GM Says They Will Dominate Tesla
 

So the dressed their CEO as a dominatrix and put on a show at the Warren Tech Center.

They'll roll out 20 new EV's by 2023 using a new global platform plus advanced battery chemistry and design.

I used to get nauseous even thinking about electrified mobility other than golf carts but now that I have a PHEV on order (RAV4 Prime), I'm paying a little more attention.

Still too many unanswered questions for me, some political, so won't get into my opinions here, there are other forums for that.

Interesting play for GM but if/when I'm going to shop for an EV, it'll be a Toyota with their upcoming Panasonic solid state battery.

https://www.freep.com/story/money/ca...la/4905906002/

Well, the may not dominate Tesla but they sure as heck have a better idea on how a digital dash looks. This is out of the upcoming 2021 Escalade and eventually in their eSedan.

this is why i find chevy now committing to ev's so funny.

https://jalopnik.com/gm-debuts-new-e...ago-1842094994

they had every chance to be tesla, and they gave it all away

Personally I don't mind that they spent that time evolving their ICE vehicles instead. I'm also not a GM shareholder though ha

Right. There was no viable market for EV's then and still won't be for some time.

As outgoing Toyota CEO Jim Lentz said last year, the alternative fueled vehicle market, mostly EV's, will at best be 5% of the US market by 2030. Maybe Toyoda didn't like that opinion, explaining why Lentz suddenly took early retirement, replaced by a Japan staffer.

Lentz may have underestimated that while tax credits still exist and new mandates force consumer EV adoption. That was also before Toyota's full commitment to solid state batteries that will probably accelerate demand with falling prices, greater energy density, range, recharging rate and price of admission especially in states with affordable and available electricity rates meaning not California, the biggest potential market.

Hybrids are another story and are currently the high flyers but the lack of EV infrastructure will be the weak link that will keep ICE's around.

It was alarming though when last year someone in the Supra project said it would be the last ICE car Toyota produces.

Well.. luckily Toyota doesn't produce it anyways ;)

in the US, yes. but other countries are starting to heavily legislate for an ev-only future, and that is going to heavily skew the long term results of that.

sorta like how the EU insisted on diesel for a variety of reasons, then came to the sudden realization what 'particulates' are, and now want to ban ICE...

and so far, GM still is intent on "the charging infrastructure is someone else's problem". while i understand the stance, it's also important to understand that tesla is the major EV player they are specifically because of their investments into their charging network.

i'm not fully convinced that any of the current oem's can upset tesla simply because all of them have adopted similar variations of "not our problem" statements when it comes to charging stations.

Wow, just realized what effective advertising did to me in short order.

The only category gm will dominate Tesla in is recall/customer dissatisfaction

For some reason, this reminds me of when Steve Ballmer laughed off Apple's announcement of the iPhone... At the time, Microsoft was finally releasing competitive Zune products against the iPod.

The rest is history and will continue to repeat itself.

Tesla is currently the market leader and so ahead of the game -- I think we'll all be surprised how quickly the landscape will change. :confused0068:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eywi0h_Y5_U

Not a viable market...

In the US in 2019, Telsa sold 192k vehicles (3 models). BMW sold 324k vehicles (too many models to count). If you just compare the Model 3 to BMW's 2/3/4/5 series, then they sold more cars than them.
https://cleantechnica.com/2019/08/10...y-a-landslide/

Model 3 is the 9th best selling car in the US.
https://interestingengineering.com/t...-car-in-the-us

The Model 3 is the 3rd best selling car in California beating the Corolla and Accord, which is amazing because it is a luxury car and is succeeding against other popular sedans at a time when companies like Ford is eliminating most sedans in favor of SUVs.
https://insideevs.com/news/399907/20...es-california/

I don't think GM will dominate because Tesla did what Apple did, which is create an ecosystem of reliance. Tesla does updates. Tesla has its charger network. Tesla is far ahead of the game in technology, in Gigafactories, in brand loyalty, again like Apple.

