Advice for a possible purchase
 

Let me start of by saying I just made this account solely for advice and suggestions before I commit to purchasing a used 2013 MT Scion FR-S.

Some quick info about myself.
I'm 22, I live in Los Angeles and I'm currently living with my parents. I'm working at restaurant earning minimum wage. I don't have my license and I have very little driving experience(0 experience with MT). My current transportation consist of Ubering/Lyft to work, friends, etc.
I have about $9,000 saved up over the past year + stimulus check + some unemployment money(EDD) due to Covid-19 but luckily I got my hours back.

For the past 3 years I've been very interested in the 86 platform. Great looking sports car and somewhat affordable consider my current financial state.

Sunday(6/9/20) I saw a 2013 MT Scion FRS with 42k listed at 14.5k(about 19k with fees and taxes). I called the dealership asking if the car was available. The car was available to view only not test drive since it got traded in on Friday for a truck. Okay cool I'll wait until it passes inspection and smog then I'll go check it out. The person on the phone tells me he doesn't think the car will sit that long considering the modifications done to the car. He proceeds to send me a video explain the mods done to the vehicle.

-"Wide" Michelin tires(He said "wide" wheels in the video)
- After market wheels(not sure the brand or model)
- GT Spoiler
- Aftermarket Strut Bar
- Aftermarket body kit(Unfamiliar with it)
- Aftermarket shift knob
- Airbag Suspension(Owner told the dealership he spent 5k on it)


Those are the mods that I am aware up.

When my dad and I went to the dealership they put me on a 5 day contract to save the car to me. We filled out all the paper work and now the only thing missing is just my $5,000 down payment. Hence why I'm here asking for tips, advice and suggestions.

Like I stated above I have very little driving experience(0 experience with MT) and I don't have a license at the moment. I've been looking into a few other cars but this one caught my attention when the salesman told me it had a few mods and airbag suspension.

I just felt like the car with the mods and price was a pretty good deal, and as much as I want this car I need advice from others before I commit with the car.Let me also mention where I live there a good amount of hills.

Apologize in advance for any grammer, format, wrong section or just something confusing.

TLDR: I'm young, I want a modified sports car but have very little to no experience driving cars especially manual transmission cars also dont have a license yet.

https://i.imgur.com/VErjvLa.jpg

First off, I'd skip the 2013 years since those are the ones that had the recall issue. You don't want to deal with that. Pass on that car to be safe. More reasons below to pass on that car (and possibly dealership).

Second, that OTD price seems WAAAAY off. General rule of thumb is add 10% to the cost of the car to get the OTD cost that would include taxes and minimal, as in what's really required such as registration and a documentation fee of $80 (doc fees here in Cali shouldn't be more than that, especially if it's at a name brand dealership, not some pot lot used car dealer. So really, that FR-S shouldn't be more than $16k OTD. I'm pretty sure they're ripping you off with some type of service ("warranty") and/or maintenance plan, or some stupid useless "theft prevention" crap (useless etching of body panels and windows. Always ask for the complete breakdown of the OTD cost. Lots of dealerships will entice buyers with some stupid low price, and then tack on a bunch of BS and not disclose it to the buyer in hopes they glance over it and over the actual OTD cost.

Third...dealerships know that "modifications" actually decrease a cars value, not add onto. Also, the part of "not sitting on the lot too long" is complete BS. So they're just using that on you to get you hyped since you're younger. Don't fall for it. Back when I sold cars, cars with mods would either take super long to sell to the point we would have to sell it for less than we bought the cars for, or they get sold off to auction since they sat on the lot for too long.

Fourth...please make sure you can afford buying a car given your finances. Factor in the cost of ownership breakdown compared to what your NET income is. You'll have to consider fuel costs and insurance at the very least. The FR-S requires premium gas (91 octane here in Cali) and depending on your commute and driving habits, may not get good gas mileage. I've gotten 41 mpg on a tank before on mine, so I'm not trying to scare you saying you'll get horrible mpg. However, you did say you live in LA, and stop and go traffic really kills gas mileage. Stop and go traffic will also decrease the longevity of the engine oil, so you'll have to do oil changes more frequently (again, added/increased cost of ownership).

You also mentioned you do not have a driver's license. So I can only presume you don't have car insurance history. That, plus your age may make your insurance premiums very high. Get your driver's license first, and then start getting insurance premium quotes from various insurance carriers.

