Might want to avoid these guys *NorthernSpeed*
 

Probably won't ever go in a group with these guys, just seems like a bad organization as well as bad community behind them.

https://www.thedrive.com/news/33607/...s-punches-fire

https://www.reddit.com/r/cars/commen...orsports_park/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFCXg7sX6t4

the comments paint a little clearer picture on the thedrive.

basically the pm run schedule is cheaper, it brings out the moronic drivers.

for the same reason, i tend to prefer to use the tollway whenever possible. less shenanigans than the free expressway. always.

This is kinda why I like the older crowd when it comes to track days. People with some serious experience, even if it requires more money.

But with this example, there is a combination of things going on here.. daddy's money and a really bad community of young adults who think they are better than they actually are.

PS, If youre not subscribed to Jackie Dings Youtube, you should. He has good content.

Disclaimer: I've been hired through OTA to time for Northern Speed events and did in fact work yesterday's race which ran incident free. Dov Arnoff from NV Auto who is also the track manager for TMP made sure of it. NV Auto is also a sponsor for Northern Speed.

Just to be clear, the guys who were the idiots at TMP on May 20th were NOT part of the Northern Star management team nor do they represent Northern Star.

They were simply some of the people who signed up for them. So I think it's unfair to say to avoid Northern Star because of these idiots who made track days look so horrible for the rest of us. This could be said for anyone part of CSCS or OTA doing dumb shit and then saying CSCS or OTA is bad. Just trying to be fair.

I can attest to the fact that these TMP events attract some immature babies.

In fact, last event I was at, a 20-something taunted me to "go home".

I think these fucktards use the F N' F franchise to learn their humanity.


I feel safer just driving on the streets.

My question was why was it allowed to even get as far as it did. One on track collision should warrant a lock down of the track and finding out what happened. No?

In addition to the above, I did some reading up on them and it seems like they segregate themselves as an organization for a specific community. That's all fine and dandy, but when you have incidents like these, it makes both the organizer and the community behind them look sketchy as hell.

I would never want to be a on track with a clique of assholes with bottomless wallets and egos going beyond the sun... The guys who caused a lot of the drama aren't apparently banned either, they got a refund and said they couldn't go to one day or something.

Why would I ever want to go to a Northern Speed event knowing that some of the people that caused this could be present.

^^ I don't know but my last experience left me with a bad taste. It's not necessarily the organizer, it's the people that pay and show up. And there are cliques, not necessarily Asian. It's a kiddy scene. Better to just ignore unless there are infractions. I guess a man of my maturity should show up in something a few levels above these rice racers and just pretend to be hard of hearing/have attention deficit issues. Beating them on their own level is too much fo them to handle.

The organizers are responsible for dealing with the conduct of the participants. If there are fistfights and twisted metal, it's safe to say that the inmates are running the asylum.

I've been to over 20 track days, never had a single problem.

I was considering doing some track days this year. These events have firmly convinced me that I want nothing to do with that scene and will just stick to autox. At least if an ego flares up there, cars are parked.

I doubt this is the track scene though. This looks more like some kids driving around in daddy's car.

And that's fine and dandy, but the fact of the matter is that I have zero interest in being around any of this type of driver. I see enough of them on public roads as is.

Edit: not to mention the fact that the organizers don't seem to care at all about this behaviour happening.

That's fair. The biggest red flag for me though is that I quite literally read they would refund these people and let them come again in the future.....

doh, this whole time I have been saying "Northern star", it's actually Northern Speed.

this is somewhat of the harley davidson problem though.

sure, these bad apples aren't part of management, or representatives for the track in any way. i think it's pretty clear by the comments so far that no one is trying to say that. but they exist there, and as the few comments are starting sway, many people are making the distinction to not visit that track specifically because of the culture that has taken up residence there. condoned, or not.

in the same way that HD is now significantly struggling because they marketed to a specific type of person that is now dying off, i can see the writing on the wall that allowing such behavior to continue with minimal repercussions by management makes the ownership technicalities all but insignificant. the track owners themselves might as well be doing all these damaging things. if a track starts getting reviews and word-of-mouth as the place that anything goes with minimal repercussions, the wrong types of people start showing up more and more.

whether or not management condones it on any official level, it will start to affect their bottom line as people mature and move away from that type of environment(no one likes constantly putting themselves or their equipment in a position to get their stuff screwed up by others on a consistent basis), not to mention, as track liabilities rise--all most insurance companies really need to raise rates is a whiff of something bad.

at the very least, they should be ejected from the track with no refund.

I can confirm they were ejected - no refund.

And the next day and the next and from here on in, TMP is doing things quite differently.

good to hear.

Don't let this group of tools dissuade you. At general open lapping you will likely see a couple of people running cars bought with "daddy's money" but the worst I've seen them do is forget to give someone a point by, and be rather slow on track for the cars they have. They're not typically dangerous.

