Dealership Employees Learning to Drive Stick with Customer's Car
 

Soooo I'm already feeling like this is a lame first post...been lurking for about a year and a half without any real need to post anything, so thanks everyone for asking/answering all my dumb questions for me.

That said, I have a pretty much stock 2017 86. I have a couple more years of school left and an extended service warranty, so I take it to the local dealership for oil changes and the major mile-marker safety inspections (so that if something goes wrong with the engine there's less to question since I won't be making any real money for a while).

I had it in the other day and forgot to tell them to skip the wash since I prefer to do it myself (bought it used with too many swirls/scratches already), and my dash cam caught the car wash staff giving an impromptu driving lesson.

The conversation is all in Spanish, but this gist of it is one guy gets in, realizes it's a manual and shouts to another employee that he doesn't know how to drive it. Instead of telling him to get out and let her back it out, she starts telling him what to do. He ends up stalling it at least ten times that I can count, as well as riding the clutch, leaving the clutch pedal depressed for long periods of time, restarting the engine before it has time to completely stop from a stall, etc.

My question is: how upset about this should I be? I'm 100% going to inform management at the dealership about this--taking liberties like this in a customer's vehicle is a violation of trust, at the very least--but should I push it further than that? There are mixed opinions all over the internet about just how much damage these actions could have incurred, with my overall takeaway from such musings being that you don't really know how much damage was done until something goes wrong down the road (at which point, who knows whose fault it was).

I don't want to go in there guns blazing unless I absolutely should, but I also don't want to get walked all over. Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

It's bad when customers leave cars with dealers with the full understanding that their cars won't be abused! I would be full fucked off if I found out my car was abused..

So make sure you're in the "right gear" when you go to see the dealer. Good luck..

I'm right there with you...I'm pretty good at keeping a tight rein on my emotions, but I realized I was walking around expressing my anger out loud without noticing I was doing it for a few minutes. That's like throwing a chair through a window for me.

So yeah, I thought I'd ask for outside opinions just to decide what exactly the "right gear" is before I go in there. I have a feeling this will at the very least cost these two employees their jobs, so if I'm going to go that far I might as well do it right. Thank you for the well wishes.

I'd hate it if someone on the shop/garage floor was to lose their job. It's not their fault but their managers. The managers should be reprimanded for poor policy.

Is this the same dealership you bought the car from? You don't have to get service at that particular dealership. I took my car into a different dealership, out of town, for engine recall service because they're better.

I've seen this issue before from a Focus ST owner who took their car with a dashcam in a Ford dealership, had footage of the porter stalling his car 20 times trying to get it out of the parking spot.

Usually dealerships offer stuff like free oil changes as compensation. But do you really want them touching your car after this?

I'd go first to see if any media will pay you some nice cash for that video, and then go to the manager of the dealership telling them how much you can get if you sell the video, and ask what they would do to make sure you don't sell it.

I would seek a written apology on official letterhead where they acknowledge the specific mistakes they make. That would give you a second record (after the video) and forms a basis for further action if needed in the future. And by future I mean the next few weeks

make them extend your warranty, and guarantee it wont happen again. They are adding unnecessary wear and tear to your vehicle at your expense.

Well, different folks would have different reactions to it.

Personally, even if it was my car, I would have found the whole thing humorous. Since there was no real damage to the car, if you had not had the dashcam you would be none the wiser anyway.

I would have a conversation with the service manager with the video and said something along the lines of "Hey, heads-up but this is no way to treat a customer's car. You may want to teach the guy to drive a stick in one of your cars", then I would move on.

I don't want anyone fired over this either, but that just seems to be the way these things work out. Either the management admits fault and says "we never thought to tell our employees not to play with customers' cars" or they say "we went over this in training." I doubt management will take the fall for employees so low on the totem pole.

No, I actually already ditched the dealership I purchased the car from for a number of reasons. This is the closest dealership and one of the better ones I've dealt with. I've had no issues with the service department and everything looks good on camera on their end. It's just the car wash staff at this point, and I have always opted to skip the car wash before this...just forgot to mention it this time and this is what happens. :bonk:

I meeeeean it's an option to consider, but not a good way to start off a negotiation in my opinion. This is a late-stage move, if a move to make at all.

I read about a similar experience a guy had where he witnessed a valet at a dealership stalling his car. He had no camera but he was there in person when it happened, so he got it in writing. I'm thinking this is the bare minimum I will push for, and maybe the maximum as well. Just enough to let them know this is a relatively serious situation and to cover my bases a little.