Also, Elon Musk said it himself, 'any one manufacture only controls around 10% of the market', so he doesn't see competition as a problem because he doesn't view his product as a niche market. If everyone comes out with EVs then he doesn't see his business selling less cars, as if they would be eating into his sales and a piece of the pie from that demand. No, he thinks demand would increase that much more because the prevalence of EVs would lead to more popularity and adoption, which will only fuel his business, as more support and infrastructure is codeveloped.

Tesla creates products with major flaws. Tesla products are absurdly expensive. The second Toyota and GM start rolling out EV's en masse Tesla becomes a niche product. I mean it already is and always will be a niche product with a tiny vocal fan base solely because of the price. Never mind the lengthy history of doing the dumbest things imaginable.



Charging infrastructure isn't important 90% of the time, and almost no households will only have 1 vehicle that is an ev, it is always a 2nd or 3rd car. That's still not going to change until solar panels are able to directly fully charge the batteries, and the foolish countries are going to be forced to change their fantasy pie in the sky legislation.



Tesla will not be able to compete with GM or Toyota when each has 10+ models of ev with dozens on every dealer lot world wide.

GM and Honda announced they will be building Honda cars on the GM electric platform, including OnStar and SuperCruise.

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a3...-super-cruise/

I think your assessment of the situation is poor.

Edited, to restate what Irace said....

I think Lentz got it right. Tesla sales of all models was <1.2% of the total market in 2019 and nationwide Model 3 was down 38% to a little more than half of Corolla sales.

https://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2019-u...ures-by-model/

And Tesla volatile financials aren't the most inspiring especially when their biggest market, China, is having so many problems.

https://www.marketwatch.com/investin...sla/financials

Because people are going to buy the Model Y.

I wanted to make a point about the Y being more expensive and as long as they continue with the "luxury model" model their sales has a more limited market, then Tesla sent me on a tangent.

So, went to Tesla's site just to what a Model Y configures out to in price. I couldn't get past the first page because they are still doing the "gas savings" cost crap in their pricing.

Sorry, there is nothing valid about this. Even with ICE you could do this. Take the car with the worst fuel economy, figure out how much your model will "save" you over time because it gets better gas mileage, then include that as a "discount".

Come on Tesla, play it straight.

Whenever gm announces new products, tow truck drivers raise a cheer.

My multiple GM products that have had 200K+ mostly trouble free miles on them wish to disagree.

Tesla reads article, “GM says they will dominate Tesla”...Ok boomer.

I never had a problem with that. What I do have a problem with is how hard it is to get the base model.

Yea, at least you have the option to flip it to "real price" or whatever they call it on the site but it's not the default.

You are both wrong. Apple and Samsung phones are the same price. Tesla's products are far higher than the average automobile price, and come with massive defects like having the charging port stick to the car in a way that requires Tesla to send a team out to remove.


When GM and Toyota have many EV's on the lot you can buy now, and Tesla still has a waiting list to get a product that might still have flaws at the delivery, or a new product with any untold number of massive issues like the roof leaking, the door handles not working etc, Tesla will be relegated to being a niche automaker, like Bentley is now. They will still sell cars, but only to their specific fan base. Exactly as it is now.


Btw, Apple sold like crazy before anyone else made a smart phone. Tesla has never sold like crazy. They cannot even make enough of them to sell what are ordered in a reasonable time frame.


You can choose to ignore Telsa's vast quality problems, and Tesla can refuse to acknowledge them, but normal people see the proof and want no part of that crap. They cannot even make a car that an auto journalist orders perfect. How stupid can a company be?

I still think your assessment of the situation is poor.

have you seen this?
https://jalopnik.com/tesla-model-y-d...ere-1842698386

they're saying that tesla appears to be adapting with every new model pretty well.

tesla's main problem has always been that they insist on starting from the ground and ignoring that anyone else has attempted to tackle similar problems. as a result, they hit the same snags everyone else hit, but they're doing so in a more modern era, where such mistakes are more obvious, and less acceptable.

i believe that gm will eventually outsell tesla, but not in the same market space. it is and has been interesting to watch tesla attempt to move downmarket with their product selection, while every business plan in the world involves moving products upmarket.

the people that want a tesla are not really the same as the people that want a gm. same with toyota.

it's like an article proclaiming "pizza to outsell kobe steak" the headline isn't wrong, it just pays no attention to the metrics or reality of how and why more people will buy pizza than kobe steak.

