How to get test drives on rare/older sports cars
 

I'm always one to plan ahead, and am thinking about the next car after my BRZ. Having come from a FWD hot hatch to a RWD coupe, I don't see too many options to really improve on my driving experience. This is especially true as modern cars are more and more muted.

I've been thinking of an older car that will also serve as a project car (might replace the BRZ, might join it), and a Series 2 Lotus Elise piqued my interest. Question is, how do I get a test drive on one to know if I like it? They are not sold as new, are pretty rare and I doubt I'd see a used one in a dealership in my area. I can only imagine the situation getting worse in the years to come or for older/rarer cars.

I'm also considering a 987 Cayman or a 996 911 (which do pop up occasional at dealers around here) and an MR2 Spyder (not as bad as the Elise, but rarer than the Porsches).

How do people test drive these (and older) cars? I'd hate to wait until a local car's on sale only to test drive it without intention of buying it. I know Turo might be an option (specifically has a couple of Exiges, but nothing close by). Am I missing anything?

BTW, for the more mundane cars that I think of getting used in the future I test drive new cars in the dealership a few years ahead of the purchase. So if I know I'll be in the market in a couple of years for a 2-3 years old SUV I'll test drive the options today, write down my impressions (I love spreadsheets) and will be ready to shop in 2 years time.

I don't understand why you need to test drive something if you are not prepared to buy it. If a car comes up for sale and you're ready to buy it, go test drive it. If you don't like it, move on.

You must have an astounding amount of free time if you're test driving the "mundane cars" that you might be in the market for in a few years.

^^I would join online forums that specialize in those cars, to learn more about them, but more importantly (in context of this topic) to start interacting with people that own those vehicles. By doing that you can probably build enough trust with charitable individuals that live near you. At least enough to look over a car in detail and ride shotgun. All likelihood enough trust to have some let you drive their cars.

The reason is that I don't want to test drive a particular car for buying, I want to test drive a car to device which car I like. For example, if in 5 years I want to replace the BRZ with something more fun and decide I want to check out a Series 2 Elise, a 987 Cayman and a MR2 Spyder, these cars would be 15 to 25 years old. Say I see an Elise for sale, test drive it and like it, how do I know I won't like the MR2 better? Or the Cayman? So I decide to wait until I can get a test drive on them as well. While I'm waiting the Elise is sold. I would much rather know what I'll want and then wait for a good car to show up.

That's a great suggestion, but does involve a lot of effort, especially if I'm interested in multiple cars. I've actually saw a few posts like that in the past in enthusiast forums and the responses were fairly supportive. Thanks!

It's not really that odd. I do it myself, and I know others that do it. A car purchase is not a simple process for me. If I'm planning now for a car I'll probably buy in two or three years I'll want to test drive it now so I know if it's the right target.

Sometimes I'll drive a car and then know not to waste my time on it, or that I may have to wait for a new generation. (talking to you Camaro). A lot of times I'll drive it first, then do the research to determine if it's "all that". If I don't like the way it drives, no reason to do the research.

The only issue with test driving a 15 to 25 year old car is that the one you test could be very, very different from the one you buy. You could be totally deceived one way or the other and not buy something great or think you like it just to find the one you bought sucks.


I can understand the driving new ones but that could still wait until you are actually shopping not a couple of years ahead. Things can change a pile in one model year.

Agree, how can you know you want to invest in a car unless you drive it? It's not all about vetting any issues. I try to be a bit more sensitive with private sellers as I'm taking up someone's personal time - but I have no hesitation with trying out a car from a dealer. It's why they're there and it's not a crime to test drive any car (even though some snotty sales folks may act like it is).

That's a very good piece of advice, thank you! Obviously I'll take any prospective buy for a spin, but it'll help to keep in mind that older cars have more variation in how they drive. This also works in reverse - I might drive an Elise and not like it, only to discover that it was due to something unique to the specific car I drove.

Fully agreed, but with older cars it gets much harder to find them in dealerships. I haven't bought a private party car in my life, so don't really know how well is "window shopping" tolerated.