I'm actually counting the days until the warranty runs out (or I have enough money to just not care about it) so I can really start having some fun with the car. :party0030: Buuuut still something to consider? I doubt they would extend it anyway.

I mean it would be humorous if it wasn't for the fact that they were taking liberties with property that wasn't theirs. I have been planning to teach a friend to drive stick with my car, which has required reassuring myself that under thoughtful instruction the wear would be minimized and that stalling five or ten times wouldn't be such an issue in the long-run. But the lady instructing didn't do a very thorough job and allowed the guy to make a bunch of mistakes putting excess (if light) wear on the throwout bearing at the very least, if not the starter motor as well.

Now the mistakes I had anticipated my friend making have to be added to those made by the employees. That's my decision to make, not theirs.

But yeah what you're suggesting I say to the service manager is about what I'm thinking as well, possibly with the added request of receiving a written and signed acknowledgment of their error as ActionMaxon suggested above. I've got class today so it'll have to be tomorrow, whatever I decide to do.

Thanks everyone for the input. Definitely some good points to consider moving forward.

I also do want to note that some of these valet/porter jobs have that requirement of knowing how to drive a manual equipped vehicle. As recommended by others, talk to the service manager and see where it gets you. Worse case scenario, the media will be your best friend. If a certain person in that job does not know how to drive manual, it is their duty to find someone that can rather than getting taught on the spot with a customer's car.

And then the "one of your cars" will be sold and become a customer's car and they will come here and make a thread about how the mean man learned on their car and they are asscared it will blow up..

LOLOLOLOLOLOL


BREAKING NEWS
Man finds out a person that didn't know how to drive MT stalled his car! NEXT UP
Tech drips oil on manifold and is drawn and quartered by angry internet mob.


OH for f's sake this is rich! What a fucking waste of everybody's time.

OP, I understand your frustration. I think a very diplomatic and calm approach, with the head manager, would be the best way to go about getting some sort of compensation.

The "con" goes like this:
Complement them for taking the time to hear you. Use their name and look them in the eyes. Acknowledge they have the power.

Now the tricky part. Guide them to the conclusion that helping you is actually easier than not helping you. This works. :cheers:

Also, have realistic expectations of what you will get. They are not going to give a pile of cash. Maybe a free car wash, IDK. It doesn't hurt to ask. And, if things go well, you might be pleasantly surprised what they offer.

My dad always said: "The squeaky wheel gets the grease!"


Good luck!

^This

I mean I'm not trying to "get" anything out of this, other than an on-record acknowledgment that it occurred and ideally some reinforced training for the parties involved so that it doesn't happen to another customer. Definitely not looking for another car wash from them, but I could see that being an appropriate level of apology if I wasn't averse to the idea.

Yep, such a big waste of time that you felt the need to waste even more time responding. That seems like an intelligent reaction. :thumbup:


Again, thank you all for the opinions/advice...and for the laughs, of course. :lol:

I was referring to taking it to the press. Figured that was pretty clear from the fact I bolded that very section.
Guess not though.

I suppose coupled with this:

it seemed more directed at the thread in general.

I guess next time I read something you wrote, I'll pretend to forget everything else you've written prior. Wut r an context? :iono:

Oh that one was but it wasn't the one you quoted to complain about.

More along the lines of


BREAKING NEWS
Customers find out that their cars are now being used for driver's training at dealerships!

NEXT UP
Does chocolate milk really come from brown cows?


Lmao. Press will respond to almost anything nowadays.

And THAT was what I meant by a waste of time. Their time for reporting it and my time for having to listen to it.
Some people obviously just get angry really easily.

well the clutch engagement is a bit different on these cars. I stalled mine a few times when I first got it, compared to the heavier more normal clutch engagement on my C5

Is it ruined? Harmed in any fashion?

no but I did piss off the mom in the minivan behind me who was in rush to get home and eat bon bons

Then she passed you and smoked you at the next lights?

the torque in those V6 caravans are no joke!

After I retired from the US Postal Service, I got a part time job at a Lexus dealership as a valet. We would take the car from the customer, and bring it to the Service Manager who told us to bring it to the assigned Service Technician. We didn't see many manual transmission cars, as you would probably expect. But when we did, it was a fight to see who could drive that customer's car - most of the valets knew how to drive a stick. The ones that didn't, just called out and another valet would take over. I find it astonishing that someone working at a Toyota-Scion dealership doesn't know how to drive a stick. I'm sure that the percentage of manuals to automatics is many times higher in that type of dealership. As has been said before - show the dash cam footage to the Service Manager. He will make things right - it's in his best interest to keep you as a customer. If he doesn't , put it up on the book of Faces.