If you go to a day run by another organization then it only gets better from there. I've heard the BMW trillium club is good and I know OTA is good (they have morning lapping that's not included in the competition and they usually have 2 schools a year).

Give track a shot; it's a ton of fun and has some great people :thumbsup:

It was an openlap hosted by TMP directly, it wasn't a private event hosted by any organizers. Northern Speed rented TMP for May 23rd for their Time-attack event that's all, they were in no way affiliated with the actions of those that caused chaos on May 20th. Northern Speed immediately published their warning/message for their time attack participants after the sh*tshow surfaced on the internet; demanding them not to act like those morons and harsh penalties were said to be given for inappropriate takeovers and dangerous actions and such. In fact, a lot of the drivers that do participate in trackdays hosted by Northern Speed are courteous, skilled, and have great sportsmanship. Despite a few of the participants reportedly acting poorly elsewhere, Northern Speed would in no way tolerate that during their time attack sessions. So I would say it is still safe to participate and it's kind of an overkill to look at Northern Speed as if its shady.

I think you’re confusing it in your head. If you forgot, you were driving unsafely without any regard for anyone else on track. Not to mention, you’re a bad driver lol. And I asked you to let faster cars ahead instead of trying to block and impede traffic - not to go home. You’re no different than those Chinese kids crashing at TMP that day

Edit: In case you have bad memory (which you might, since it was actually DDT, not TMP) - https://www.ft86club.com/forums/show...90#post3090590

Also for OP, as many others have said. The incidents you have posted about were during a TMP open lapping day hosted by TMP themselves. If anything you should blame them for the organization.

Northern Speed has nothing to do with the events that transpired that day. The only thing common might be that they are Chinese lol

Burn. File that under, "Posts that didn't age well." Also, that video was PAINFUL! I hope he got black flagged.

Bit overboard, but I guess you're keeping it real. Perhaps there was a miscommunication between the two of you that day. Anyway.


Honestly, for the readers please correct me if I am wrong. Clearly I would like for there to be no organizations that would allow any of this kind of behaviour to exist. As I wasn't in attendance, my word is only so good as what I can speculate, so if it isn't as I say, which it's been said a few times now, then it is what it is.

With that said though, there is definitely a management problem on some end. All of this sounds a lot like a damn derby. And I don't think there is really a full story anywhere beside he said she said.

The main take away maybe should be user discretion (buyer beware), and/or just be smart about what events you attend.. Ex. First day out of home lockdown or a really high traffic day, etc...

Don't be an early adopter when restaurants open!

:thumbup:Not to worry, I have moved on to safer and friendlier activities. You and your friends can have the track all to yourselves. I did have an enjoyable time the two previous times I was at the same venue (I still call it Mosport). That third time it was apparent, based on people like you calling me out, that I really shouldn't be there, you are right. I for one can't afford to get into a smash up.

I'd like to take the Bondurant course next time I'm in Scottsdale but at $1500 USD I'm not sure it's an immediate priority, with a family and all. And

You seem like a real likeable guy and I do appreciate your approach. Not to worry I was convinced not to return to those events. Good luck this season! :thumbup:

BTW Who said I was referring to you? Were you the only person who I spoke with?

@wbradley
Hi, I'm just wondering which safer and friendlier track day organizers, or motorsports activities you have moved on to?



I haven't been involved for a number of years, and it seems there are always new organizers, or even old ones that I am not familiar with anymore. I am trying to find other safer organizers to mitigate risks.


Thanks


Alan C

April 29/18 is the last track day I attended. Who said I have moved on to friendlier TRACK days? Maybe moved on to other recreational activities with friendlier people toward myself and less risk. That day educated me. . I have not made the effort to look elsewhere, just put a lot more money into other interests that I have a passion for. Honestly, I am WAY older than most of that crowd and as a younger boomer being heavily berated, decided not to return there for paid driving instruction. The biggest risk nowadays might be electric shock or soldering iron burn. My judgement told me this wasn't an enjoyable experience so move on. When I get on a track in the future, it will be in a very different set of circumstances.

@wbradley
Understood. I thought you might have moved on to safer and friendlier recreational events that were related to motorsports.


Thanks.


Alan C

I'd also like to point out, Northern Speed had nothing to do with these idiots. Again, this is like blaming CSCS, OTA or any other club just because a bunch of bad apples take part in their events outside of their control. The framing of the message absolutely matters - its a bunch of rich stupid kids who have more ego than brains who did a bunch of dumb stuff making us ALL look bad.

There are still plenty of solid track day organizers who run safe and fun events.

OTA has an event on DDT on May 31st (http://msreg.com/OTA2020E1) <- 90% sold out!

One of them is SPDA who has a DDT event on June 6th (https://goo.gl/vCCTzf).

