Lowering Springs or Coilovers?
 

Looking to keep myself busy during the quarantine and wanted some nicer fitment. Don’t wanna break the bank too much, but I do want good quality stuff. Should I go lowering springs or coilovers? Keep in mind it’s a daily driver for me and I have to brave Canada winters as well, wanting a 1” drop max. Any suggestions would be highly appreciated

I first went with lowering springs (swift) and didn't really like the way the car felt with them on curves with bumps and dips. It felt like the rear was wallowing. Switched to Tein Flex Z coilovers and have been happy with them. The Flex Z's also allowed for corner balancing as well as adjusting the ride height and shock firmness. Well worth the slightly extra cost vs the lowering springs.

lowering springs. Cheap coilovers ownership will go like this:

1. Wow this is just like OEM!
2. Okay a tiny bit firmer than OEM
3. *starting to research suspension technology and finding this thing called "damping"*
4. Realizing the damping in your cheap coilovers ain't that great
5. Painfully browsing online car part shops for $4000 KW V3 with Raceseng camper plates and Shock Tops in the rear, wishing you knew this before hand and saved up a while longer instead.

If its a daily just get lowering springs and call it a day. Theres great springs that offer a 1" drop. I would personally recommend RCE Yellows other options are TRD, Hotchkis, and Eibach Pro-Kit.

Lowering springs are fine if you don't go with camber plates. I'm on Swift BRZ Sport springs, lowered the car ~1.25". If you also want front camber, do it with camber bolts and pick wheel/tire fitments that allow you to get the desired camber.
With camber plates, the additional loss of front bump travel makes the ride kinda intolerable as the fronts will bottom out over the smallest bumps...

I just have springs and and happy with em. I don’t like adjusting things. The car feels good on the track and a bit stiff on the street but I don’t really care. Stiffer sway bars also. I drove an 86 with one of the less expensive coils and didn’t like it at all.

Camber bolts up front to get -2 degrees. any more and you run the risk of killing your tires if you drive on the street much.

i installed coils, but ive walked friends through their springs install and seen their result. id just start with springs. you will probably be more than satisfied, you dont need to worry about setting preload, setting ride height, dampening. plus, if you decide to get coils a few years from not, just sell the lowering spring/oe strut as a package. for the $100 that you can buy springs for on here or facebook buy/sell/trade groups, its a pretty good starting place.

OMG this is so spot on :bow: As soon as someone with cheap coilovers says #1 I just ignore the rest of the thread or start trolling.

Springs
Eibach, RCE, Swift, etc.

If you're feeling fancy get dampers too, Bilstein B6 or Koni Yellow

Aww.. not that bad, man. For $800 a set, it give plenty of performance per dollar.

The list is just a possible, albeit likely, scenario.

Just my personal experience. I paid about $1100

Flex-Z? Or something else? I was referring specifically to the Flex-Z.

Best way to go about it is to get a test ride. Then you can determine how you want to spend your money with no ragrats. Im sure someone will do it for a couple of rolls of TP or hand sanitizer

Depends on budget. You got three best bang for buck options you really can’t go wrong with.
300$ RCE yellow springs
950$ tein flex A
1550$ tein flex a csg spec
Beyond that isn’t worth it unless dedicated track car.

You’ll probably want rear LCA and front camber bolts to go with any of these to get camber dialed in.

If you go lowering springs get dampers to suit.

Lowering springs are a poor mans option, they are marketed well though.

These cars ride the bump stops at stock height, so....

Save your money and get some quality coil overs.

Don't go silly with spring weights.

I wouldn't drop more than 20mm.

Adjustable top hats for the front, and some camber solution for the rear.

Also, if your coilovers don't come with new front sway bar links, get some adjustable ones.

80% of the mods people do typically makes their car handle worse than stock, typically people just want the lowered look, don't be a typical person.

The best advice I can give is don't believe any marketing, go the track and have a look at what the quick guys run.

Me, I went MCA street performance coilovers, car was just my daily, way better than the rubbish performace pack Sachs and spring combo that was on my 2017, and at only $2k AUD, the swap was a no brainer.

My rear camber solution was Superpro adjustable LCA.

The car handled like a dream, till I hit oil mid corner and backed it into a wall.

