TOB and Clutch deja vu at 110,000 miles
 

I'm at a bit of a crossroads as to what to do with the transmission. A bit of history: At 60K miles in 2017 I had the Clutch, flywheel, and throw out bearing replaced. I was having the typical TOB squeak, crunchy pedal feel, whirring noises at idle. I did hours of research on this thread, reading up on the TSB and the revised parts. I made sure to buy the OEM 2017 revised TOB, and picked up a new Exedy clutch kit and flywheel.

Now, I am at 110K miles and the problems have come back with a vengeance. It's as if the engagement point is impossible to hit. The clutch is either fully engaged or fully disengaged somewhere in the last 50% of pedal travel. I often over rev starting from a stop, and most shifts are jerky. The only chance at a smooth start is an extremely slow and controlled pedal release. The Exedy clutch has never been to my liking from day one either, there's a vibration that shakes the whole car from 1500-2000 RPM, and engagement was never as smooth as the OEM clutch/flywheel combo.

I doubt just replacing the TOB alone will make the car drive like before. If I have the transmission off, and given the mileage, I would like to replace the following:

Clutch and flywheel (OEM parts this time)
Throw Out Bearing
Bearing retainer cover
Clutch fork and pivot
Slave cylinder
Transmission mount
Shifter bushing

Will replacing these parts give me a smooth transmission feel at 110,000 miles? Has anyone gotten rid of the TOB issues for good? It's discouraging because it would cost nearly $1000 on parts alone. Having gone through this once already it feels like I am throwing good money after bad.

https://xcessivemanufacturing.com/to...hrb-ram-k.html

Something like this may help.

I remember seeing a thread where someone made a custom hydraulic throw out bearing setup specifically for the FT86 transmission. I don't know what ever came of it. I wonder what the long term reliability would be like.

Well, rustymuffler, that's got to be disappointing - :sigh:

Have you tried something simple and inexpensive - like adjusting the clutch and bleeding the clutch system?

If that don't do it, I'd suggest you replace the slave cylinder, to see if it's bad.

Good luck.

Looks like they ended up making it, but it’s currently sold out and I’m unsure if they’ll make more. I can’t imagine they made/sold too many, considering the $600 price tag.

Do you hear any noises when your clutch is fully pressed to the floor when you are sitting at a stop light?

Another part of interest to look at is the “snout” that the TOB sits on. I think it’s connected to the Transmission input shaft bearing, and if that’s out of whack that could cause TOB wear, but you’d hear it rattling around in neutral...

Good luck though, I’m at 155k miles and on my 2nd Exedy clutch. OEM lasted 70k until failure/explosion, and I replaced my replacement Exedy clutch at 130k because I was hearing noises and just didn’t want to deal with another failure. My current Exedy setup has the updated TOB and Verus clutch fork and things have been great so far.

Thanks for the advice I did actually go so far as to replace and bleed the slave cylinder last year, but that didn’t seem to make much of a difference.. that’s why I came back to thinking it was the throw out bearing

I don’t actually get any noise with the clutch fully pressed in, or fully out for that matter. The noise is the squeak while the clutch pedal is in motion. That and there’s a significant resistance pressing the pedal, and also a bit less noticeably so while releasing that corresponds with the squeak. I think maybe the snout got scored from the original bearing and the grease has worn off, because I did not replace that part the first time the transmission was dropped.

When you did the clutch did you also replace the flywheel? Would you say the Exedy clutch introduces a bit more vibration than the stock OEM clutch?

I have exactly the same problems as the OP. I bought my 2014 at 60k in November and now it's at about 65k and the 'revised' TOB has burned out already. The car came with the previous service records and the transmission got replaced at 40k. This must have been with the new TOB put in and it's already burned out. I am looking at SC-ing the car in the spring so I'm putting the exedy stage 1 clutch in ahead of time. I took the tranny out on Friday and the bearing is shot. Stock flywheel is staying in because it looked great. Quick sand and bolted it back up. The only thing I haven't done (or at least ordered) is the trans mount and slave cylinder

Even though my bearing failed after I took off from a stop sign, the snout wasn't damaged and I'm still using the original one. It can't hurt to replace it though as I know other users clearly needed to replace theirs.

When I first did the clutch I actually had the flywheel resurfaced. It cost me $80 to resurface when an exedy replacement flywheel was like $120, so I did that for my second replacement.

And yes I did notice the Exedy clutch having more vibration than the OEM clutch. I've recently learned it's really not the same quality as OEM, and I'll for sure be doing an OEM next time thanks to your thread haha.

Gitchie, gitchie, ya-ya, da-da. I'm on my 3rd TOB

:slap:

* shift faster

* skip gears

* learn to shift without the clutch

Bubba has spoke.

:D

This thread is getting me nervous. My TOB started making noises so I'm replacing it and the clutch/fw tomorrow. I want to avoid this for at least another 80-100k miles, so I bought an updated TOB, forged clutch fork, pivot, and bought a host of small items (OEM FW bolts, snout, springs, etc.) Not sure what else I can do to make this TOB last.