Oh, and by the way, every clutch is different - someone who does not know the clutch is going to not drive it perfectly. There is going to be some slippage, and maybe a lug or two, perhaps even a kill. That valet will never live it down!

My two cent:
I'll be mad that the employee couldn't drive a stick. I'll let management I didn't like that.
What would I want as compensation? Nothing. Since really there is no damage in those failed attempts.

If I get in my car and it smells like burnt clutch, yeah then we got a problem. If not, maybe a free oil change.
Then again that's always the issue when you let other people work on your car.

my co-worker has a focus st with a factory service plan. every time he goes to the dealer for an oil change, HE has to drive it into the lifts, as they don't have any techs that know how to drive stick.

when i was a porter, no one i knew had a stick. my parents were formally opposed to the concept. the dealer refused to teach me until they took a beater stick on trade. i finally got tired of asking for help with all these cars, read 'how to drive stick shift' out of a chevy suburban manual, and gave it a shot in the next customer car that came through. i misunderstood 'popping the clutch' and 'letting the clutch out', but after a small chirp of the tires, i got it under control.

if this is your concern, i suggest you avoid allowing anyone to touch your car, and perform all maintenance yourself. it's generally my plan.

I used to be worried about the same thing and then I see video of a kid taking a bath in a fast food sink. You have a valid concern, and I can appreciate you want to keep the car perfect and you want to keep long-term costs low. It is wrong for a dealership to do what they did and there is no excuse for it.

In the long run you will do more unintentional wear to your car in between oil changes than a valet can do to a clutch in 100 visits. Unless you check your tire pressure and fluid levels every other fill up being even 1/2 qt low on oil or 5 lbs off on tire pressure puts unnecessary strain on an engine. Even if a person can drive stick, every clutch grabs in a different place, every shifter reacts differently... so there is going to be some minor undue wear anyway. I could be wrong but the other than a clutch failure, most clutch parts are considered wear items anyway.

I can get 80-100K miles out of a set of brakes, my wife gets about 25K. Neither of us drives badly, it's just that I engine brake more often. I have gotten as much as 200K miles out of an original clutch and I hold it in at every stop light (I'm working on this though).

You are right to be upset, and I'm sure any reputable dealer would like this to be brought to their attention and handle it internally. Unless they Ferris Bueller'ed your car nothing was done out of malice and I don't think there is any irreparable harm done to your car.

You can also request a permanent note on your account to not provide courtesy car washes. I did something similar with a large internet company who recently started handling their own deliveries. I specifically requested no in-house courier service and only the major delivery companies handle my deliveries. They were happy to note my account and honor it... I just had to ask.

As stated above - they want your business and a simple note on your account could be all you need.

The dealership service (of VW) once crashed my old car. In my country, if a car has a paint on any part of it, people think the car has been involved in a very, very serious accident; so the price diminishment is insane. (And if a piece is changed.. Oh my god! The car must have gone through an apocalyptic zombie war!) Anyway, they were going to paint a rather large piece, so I demanded them to pay my lost value, or I'll sue them.

The man said: "if you do that, we would claim that you had already crashed your car before you came here. Also you know how the justice system works; you would wait for years, and spend too much time and money, and at the end you would get nothing. So, I offer you a free spoiler. Just take it. Feel lucky that you have it."

This talk might sound you like a threatening. However it is not. He just told the truth. A friend of mine bought a brand new BMW and had a transmission issue in a few weeks. The dealer offered to change the transmission, but my friend wanted them to give a new, untouched car. The court lasted 2 years (if not more) and during this time, according to his lawyer's advice he did not took back the car from the dealer. So he had no car for 2 years! At the end, my friend gave up and get the car back. No tranny change was made (I don't remember if it was his choice) and still using it like that.

So I accepted the spoiler offer. Then go and have a chat with the service guy (we call them master) who would repair my car. I admire those guys. Anyway, maybe he liked me, or maybe for another reason, after a while they called me and said: "our master used some vacuum technique and, the problem is gone without a painting!" And they gave me the spoiler as well..

And OP, sorry for trolling your thread :D Cheers..