Make a spreadsheet of your average net income (would actually be better to use the lowest amount if your paychecks varies), and general costs for gas, maintenance, and insurance per month. You'll have to do some calculations to break down the maintenance costs per month. Also include any other expenses you may have, such as bills, gf/bf (since dating can be expensive, lol), etc. If the net amount is negative, then I would HIGHLY suggest not getting this particular FR-S (or even FR-S at all given the sales prices). A ballpark idea to get a monthly cost of a car for a 60 month loan is to take the sales price, add 10%, subtract your down payment, and then take the all of the numbers up to the first one after the "," and multiply it by 2. So using $19k as an example...19,000 - 5,000 = 14,000. Take the 140 and multiply by 2. That gets you a roughly $280 payment. That's not taking into consideration really good, or really low credit scores though.


And you mentioned you have little driving experiences...the FR-S is a bit harder to see out of from the sides, so that will only make it worse for you to gain confidence in your driving skills. As for the zero experience with a MT, eh, the FR-S is easy to drive for a MT. But honestly, I'd suggest first finding ways to learn how to drive a MT without actually driving a car. That way, you'll have a better understanding of how to drive one, which would put less wear and tear on the car, and won't discourage you (assuming having a better understanding of how to drive a MT would cause you to stall out less).

Stay right away from modified cars. People with experience can deal with the issues that can arise but if you have to pay for repairs then they can become a money pit in a hurry.
I know you said you want a modded car but since you are brand new to them it is a level of risk that most would not find acceptable.
Find a nice inexpensive stock or lightly modded one. This will save you some money up front and you can continue to save as you learn the car.
Once you have had it a while, learned to drive and decided what you like or dislike THEN start to mod it on your own. You can start out with some simple projects and move forward to bigger projects once you gain experience and confidence.
There is a huge difference in satisfaction between buying a modded car and doing it yourself.

How the HELL do you learn to drive MT without driving a car?
And don't you dare say you say a "simulator".

Kinda like shadow tennis. Haha. Hard to explain, but watch videos first, and sit on a chair and just get comfortable moving both feet. The have someone use their hands or something to give a little resistance to simulate the feel of pedals. That's one way.

I got someone who knew the basics of driving a MT driving a MT within 10 minutes by doing something similar.

I learned that way minus the videos part since there wasn't YouTube at the time, and AOL was the way to the Internet. I just observed people driving stick (in place of my video suggestion). Never drove a stick once before. Then got my first MT car and was out and driving in less than 5 minutes. Got on the highway on my first drive to go to some friend's house. Didn't stall for the first couple of days, then stalled once on a hill at a stop sign. Lol.

Or...
Get in a MT car.
Don't start the engine.
Run through the process a couple of time.
Start the engine.
Stall a couple of times.
Drive away.

It’s far more effective to get yourself an old heavy Saab convertible with an unforgiving clutch and a laggy turbo that won’t help you in neutral, fill the car to the brim with luggage and 4 people, get yourself stuck at an uphill left hand turn at a red light with a school bus behind you, and have your dad yell at the top of his lungs that the clutch is on the left you fucking moron while you stall 4 times and the light turns red again. For the second time.

Works wayyyy better.

Or these.


Syncros? Syncros? We don't need no stinkin' syncros!


https://www.armycadethistory.com/Cad...2381_Deuce.jpg

I learned to drive a clutch on one of these bad boys. Also learned how to pop wheelies the same day...actually probably did that first.

https://www.tractordata.com/photos/F...b01-ext315.jpg

OP, like the others said, stay away from that car. Look around for a 2014 or newer. After owning it a bit mod it to fix what you don't like about it.

As others have stated I would avoid a modified car UNLESS you're buying directly from owner and they are well educated on the car/have performed longevity mods.

People will only trade their car in with mods if
a. they are impatient and don't want to get more money by parting out, also because they are uneducated on the car and the mods are shitty/won't sell

b. something is wrong with the car and they are trying to get rid of it as fast as possible

19k out the door is WAY too much for a 13 frs. For comparison, I was 19 otd for a 17' with 19k miles.

Also, I would SERIOUSLY consider an NA miata. I would guess you can get a clean one for 3-5k. Convertible is great since you're in cali and they're a blast to drive and easy to learn how to drive with great visibility.

