy's are not race winning rubber but they are not meant to be. They are durable, predictable and fun. Switching to track tires upped corner speeds and braking limits a lot, but if you are not competing, you can learn on a lot from the stock tires.

I've gone to the track 3 times with my stock BRZ with the Primacys. Needless to say its fun but the tires are getting absolutely shredded on the outside edge. Will get RS4's for next season.