Both of these are known, reliable and organized track days.

@Frost
Hi Kevin, It's Alan, I was the guy asking about the gaming headset and mic from your Discord chat.
One day I'll jump in with you guys and do some online racing. I'm essentially starting from scratch for online racing. Need everything... lol.


I can attest, that right now, OTA and SPDA is the only organizers I feel confident with, in terms of trackdays. So anybody that is looking for a serious organization that takes safety seriously, these are the organizers to go with for sure.


I am looking for alternatives, as I can't commit to a full season of competition this year.

I've already ticked Touge off my list. Not because of anything that I've seen posted on the internet, but I have had a buddy participate in it, and he said he will not ever go again. While I'm sure some folks may enjoy it, it doesn't tick the safety boxes for us. Everybody has their "level" of safety.



Have fun May 31!


Alan C

Just also wanted to comment on this...


No matter which organizer you go with, even SPDA or OTA, there will always be people that are new to the sport.


The distinguishing factor when I decide to participate, is how each organizer deals with safety.



OTA and SPDA events have what I think is required to have a safe event. They have volunteer marshals at every event, and enough marshals at various locations and turns at each track. I recall an event with OTA where there was a newbie M5 driver that just wouldn't do any point-bys. It took a couple of laps, but eventually they flagged him off the track.



OTA have been around for a while, and they have the experience.



They have safety meetings before the day begins, and even another one after lunch break.


I've attended other events organized by others where there is non of this. Perhaps they had one marshal, but that was it. I wasn't even participating, the whole point of attending the event was to see how they ran it to determine their safety level. Well worth the time to investigate.


While it is unfair to blame the organizers for the actions of a few individuals, I believe it is the duty of the organizers of a track event to emphasize safety, and to effectively enforce safety rules on track. OTA and SPDA certainly addresses this.



I can't comment on the Northerrn Stars, or the TMP incident, but I think something like this would be very unlikely at an SPDA or OTA event. I mean, what I saw in those videos was just insane.


Alan C

110% agreed. It's why I do what I do.

The organizers have to take some responsibility for their customers. It reflects poorly on them when they don't.

Sorry to see you’ve left the sport behind. It’s a good sport for personal development and improving skill but it takes time. Hope to see you back out there one day.

So very much this.

Check out 'driveteq'.. they are quite experienced from an instructor point of view and the amount of Marshall's they have on track are great. I think their price might be a little higher, but they have a ton of experienced drivers.. One driver in particular races 911's (or he used to) and casually tracks an FRS, he can really show you a thing or two about the 86 platform.

Thanks Jordanwolf!


If the driver is Gerry, then I believe he already has shown me a thing or two about the 86 platform. He was my driving instructor at the Weitzes/Jackson Scion driving event they held at CTMP in 2013. You definitely want training for CTMP GP track.



It's amazing all the services they provide. I'm very interested in their roadtrips to other tracks outside of Ontario. Thanks again!


Alan C

It wasn't Gerry, but he's a great guy! I had a small chance to talk to him a little bit when I went with them and he is quite chill.

So I was actually there that day at TMP. From noon to 4:30 was fantastic. Very cars on track, everyone respecting the rules and each other, just like any other track day. Then the 5 pm crowd showed up.

Once the incident with the BRZ and Merc happened and the fight broke out it was game over. People were so ego fired up, short of physically removing them from the facility there wasn't much to be done. It's hard to "control" people when they're ignoring your black and red flags and just doing whatever the f*** they want.

Everything bad that happened that day was just a single group of guys causing problems, and it was on and off track. These guys were going WOT down pit lane after being told to slow down, and all the care for track etiquette was thrown out the window.

You could ask almost anyone who tracks when was the last time they saw this behavior? probably never... This was a perfect storm of bad shit happening, and it's not just us. People everywhere are generally much crazier these days due to this pandemic and being in lockdown.

At the end of the day, if you are at an event and you feel the people around you on track are a danger or can't follow the rules. Then just go park your car and stay out of it. I would much rather be out a couple of bucks and not track for the rest of the day. Then put myself in a situation I feel could damage my car.

This. We take responsibility of our actions as much as we can.

TMP had a rough day. Northern Speed did too. All this because of 5 or 7 dumb fucks.

I was at TMP last night and I was there on the 20th and I can attest that things were very different last night. They were managing the number of cars on course and all of the drivers I encountered were good at allowing faster folks to pass and waiting for signals to pass.

Part of me wishes calibogie motorsports park allowed solo lapping sessions without being signed off, but then stuff like this can happen more easily.

I read TMP made changes after this. Hopefully that's the last we see if the bad apples.

Have you been to Calabogie?

The last thing you want is anyone walking into Bogie and not know what they're doing and going balls out into ... heck, most of the turns. The Armco is a LOT closer than it looks.