Opinions may vary

Given that I don’t want to spend a lot of money on coils if I’m not tracking the car I might just go with RCE springs. Anyone year round drive the car and have any issues with snow?

Big issue on deeper snow or on unplown road with deep groves to me was limited ground clearance of twins. So i wouldn't want even RCE ones winter-driving wise, that are of mild drop vs some other aftermarket spring offerings, but still slightly lower then stock.

people rubbish lowering springs but they are a good option for the street.

I have said in other threads that i have the TRD lowering springs and the TRD sways. they probably cost a bit more than others but the kits come with all new fitting hardware including new shorter bumps stops - you don't re-use any bolts or nuts.

the sway bar kit is the same, all new hardware including bushings and grease. instructions are included if you want to DIY.

it's a well thought out kit and designed for the car.

Meisterr Zeta CRD+ but at that price they’re pretty much all the same I’m sure. They’re all okay at first glance and I would never be able to discern the limitations from a single drive. The experience is also dependent on tire pressure. By playing around with clicks and tire pressure I was able to reach an alright compromise but I still want some nice KW in the future

Its a .8” drop. So you’ll have .8” more issue in snow vs stock.

Read up the comparisons of RCE vs TRD if you like. But many people have driven in both and/or even swapped from one to the other. It was pretty unanimous that RCE was better overall vs TRD springs. That’s not to say TRD are horrible or worse then stock though.

RCE springs aren’t going to be as good as a good coilover obviously, but they are an improvement over stock. And for 300$ it’s a great option for a street car. This car is already a phenomenal car for handling, everyone praises how great it handles and that its a true drivers car made for twisties but not straight lines. But then when talking about suspension act like stock is completely crap and doing anything but dropping 2k on coilovers will ruin your car. Cheap coils will ruin it sure. But a quality well designed lowering spring like RCE will be an improvement all around on a car that is already great. Slightly lower, slightly stiffer, you feel more planted, more responsive, and less body roll.

You will want rear lower control arms, don’t need to go fancy, spc lca work just fine. And spc camber bolts for front. Install and get alignment asap.

Looks the same but very different inside. IIRC Meister uses a standard digressive piston (montube) where they enlarged the ports for more flow. Flex-Z is a twin tube like the kW. There are going to be noticeable difference in damping just based on this one difference, nevermind the valving.

Do you still have the Meisters on the car?

OP if you REALLY wanna save money. Get a used set of springs and chop a half to one coil off. Or do it to your existing one. One coil off the OE spring should still have some decent preload on it with slight lowering effect without compromising the coilover assembly.
Old skool style. With a "K."

You probably won't need aftermarket rear control arms. Especially if you go with something like TRD or even RCE yellows which only lower ~3/4".

The Swift BRZ Sport springs on my car brought it down 1.25", and rear camber went up to about -2.5 degrees. Which is fine for me as I track the car. And anyway, that much camber isn't terrible for tire wear as long as toe is kept reasonably near zero.

It depends on your definition of “need” he can get away without it sure. But even factory alignment is pretty off and uneven side to side and messing with the suspension removing it and adding springs is going to mess with it even more. A custom alignment is really needed and rear LCA will allow proper camber adjustments while doing alignment. Proper alignment can be more important than the suspension in the first place, many people who do springs alone and then don’t notice an improvement or feel its worse is because they don’t have a proper alignment after. Even with RCE springs i had to pull in camber a good bit, and it was really uneven side to side before. I wouldn’t want more than 2 front 1.6 rear for a dd street car. Sure you can get away with more, and if weekend warrior go for it. But having peace of mind knowing when you install everything and being able to go in and get a custom alignment to your exact desired specs is worth it for 200$.

This was my experience - when I first lowered the car with Swift springs, the rear camber was noticeably uneven from one side to another. It's the way a lot of the twins come from the factory and you can't adjust it without LCAs. I installed LCAs and got a proper alignment done.

Sure factory camber can be "off" side-to-side, but IMO it's not nearly as big a deal as toe.

Lowering springs shouldn't really add any more to asymmetry though...

I wouldn't expect more than about -2 if lowered only 3/4". IMO even street only -2.5 isn't a big deal if toe is kept minimal.

For sure aftermarket LCAs aren't strictly necessary...

