(TURBO) What makes/supports 500-550HP reliably for our cars?
 

Hi guys as the thread title describes, this thread will be helpful to those who are interested in knowing just because and also for others who are planning to perform the same as myself.

I’m building my IAG Stage 1 12.5:1 CP rated to 550HP on my Manual
2013 Toyota gts86.

I have the following:
Have also attached an image of further parts that have been installed.
Tuned through Ecutek RaceRom Upgrade, no dynotune.
Garret Gtx2860RS (good for 360HP)
Aeroflow Turbo Blanket
Turbosmart IWG-75
Turbosmart Actuator GT28/60 7
Turbosmart BOV Plumb Black
AEM Boost solenoid, used to run Turbosmart WG Tee
K&N Pod Filter
Direct Clutch Stage 2
Lightweight flywheel with the clutch diameter custom made
AEM Tru Boost Gauge
4bar map sensor
Catless exhaust straight through with Invidia N1 catback and 1 Resonator
Cusco catch can
Ultrex Front Strut Bar

Potenza tires on the back 18” GT Hussle 18x8.5 5x95 +40, stockies on front

Parts I have but not fitted:
1200cc Port Injectors

Parts I haven’t bought yet:
Avo oil cooler
Walbro or DW Fuel Pump
Flex Fuel Kit

I am tuned through Ecutek with MRT Performance being the master tuner..

I may have forgotten one of two things but this is what I can think of at the top of my head so I suppose well go from there.
I have completed other mods but they’re aesthetic that aren’t performance supported.

Can you recommend what parts will be able to handle around 500hp for my 86 reliably as i’ve got the engine for it. She’s probably pushing 250-280hp currently but don’t know for sure.

For example,
-fuel pump
-fuel injectors
-rear axle
-oil cooler
-upgraded intercooler
-upgraded radiator?
-catch can
-Flex Fuel
-limitations to the manual gearbox?
-upgraded actuator?
-upgraded bov?

Can’t forget to say Thankyou in advance to all the future helpful replies.

.

Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk

For starters you should get a stronger Gearbox for 500hp

Enviado desde mi HD1900 mediante Tapatalk

From an engineering point of view, you should probably reconsider a running a system that goes to >90% of your maximum capability if you want reliability/longevity.

^This. And keep in mind that the IAG HP ratings are for BHP, not WHP. Not sure which you are shooting for.

It will never be reliable, but the first step is ditching e-tuning and finding a dyno tuner. get a Reimax oil pump gear as well

I'm at 405whp on 10.5 psi e85 on my precision 5558 ball bearing turbo, full boost at 3300 rpm. I would recommend, or use the 5858.

As stated, gearbox for sure. Consider a CD009 swap. Maybe rear axles.

Id be really impressed if you could make over 500HP reliably.

Engine and trans swap.
Even fully built blocks are lucky to be “reliable” (depends on your definition of reliable) at 450whp. And even then most aren’t that reliable above 400whp.

Either change your goal to around 400whp.
Or engine swap.

What fuel will you be using?

I wouldn't call any 500+hp FA20 reliable, until proven otherwise.

He has flex fuel, so probably E85. I don't think methanol is as easy to get in Australia.

@FRS Justin 710whp... I don't know what his setup is or if he would be willing to share, but I thought he has a closed deck setup. I'm thinking lower compression too, but I can't remember.

I'm sure it depends on how often the car sees that 500+whp for reliability. If it was just a highway queen then maybe it would be fine with a good setup.

Maybe someone can chime in who is a tuner, but what are the limits of knock/detonation resistance for E85 at 12.5:1 compression? Should the OP consider going with a much lower compression to make reliable power on E85?

@Pheonix_gts86 What made you stay with 12.5:1 compression? Just for reference, the new Porsche Turbo makes 640hp with a compression of 8.7:1, and it seemed to be necessary to drop compression from 9.8:1 to do it reliably on pump gas. Maybe there is a lot of wiggle room with E85, but if the effective compression gets too high then maybe that won't be reliable.

Lower the compression to either 9/9.5/10/10.5 to 1
Get a stronger transmission if you plan to actually use the power.
You will just spin... With those tires, no grip, the power is useless. Grippier tires will strip the trans, so upgrade the transmission and get grippier tires.
Again, that much power without being able to put it to the road is useless and reckless.
You will want a vented hood too for heat control. Upgraded radiator and oil cooler also help a lot.

I am in the finishing steps of my BRZ build. My car is a IAG stage 3 closed deck block. It made 400+whp on 93 and 500whp on e85. my transmission went shortly after the engine was built. It actually went out on the dyno. You will absolutely need a different transmission to be able to hold that power level longterm.

So stock compression? What boost was needed to make that power? Did you hit the limits of E85 and 93?

What type of power are you making at what boost? E85? How is lag or off boost power at your compression ratio?

Yeah he has a closed deck block by outfront I believe. And im pretty sure he is running stock trans and stock compression ratio.