My earliest MT experiences were on a slightly older version of that.
I was 8 and had to bolt wood blocks to the pedals.
Had the exact same loader set up as below so wheelies were difficult. Not impossible though!


https://media.sandhills.com/img.axd?...jEbnha53mhg%3D

OP: +1 doesn't seem like the car for you. I suggest passing on it, there will be more.

-Step 1: Get drivers license using AT cars.

-Step 2: Drive around for a year or so in a car that is easy to see out of, it really does make a difference. I suggest a cheap (MT) hatchback of some sort. The FRS is great to drive when you are moving on a road, but can be a bit of a pain in places like parking lots and intersections due to it being low and having a set back driving position.

-Step 3: Start looking for a car you actually want, if that is a FRS/BRZ/86, great! I suggest light to no mods when you buy it.

-Step 4: Mods if you still want them.


My first MT was a Saab... :lol:

86 is a great car to learn on, but Never buy a car without test driving it first.

Also in California it better pass smog first (so don't give them a deposit in advance even though I would a dealer would have to clear that stuff to sell it to you I wouldn't want to have have them make you do it on your dime). With $9k down you could have pretty low payments right now even brand new... although with the state of the economy I certainly understand not wanting to have any (extra) liabilities.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

Honestly the 13s are fine, most of them are solid.

Just make sure it's a car that:
1. had the recall done
2. has driven at least ~10000 miles since then

Most valve spring cars were repaired properly, even the scions. engine failure from a bad seal job occur well within 10k miles (usually within 2k miles). other than that some people need fresh tail light gaskets. If you can get a good deal on a 13, I'd go for it.

YES

or an NB, even clean ones are getting affordable:
https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/d...1386/overview/
This is the NB you want, facelift, LS, with the Bilsteins. A buddy of mine has one of these and it's a blast to drive.
https://www.cstatic-images.com/super...7fb737ccf9.jpg

And yet I've bought them cheap salvage because of the VS recall ;)

I agree that they can be just fine. I also agree that many dealers can actually fix them.

But if it's the guys first car and he makes minimum wage it's not worth going with a 2013 for him. He can't afford the engine IF something happens due to a bad repair (assuming it's even a recall car).

And the price difference between a 13 and 14 is barely worth mentioning so....

Normally I'd suggest a 2015+ just for the coilpacks but...

On the other hand I would fully support the OP getting a Miata.

It's a better first car IMO.

Not sure for all the hate for 2013, although the price for this one is way out of line.

It's high by several thousand dollars (KBB is around $12,000 dealer price) discounting the mods, which I would if trying to buy the car. They have no value unless it is something you would be doing immediately and even then I'd only pay maybe 20% of the price of doing the mod myself on top of "normal price". So the air suspension might be worth a few hundred dollars to me IF it was something I just had to have.

Since this is CA car, it will have to pass emissions, which means the spring recall will already been done. Check the mileage elapsed since the recall work. If its a few thousand miles, you should be good to go.

Nothing wrong with a manual car as your first car, not sure why that would be an issue for some. The mythos of the manual transmission continues I guess.

I bought my current 2013 for 2,500 with no accident damage. ;)

I do agree in general on the price of this car, it's quite high. Mostly because 42k is low miles for a 2013 but meh. I'd rather have a much cheaper one with 70 or 80 k. Although the 2013 I just mentioned only had 27k on it.

That's probability*sample size for you. If you buy a well running car 10k miles post recall, it's fixed right.

I've popped 1 coil on my 13 in 90K miles, that's hardly unsustainable.

You must not track your cars. I normally talk these cars with track guys and if you do track them a bit you'll be replacing them A LOT. My 2013 went through 2 or 3 before I sold it with ~18k on it.

Mine have 160,000+ miles on them.

99.99% of people don’t track their cars. For daily driving and a handful of autoXs a year they’re totally fine.

The coil failures are also greatly exacerbated by aftermarket headers and over pipes.

My son (he is 16 now) in the process of getting his G2 (Canada, G1 is just verbal test).
I also told him finish driving school first and pass test on instructor's car with AT. He finished only theory part and COVID started.


I had no choice to start to teach him MT first, like I did myself.
I can say COVID is the best time to learn to drive MT as a first car.
If you go into any office area all roads are empty. No pressure from other cars around you. Most pressure probably comes from me, when I slightly panic or car jerks too much.