You can find some enthusiast cars on Turo, but a lot of them got taken down last year presumably because some terms of service changed and there was an exodus of owners.

I rented a Camaro, ND Miata, and Jag F-type on Turo. In LA in particular there is a massive selection of cars. I think it's very useful to try a lot of different cars like Dadhawk said. I certainly didn't expect the F-type to be as fun as it was.

Personally, I'm trying to find an AP1 S2000 to try out which is proving harder than I expected. On the East Coast, since I have no car, going somewhere away from the city to test drive a car is a whole-day commitment, or a very large amount of money spent on uber/Lyft :/ I'd also like to try a Lotus Elise.

FOMO.

one can't be happy if they're always worrying about what they don't have...

Take cash, sign a waiver.

I just research and buy what piques my interest... test drive just a formality to let you know condition of said example of vehicle. I just recently purchased a MKI MR2 (1989) after selling my FR-S and getting out of debt. Have never driven one or sat in one (have test drove a MKII MR2)... it's just a car I know I want that can provide me what the FR-S did in driving experience (and more...) and a deal happened on one I wasn't expecting at all and just couldn't pass up. Even if I end up selling it down the road, I'm practically guaranteed to get more from it than I paid for it if I keep it up... the value on good condition ones are starting to creep up... in a few years (if the world is still functioning at that time and not gone to pieces...) they will be priced like the AE86 corollas.

MR2 is a bit opposite of the FR-S in terms of why I bought it. In spite of the Subaru motor, I bought the FR-S because it was a new modern sportscar with a FR chassis focused on handling and open to mods to set it up however you wanted. I bought the MK1 MR2 specifically because of that 16 valve 4AGE motor it has (have always wanted a car with one) and, though mid-engined is not my preferred drivetrain layout, it is a classic analog sports car with no ABS or powered steering and cable throttle linkage (how I miss mechanical throttles!) I would have preferred an AE86 notchback with the same motor... they simply are too expensive for a good example.

Basically with the MR2, it's a classic car and I will be it's custodian ... a little bit different relationship from buying a brand new FR-S and being it's owner. I personally don't need a test drive in a classic car to be a custodian... it would help in seeing what areas need to be looked into but the current owner has relayed what few things need to be addressed with it, and I'm fine accepting it as is. If I got a used FR-S or other more modern car for a daily driver role that would be different, I would absolutely have to test drive it beforehand.

Bought the MR2 at the beginning of this month and will be picking it up next weekend, more excited than I ever was getting my FR-S even... and it is an old car that needs some TLC (but is in good working condition.) You can buy a used FR-S without even trying... trying to find a good condition MKI MR2 for reasonable inexpensive price is next to impossible - you take what you can get. Certainly better than the cheap trashy condition miatas I was searching through to try and find a gem.

I guess i'm weird. I bought my eight six without even doing a test drive. I wanted a new rwd lightweight sports car and the miata looked too small.

Same with my Jeep JK, although i have owned jeeps in the past so I had an idea already of what to expect.

I had a Mk1, be careful to not swap ends, they do it quite well with their mid engine layout.

And not fun oversteer, the, I'm going backwards.........NOW.......type.

You can set them up to handle really nice though, and 4AGE screaming off its tits is a beautiful thing to hear.

They make the FA sound like a tractor.

You will think your driving, a reliable, old 911.

I actually like quick responding chassis... the FR-S was good but just a tad slow compared to what I like. Actually had a FWD Integra RS that was setup to wanting to swap the rear end out on track... a lot more tail happy than my FR-S was. I do understand that mid-engine and rear end requires proper cornering and braking techniques, having to always be on top of the chassis - you can be fairly lax with the FR-S and it won't bite you. The Porsche 911 GT3 RS is my go to car in full blown racing sims (not arcade games like Forza and Grand Turismo).

Depending on condition of bushings @ 166k miles it has, I will leave it as is for a little bit or just go immediately to the T3 front and rear arm and link setup... it already has Koni dampers with Eibach ProKits so good on suspension otherwise.