I think it is 10.5:1, and I believe he went with dog gear upgrades, but I am not 100% sure if his setup stayed like that; I did read that he was working on a second block. I saw another post, which said he lowers boost to 5psi for daily driving, so he isn't rolling around with 710whp all the time. I think CSG Mike and others here are in a similar boat. I've seen dyno graphs with high peak hp numbers, but many people run track days with less aggressive tunes, and subsequently, less peak power, or they may daily with less aggressive tunes or lower boost maps for reliability.

https://www.ft86club.com/forums/show...2&postcount=25

I just talked to him a week ago on facebook about if he coming for tx2k. And he told me 12.5 but who knows lol

Corvette is a great car, just saying ...

E85, yes.
Running about 17-18psi before storing over winter. Working on getting the cd009 swap in currently. Any higher on boost(19-20psi) and my tires just spun recklessly. So i turned it back down to about 17-18psi.
Still a work in progress , so no dyno time yet. Have some m&h drag radials for when i want to turn it up and run at the strip or street drag nights.
With the drag radials and the cd009, I'm planning on around 28psi.

Didn't notice a difference really between stock engine with same turbo set up, vs built 9:1 cr engine. Same lag, same off boost power.

I am running 10.5:1 compression closed deck. I also have built heads so the psi would be different on non built heads. im at 22psi at the moment. I did not reach the limit of what it could do on e85 but im close to the limit of what my turbo is able to flow. on 93 octane im sure their is room left but we wanted to keep it relatively safe for the engine.

Why not run custom traction control or boost by gear?

Will be doing boost by gear, just not there quite yet. Winter hit least year and the car got put away. More tuning to come once I get the trans swapped...starting that this weekend.

Agreed i wouldn't go too low on CP ratio but like 10.5 or 11 would be way better. I'm running 12.5:1 forged internals and the max boost limit of the turbo before knock is approximately 8-10psi.


https://www.camaro5.com/forums/attac...8&d=1390935879


Im not sure why but more boost = more power even though the overall cp is the same. My guess is that its less of a fighting force as the piston comes up so less power is waited on the compression stroke. More power in boost less power out of boost.

I run 12.5:1 with a boost level that is in the "red" on your table. Knock is definitely not an issue... you may want to investigate why you're knocking at just 10 psi.

Are you running E85 only or 91 also. The reason im stuck at 8-10 is because i enjoy my flex fuel and dont want a dedicated e85 car. If you are chasing those numbers over dailyability then e85 can yield higher boosts

I'm also flex, have ~56k miles on the car, 120+ track events, and a handful of championships and records. I'm definitely taking sustainability over numbers.

I'm still on my original engine; the 12.5:1 compression I mention is stock in my case. In fact, the engine itself is still 100% stock and OEM.

Can I ask what boost your running, and is your cam Maps the OFT set or the TommBRZ cam Maps

I run up to 12.5, and my cam tables are bespoke to my car, tuned by Zach Tucker. Zero corners cut with my setup and tune.

I want to second this. I ran 17PSI on 12.5:1 with no knock with a T3 60 trim Garrett turbo. No knock. Ecutek Racerom, custom dyno tuned
This is on 93 octane.

Your making 500-550?
I also remember you saying you also slowed your spool down?.

So just limit your boost to 7 lbs until 7000rpm then up it to 20lbs, then you have a reliable 500.

I don't make anywhere near 500-550, which is why psi is a terrible measurement of power :bellyroll:

Spool is not slowed down. Rather, I have rising rate boost.

I've heard it said different ways, and all ways of saying it probably contribute:

--Increasing pressure increases heat a lot, and it is in a non-linear way, so higher compression can lead to knock, which limits boost potential or makes it necessary to reduce timing a lot.

--I have heard that high compression/low boost means there is less manifold pressure wanting to inject air into a cylinder that is a smaller space versus low compression/high boost where there is a lot of manifold pressure which pushes a lot of air into a bigger cylinder.

That seems aggressive. My Harrop kit is hitting around 12-12.5psi, and Zach Tucker wasn't too happy with me running 91; he thought it was too much boost for 91. I have E85 now. The car is happier.

I remember reading that your engine was rebuilt to CSG specs, but with OEM components.

As long as you have timing that can be removed you should theoretically be able to continue to increase boost. But at a certain point you reach the “threshold” of that octanes ability and increasing boost will require you to pull so much timing that you will not gain any more power and potentially lose power but with all the inherent increased risk of more boost, so it’s essentially pointless to go beyond a certain boost with certain fuels.

On 12.5-13psi on my failsafe 92 map i still have a decent amount of timing although I’m probably right at that limit where more boost is pointless maybe even already a little beyond the limit, i would need to dyno comparison to know for sure. With my WMI i probably have a little bit more headroom left as i can safely run a bit more timing and obviously cooler IAT helps a lot too.

I think what he said was confusing too. “A rising rate...”?

I think what he is trying to say is that his torque curve/boost rises across the rpms like a JRSC. If he is tracking it a lot and staying high in the rpms then such a setup would not hinder performance, but the benefit would be better reliability around town. Too much torque down low seems to be a recipe for rod failure. This with a lower boost level in low gears seems best.

If you max out timing in ideal conditions then won’t it be risky in less than ideal conditions like on a track or on a hot day because then the engine has no wiggle room to adjust timing?