On another note, with COVID delay lineup to get a license now is crazy. I heard G license test they are booking Nov 2021.

Have either you or your dad called your insurance company ?

I'm 73 yo. I drive a 2015 FRS. I have told my insurance company that I drive fewer than

five thousand miles a year. I have three vehicles insured with the same company. I have

full insurance on the FRS. I have no tickets and no accidents for many years.

The FRS alone costs me $1300. a year for insurance.

These are costing for insurance about the same as if we owned a newer Corvette.

1. Get your license. The dealership won't let you drive the car without one.

2. Insurance generally is not kind to newly licensed drivers as is, let alone on getting into a sports car. Make sure you can afford the insurance cost. See what you can get through brokers, your parents insurance, or local car groups who "have a guy".

3. As these cars get older, the miles will start to go up, however that means the price will start to go down! Sometimes it's worth driving 4+ hours to get a better deal from another seller than from the dealership down the road, plus on the road trip home you can figure out this darned "Manuel" transmission.

3.5: The whole "this car will sell fast!" in many cases is a gimmick designed to separate you from your money. Shop around and see what your other options are, Miatas are a great alternative and I was looking at several before I found my FR-S (Thanks, Tcoat!)

As with anything on the internet, take what I've said with a grain of salt and good luck.

I did that with my ex. Didn't work out so well.

First rule of teaching to drive.
Never, ever, for any reason, ever try to teach your spouse or own children. NEVER. Don't do it.

Taught my girlfriend in the FRS and after about two hours she was able to go from stopped all the way up to 3rd and was getting the hang of reverse. Then she hopped in a friend's STI and I haven't seen them since. :thumbdown:

I too had zero experience driving an MT when I purchased my 1st car(Toyota truck). BUT, I had convinced myself it was a piece of cake secondary to my years of racing MX/125cc.
So it wasn't a piece of cake, but it wasn't that difficult either. Granted it was a forgiving pickup truck - not a high-strung, nervous sports car.

Please ensure proper grammar when addressing that car. It is not "the FRS" it is The FRS!
Better off without her if she is running around with an STI anyway.

I have taught hundreds to drive MT over the decades and the first thing I always tell them is that the biggest fear of learning to drive MT is the fear of learning to drive it. This is especially true now that the MT has taken on some mystic magical property that makes people think it is difficult.


Once upon a time it was so common that nobody was afraid to learn it because they hadn't been convinced it was only for a select few.


https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pr...eBazswPw0Az0Yb

Meh, I taught my wife and three sons, in less than an hour, at least good enough to drive one if they had too.

Two secrets,

One like you said, let them know they are going to make mistakes, and it's OK.

Second, the clutch pedal goes both ways, it the car starts to buck push in to stop it, just like a brake pedal, in for stop, out for go.

People's natural reaction in my experience is to continue to let out on the clutch because once you start you can't go back. Once you get past that, the rest is simplier.

Right? My Grandmother not only drove a manual most her life, but she drove her Corvair one-handed (left hand) when her right was disabled due to an operation for almost six months.

Sometimes she'd have me shift the gears for her from the passenger seat, but she often drove solo that way.

I taught my grandson with no issues lasted about 5 minutes with my wife and own kids though.


If you can do it then...


https://media1.tenor.com/images/88e0...itemid=5956461

Was she from Pasadena?

Hah! Unfortunately no. Dunn, NC.

She lived her whole life in NC and KY, and probably never traveled outside NC/SC/TN/KY and maybe once into Ohio just to go over the Ohio River once when we visited Louisville, just to say we had done it..

Are the parents gonna give you big help financially with both a car purchase and car insurance, repair costs, etc ?

If not, I suggest simply buying a high mileage used car with manual transmission. Car should be something with a J as it's first Vin digit. The means Made in Japan.

If it's under $5000. no need for collision insurance, that's if you pay cash.

Just about any Toyota or Honda will do. Maybe a Yaris or a Fit. Even a four door of one of those brands.

New car dealerships don't want to keep cars with over 90,000 miles usually, as it's too hard to get financing for those. Here's where you gain. Just pay cash.

Rare for a first time driver to get a sports car or sporty car. Best to stick with something for which insurance costs less.

Enjoy owning a beater as your first car...

So many stories to tell in later life.