LOLZ, Chevy Bolt has been around longer than Model 3
Since 2017.

I have been watching a few of Monroe's videos on the Model Y teardown. Overall, he seems to be very impressed. The car isn't problem free, but he is often giving it praises above anything he has ever seen in the past.

Tesla is designing the cars to last a million miles. Many people would not use a car that long, but if they did accomplish such a thing, it might cannibalize vehicle sales in general, yet this might be the plan all along.

Will the batteries last for the full million?

Saw on TV ads for 84 month payment schemes for new cars. That's 7 years.
Might as well lease. They'll wear out well before they're paid off.

it's not all that different historically from the other car companies, just on a different timeline.

way back, all the automakers did build stuff to last. then around the 50-60's, they realized that 'planned obsolescence' could be spun to their advantage, which helped spur import companies to come into the market later and easily be a higher quality.. of which, they're still fighting somewhat today, though all companies have come leaps and bounds with all of it.

The loss depends on the frequency and recharge vs discharge percentage and only charging to 80% versus charging to 100% all the time, etc. Teslas with 400,000 miles on them that were used for taxis, which regularly charge to 100% and often, show more degradation or loss of capacity than the average battery. The capacity drops the most right away then tapers off some.

In 500,000 miles, if the battery range dropped from 350 miles to 80% or 280 miles then that would still meet the needs of most users, and even if it wasn't, it would be easier to sell a used electric car at 500,000 miles than a used ICE car, is what is being suggested.

https://www.teslarati.com/wp-content...ints-chart.jpg

We should expect batteries to continue to improve with less degradation (controlling of dendrites, increased cycles, longer range, faster charging, etc). With more manufactures entering the electric car game, things should only improve faster. I can total see the potential of a million mile car. Obviously this will hurt manufactures, but I see the end coming soon.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...ature=emb_logo

I have a question for GM.

Will they still be making my grandfather's Oldsmobile?

LOL

I am the youngest possible "boomer" so I do remember when GM had a majority, that's correct, a majority (as in more than 50%) market share in Canada. That's history.

I sold Chev Olds when I was 23, first job selling cars in '87. At that point they had lost market share to the extent that none of my relatives or friends were interested in them.

Compare MR2 and Supra, RX7 Turbo, 300ZX Turbo to Iroc Z/Trans AM. The end of an era.

Wish they did! This is the Oldsmobile my Grandfather drove to town when he was doing business that didn't require his truck (well not the exact one, but it looked like this....)

https://cdn.bringatrailer.com/wp-con...55-940x579.jpg

America is all about their trucks, and protects that product with high import taxes on trucks compared to cars, or GM would have lost even more ground to competitors, so I feel like them saying they will dominate is just a publicity stunt. They still have decent market share, but no where near 50%, gawsh times change.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_A9MEDbqFfk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OkM8PxOnaIA

My Mom bought this '68 S convertible from my aunt who replaced it with a new '72 Cutlass S convertible brown with beige interior. Ours had black vinyl seats and was a gold colour, though we immediately painted it a similar green to TCoat's new 86.

That was our only, and not your grandfather's Oldsmobile. My mother always drove cool cars for their time.

My grandpa had an Oldsmobile too... just not when he was younger:

https://s1.cdn.autoevolution.com/ima...ra-3487_13.jpg
http://consumerguide.com/wp-content/...8281990201.jpg

Boy I can't wait for my Honda Corvette S3000 Z06 EV.

It better be better, but you know there will still be problems. And you're exactly right about Tesla. Musk is far too ego driven for his own good. He could have this all fixed by simply hiring someone from the auto industry with actual experience, instead of floundering around looking totally incompetent.



And yes the wealthy will always buy Tesla's because they don't care if their 4th car is a piece of crap sometimes. They love their status symbols. I don't care how inexpensive they become, normal people will absolutely not put up with the issues Tesla's have always had. Tesla is still using the equivalent of 50's era quality control like that wasn't 70 years ago and wondering why they keep making piece of crap vehicles.