4AGEs are indeed beautiful sounding engines...especially in race trim:

https://youtu.be/mCYUhTFMv-k

https://youtu.be/gzA_yj59wyQ

LOL

My daughter liked my old AW11.

I sold it to guy at work who put it into a wall backwards.

I wouldn't mind a SW20

Out of curiosity if your only complaint was a little lack of power in the FR-S why didn't you slap on a low maintenance, low boost supercharger?

Was it that you didn't want to wrench on the FR-S? Or that you didn't want a bit the added maintenance? Was it a bit too much money?

All good reasons but, kind of counter productive if your next step is buying an older project car that will require more wrenching, more money and more maintenance.


(Just thinking out loud.)

This. Bushings, engine/trans/ujoint/etc/etc/etc wear can be vastly different on two different 20 year old cars, even with the same mileage.

OP: FWIW I've never had an issue test driving any older car. Some private owners will care more than others of course so I tend to target dealers instead but that's not always possible. And it's not like I've ever been selling a car to have a buyer come by to drive it that was CLEARLY wasting my time.

I'm assuming this is directed to me? I never mentioned anything about lack of power, I've always been fine with the stock FR-S power level (I'm one of those guys). I was talking about speed of its chassis responsiveness - it's reflexes... It's a stable, pretty safely setup chassis (and am talking about the very first two years more tail happy suspension setup before it was neutered some from '15 onwards...) I prefer just a little bit quicker rotating than the '13 FR-S.

Most everything I did to the FR-S was to increase it's responsiveness... solid aluminum steering bushings, stiff motor/transmission mounts, lighter 17x7.5 wheels with smaller 205/45-17 tires, much lighter custom center exit exhaust, Winmax W3 pads. If I kept the FR-S would have wanted to go racing flywheel, aluminum driveshaft, and Essex Sprint front brake setup along with finally upgrading from stock suspension (to Bilstein B6 dampers and RSR springs [because one of the few spring sets that keep really close to the original F/R balance along with minimal lowering amount]) as it was starting to get a little tired at 63k miles. I didn't really want to get rid of my FR-S at all, but did so to get out of debt because it was the quickest, easiest way to do so. It was the logical thing to do... but not something I wanted to do.

I don't really do forced induction... simply have a thing for quick revving N/A motors in a light chassis that has good reflexes. Was into Honda's for the longest time, before they went away from double wishbone suspension setup and started getting fatter and sloppier. Mainly concentrate on removing weight and quickening the responsiveness of the chassis. The closer can get it to a racing kart in responsiveness the more I like it. Was not actually looking to get the MR2, it just happened and I went with it...because couldn't say no to this deal. Was really just looking to get a couple thousand dollar beater vehicle with no ABS, no traction/stability system, and fully mechanical inputs... because after selling the FR-S was one of the first time ever since driving that I only had a single vehicle... and I really don't like only having 1 vehicle.

Mostly been a truck + fun car kind of vehicle owner so started looking for cheap fun cars. The MR2 just happened to be the right car at the right time for the right price. I don't need speed or power to enjoy a car - I do need it to react quickly and precisely to inputs though... the more telepathic and lightning quick it's responsiveness the more I'll like it, though would be nice to have a good sense of planted stability versus skittishness. That's kind of where the FR-S rides the line - a responsive, quick chassis but with good stability and planted feel after a little bit of work put into it.

You sound like a great candidate for RENTING the cars you want to experience. I don't think a simple "test drive" will be enough for you.

What's the differentiation between wasting someone's time at a dealer vs a private seller? Aren't you wasting their time either way?

While I totally get that the internet loves to hate dealers, that salesperson is a person too.

Find a local group of enthusiasts who you both trust and trust you. With enough trust, they'll happily allow you to drive their cars and even push it within your limits. Don't be shy about returning the favor. If you're not comfortable handing over your keys, don't expect them to be comfortable handing over theirs.

I'd say there's an expectation from a dealer to have a test drive, while with a private party the expectation isn't typically there. This is especially true of new cars (obviously), but also for used cars. It's a part of a dealer's "job description" - allow test drives even for "non-serious" buyers. Window shopping for cars includes not just sitting in them, but also driving them.
Also, it's not just a matter of "wasting their time", but also (more so?) about a stranger driving your car.