Pay attention!

* shift faster

* skip gears

* learn to shift without the clutch

:D

:bonk: So that's what I've been doing wrong lol.

You know what's interesting though? I just replaced the TOB last week and the old one I pulled out... was the revised one. And it only lasted 25k kilometers. Something else must have been wrong with it before I got it. Or I wore it out way ahead of time. And I think it was because of the clutch adjustment mod I found on this forum. I now am in the firm belief that the clutch pedal travel should not at all be adjusted. So when I put the trans back in I adjusted the clutch as per this video:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vYJxQyjIhUw

I used to have big trouble getting into most gears. Doing what this guy says fixed most of my problems

If you have trouble going into gears then the pedal probably is indeed too low. I lowered mine but not quite as much as the DIY shows. It’s probably 4-6mm above the brake, not flush with it. 40k miles later and I have no problems besides the original TOB wearing out in the expected time frame.

Hah I had the same thought as you and raised my clutch adjustment two days ago! It's now around 12-13mm above the brake pedal. I have noticed smoother shifts into 2nd. My guess is that's because the clutch is releasing slightly sooner in the pedal stroke, which allows the flywheel speed to drop more between shifts and helps with shift timing. But I could see the clutch height adjustment affecting the TOB as well. In any event, I think I'm going to leave it like this.

Stinks to hear your revised TOB died so early though. While my trans was apart, I had the shop throw in the Verus forged clutch fork and pivot. If the stock fork flexes as much as Verus indicates, I could see that also contributing to TOB failure.

As an update, I'm at 320 miles on the Exedy stage 1 and lwfw. Really loving this setup. It's exactly like I think a stage 1 (or OEM+ setup) should be.

If you have the know how to pack the sealed bearings. I'd repack the bearing or "top off" with some Honda high temp urea grease. Otherwise just used the urea grease in the areas you can get to.

Not saying its gonna make it last, but its what I did. The last bearing, old version, looks fine but the bearings wear rattling inside and definitely bone dry inside.

I also put the exedy stage 1 in as well and Verus fork and pivot. I had the exact same thinking as you in the fact that if it actually flexes as much as they say then it's definitely worth replacing. Cheap insurance. The stage one is great too. I'll have to stick a boroscope in my transmission to see how the synchros are doing next time I do a trans fluid change. See if there's any left because even though my car shifts and drives way quieter and easier, it still will grind, notch, and clunk into every gear

As an experiment, try clutching in a hair earlier on shifts while keeping all your other movements the same (or even slowing down your shift action slightly). When I do that all my shifts are super smooth driving around town. It feels slightly odd shifting like that (almost feels like there's a fraction of overlap between the throttle and clutch), but the notchiness completely disappears for me.

Also if it makes you feel better, I've heard a transmission specialist say that it would take a substantial amount of gear grinding to meaningfully wear your transmission. I wouldn't worry too much about that unless you're really grinding constantly.

First what have you done for mods?
Second how or where have you been driving?
Third did you put a competition setup in and then expect it to be easy on the street? The more aggressive the clutch the harder to start smoothly. This will often lead a driver to try to slip the clutch longer when shifting or starting. This will heat the clutch. Have you ever smelled a burnt order? A lighter flywheel will also make starting a little more difficult. It also sounds like you are getting clutch chatter. Sometimes this is a buildup or over heated flywheel and pressure plate. When you get into the clutch rebuild look for blue patches.
Need more info.


A side note, I have seen many "good drivers" sit at a light with the clutch pressed not knowing that this will heat up the throw-out bearing and shorten the life.

That video was pretty helpful. About a year ago I also made an adjustment to the pedal and while it seemed ok at first it seems to have gone downhill since then. I’ll try adjusting it back and see if that helps at all.

The throw out bearing still continues to be an issue for me, so I think a replacement is inevitable.

If you're having trouble with your TOB starting to go have it changed at your earliest convenience. In my line of work I've seen lots of bearings go and when they start to go, they go quickly.

One thing to make sure of too is to purge your brake fluid for your clutch cylinders. Flush it out completely to help improve the consistency of the pedal and make gears easier to grab, especially with the clutch pedal properly adjusted like in the video. That's what worked for me.

Unfortunately, whatever condition I bought the vehicle in has seemed to worn the synchros down considerably, as well as taking out the revised TOB. I just ordered a new transmission and the Synchrotech carbon synchros that I'm going to install in the new unit and rebuild it. Gonna be awesome!

The twins have dedicated clutch fluid that is separate from the brake fluid.

Oh, I reckon he knows that - ;)

Maybe he should have left out the word "brake" when referring to the clutch fluid - :iono:

Oh I guess brake fluid and clutch fluid are the same anyways.

Has anyone tried the SKF bearing N4111? Seems to be the same part according to Rock Auto.

What I did was go to my local Toyota dealer and ask for part SU00307349. This is the new TOB and is cheaper through them. I think it cost me $40 CAD So probably $30 USD