Curious, how far off was your left/rear camber?
At 1.25" lower, I was at -2.4L/-2.6R (or maybe the other way around...). For my usage, just about perfect, so done! I probably still wouldn't have bothered with LCAs even if L/R camber were different by as much as half a degree though.

How far were you out left vs. right?

Anyway, even for cars that have some built-in asymmetry (to a point), the *need* for LCAs is IMO overstated and in any case not a function of whether or not lowering springs are used.

When the Swift springs were installed without LCAs, left rear camber was -2.13° and right was -1.65°.

@ZDan after RCE install.
Before alignment
-1.44 FL, -1.16 FR
-1.32 RL, -1.96 RR

After alignment
-1.8 front
-1.6 rear
Exact same both sides.

To be fair i have no idea my true before because I installed springs, camber bolts, and LCA before going in.

This statement is true to an extent, the springs don’t necessarily create the need for LCA depending on drop, car usage, and factory alignment.

But

A proper alignment, especially if your alignment is way out of wack from factory. Will be as beneficial if not more beneficial to your handling, response, driver feel etc... compared to lowering springs or even coilovers, and so spending less than 250$ for LCA and camber bolts in order to achieve an optimal alignment seems like a no brainer to do at the same time as spending 300$ on lowering springs when the benefits will be greater for less, and its very easy to install everything at same time, get one alignment and be done.

Yeah, that's a bit off. For sure I'd try it at the track before investing in LCAs. Also LCAs cost me 40 lb. of ballast for car classification, so not just a monetary consideration...

Yeah, again that's a fair amount off in back...

ANYway, I'm much more of a stickler on toe and have generally found asymmetrical camber within reason to not be that big of a deal on the street or at the track. At -1.32RL/-1.96RR, yeah I'd wanna do something about that tho...

100% toe being off is no fun. Worse then camber being off. But proper camber can make a big difference too.
But to me if I’m doing springs and getting an alignment already even if just for proper toe, whats another 235$ for full camber adjustment front and rear to get it all done same time in one go.

Yeah, I hear you. But if the camber is in a reasonable range, for most people it's probably not worth the extra $$$.

For the BRZ and the Cayman I addressed front camber which is woefully lacking in both stock, and left the rear alone as lower springs gave some decent camber for track work and both were within .25 degrees left/right, well within my comfort range.

@86MLR great advice for a track/autox newb, unnecessary for cruising to the local burger joint.

Yeah nah, I disagree.

Having your suspension, and therefore your brakes, working well is more important on the street, with other cars, kids, animals and every other hazard you don't find on a track.

Incorrect spring rates, dampening, travel, and alignment settings can, and does effect stopping distances.

Lowered springs, with high spring rates, on OEM, or, not matched dampers is engineering poor handling into a car.

People get their look, at the sacrifice of handling and braking, which to me, is insane.

Opinions may vary, just like stopping distances and handling.

Except for the part where on course the car is faster with the TRD/Eibach lowering springs which help the car handle better sure,

https://www.ft86club.com/forums/show...postcount=4586

https://www.ft86club.com/forums/show...postcount=4247

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https://www.ft86club.com/forums/show...postcount=4645

I thought we were discussing a setup to drive to your local burger joint?

There is no "correct" spring rate. The #1 thing that affects stopping distance is tires. Lowering springs won't affect stopping distances hugely and given lower c.g. and less overloading of front tires, should slightly improve stopping distances.

A given set of dampers can deal with a quite wide range of spring rates. In fact you only would need to change damping by the square root of spring rate, so if spring rates are 25% stiffer (typical for lowering springs) you'd only need about 12% greater damping to have the same %age critical damping. But anyway the stock dampers can already deal with total spring rates much higher than stock spring rates as the bump stops are contributing a lot of stiffness a lot of the time.


I can promise you that the overall handling performance of my car was greatly improved with the lowering springs I am on and braking did not suffer at all as near as I can tell...

We are and per your argument the springs and dampers that handle better will be better for street use because they are safer by allowing the driver more opportunity to avoid accidents.

The lowering springs handle better than the factory springs therefore are superior per your argument.

Yeah nah, I disagree

I see. Yep I still have them on

What exactly don't you like about them? What is it doing that you want to change?