Yep, totally agree with that. Turo would probably have been a boon for me had I lived in a more cosmopolitan area. Sadly I'm in the heart of the Midwest, so pickings are slim. I'll happily invest $100-$200 for a few hours with a car on my short list (Cayman, Elise, MR2).

I guess that's the main reason behind my hesitation to ask a "window shopping test drive" from a private party - I wouldn't want to give somebody a "joy ride" on my car. Thanks for the insights!

Hagerty Driveshare is another option for renting a wide variety of vehicles for hours/days at a time.

Well my point was salespeople are there to sell cars, and part of their job is to show cars. They know that you're not necessarily going to buy the car you test drive, and they are there all day to show cars in the homes that someone does buy the car. Private sellers, while they're somewhat obliged to put time into showing their car if they have any hopes of selling, they are not employed 8 hours a day by a dealer to do so. In my mind there's a difference :)

I'm late to the party, but a test drive of this nature is far more acceptable with a dealership (because there are often so many of 'em, you could be bargain shopping). When I had my WRX, I test drove a 370Z because on paper it looked like the best next car. Then I test drove one and was instantly turned off by the frumpy controls. For dealers, ALWAYS call ahead. Walk-ins at your local Porsche dealer never give you the time of day unless you're dripping in diamonds.

I highly advise NOT to ask for a test drive while you're window-shopping private listings. This is extremely disrespectful (but I know y'all aren't doing that). Riding passenger is totally acceptable.

Why not have both?

Both the private seller and dealer salesperson have the same objective to sell you the car, and both hope you buy.

Both are only paid if you actually purchase.

The difference is the private seller wants to sell you one car, the Salesman wants to make you a customer.

My Father-in-law was a car salesman most of his adult life. He treated everyone that came in the same. Spent time with them, explained the cars, took them on multiple test drives. Maybe 1 in 5 probably bought a car, but those that did came back to him again and again, even when he changed dealerships and even brands.

When he moved from Florida to Georgia there were customers in FL that came to Georgia just to do a deal with him.

A good salesman would never think a test drive was a waste of time, even when they can tell you aren't buying today. There is always tomorrow.

Thanks, great job explaining what I was miserably failing to :)

I can't stand when people misrepresent themselves as looking to buy something they have no intention to.
I'm selling a set a high end speakers at the moment. At least 5 people have emailed me with a list of questions and that's where it stopped, even though there was no detrimental info given.
That is selfish and inconsiderate. Pretending to be interested in buying for the purpose of one's personal interest. It shows no respect for other's time or effort.
Just stay home and fap.

I doubt they were doing either. Most people value their time more than just to go around trying to waste other people's time.

If they were interested enough to ask a question then they were interested. It's very possible they were looking at several versions of the same item on several dozen sites, and they decided yours weren't the right ones.

I have noticed that both buyers and sellers just have a tendency these days to ghost you when they have either sold the device, or have bought one somewhere else, or decided it wasn't the right one for them.

what kind of high end speakers? i'm just curious. shipping from canadia is a little much ;)

Who said anything about misrepresenting themselves?

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Totem Forest.

Upgraded to Totem Tribe Tower.

Not worth cross border shipping, although I have had it requested.

If someone is looking to sell a vehicle, they will allow you to test it on the basis that you are looking to purchase.

Test driving a car knowing full well there is no way you will be purchasing that car from that individual is misrepresentation.

Alternately, you can tell the seller your actual motive so he can tell you to go pound sand.

It amazes me how clueless some people can be.

If you think it is the business of a salesperson to demo a car for you that you know darn well you wont be buying then you deserve to be a car salesman. Please don't complain when you are unable to put a roof over your head though.

Settle down. Who said anything about not intending to buy the car? I would intend on buying the car if I like it, but if I don't like the way it drives then, no... I'm not buying the car. You think that is wrong? I am certainly not buying a car based on forum or magazine reviews. To be clear, I certainly am not advocating for joyrides at every dealer in town.

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