First Suspension mod help.
 

Hello all,
I am looking into doing a suspension mod where I have some adjustablity. I have never done this type of mod before where there is an adjusting component. Last year was my first major year tracking racking up close to 500 laps during the spring/summer/fall on all stock suspension. The first adjustable mod I had in mind was either adjustable sway bars or coilovers.(something good quality as well) I went about doing some research on the forums I saw a lot of discussion talking about sway bars and how the factory setup is great and they aren't adding a lot of value from a handling perspective. This really put me off buying sway bars. So I am looking into deciding between coilovers(something nice but 1 way adjustable) or sway bars.. I don't want anything too complicated for my coilovers as it may overwhelm me in the process of dialing in the car. Hoping some of the more experience people could give me some guidance in what mod I just start with.

Driving types this BRZ will need to handle:
* 0-3 times a week on the street
* 15-20 track days a year.
* 3-8 drift days a year.

Note: a valid answer is drive more time on stock before upgrading. Dont be afraid to suggest that.

Thanks!

First question then is “how much do you want to spend ?”
Look for a reputable vendor
Find a friendly face and drive their car
Do one thing at a time
With this platform, stock sway on the rear
Front bar gives you better turn in
Some Tein coilovers are designed to work with stock bars

You’ll get a ton of opinions
CSG is on the west coast
RCE on the east
Both have excellent reputations.
Drift Office is also excellent. In Auburn WA.



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MCS or wait for the Xidas.

CSG Spec Flex A's are a solid choice.

I am curious how the suspension from Annex works out. I can see on FB some of the guys in Norcal86 are playing around with them.

Any thoughts on Sway bars vs Coilovers. It seems most are just suggesting coilovers to choose from.
Budget:
< 5k coilovers
< 1k sway bars(front & rear & end links) Although it seems rear isn't recommend.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...d0e7f2bfed.jpg

At 5K for coilovers go MCS. 1WNR, front sway only. I like the 22mm Perrin. Get poly bushing for the rear. The SPL front end links. Determine how low you want to go and then decide on regular or shortened version of the endlinks.


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Don't change anything until you know what you're trying to change. This sounds like throwing parts at the car just because you have some money in your pocket. You haven't described any problems you're trying to fix with suspension mods so it sounds to me like you got a flawless car.

Appreciate the honest feedback.

Buy 2-3 more sets of stock suspension. Swap them on every 200 laps or so, because stock dampers wear out QUICK.

Spend the rest on seat time, brake pads, tires, and maintenance.

IMO - Diving into MCS suspension isn't worth it until you can afford (and want) 2-Way Remote Canisters. Their valving and internals on the 1-Ways and 2-Way non-remotes are meh.

For front swaybar, I highly encourage you to look into the Karcepts Front Bar. If you want adjustable - that has everything you could ever want.

Until then, focus on track time - getting comfortable with the car and truly understanding what you want out of your suspension package. Nothing is worse than throwing an expensive shock on the car and not really grasping what that shock is doing or how it is benefiting you.

IMO

Would Bilstein last long enough to warrant the price difference?

The question to ask, is "what behavior of the car are you looking to change"?
If there is nothing you've identified that you want to change, there's no point in changing anything.

Just buy tires and track time, rinse/repeat.

:laughabove:
So - tell me about the benefits of the remote canister vs the "meh" 2WNR if you would :) On what tires, sizes, spring rates, aero setup? Because I've had nothing but great luck and lap times with them, and they damping sweep covers a dramatic range of spring rates...

I've heard similar thoughts from others, basically they don't offer enough low speed compression and enough high speed digression in the non remote versions so the curves are 'better' in the remote canister dampers they offer. The non remotes act more linearly and produce curves that can be replicated by other dampers for the same price, sometimes less.

They're still good dampers, and I know I'm averse to remote canisters but very few solutions are 'perfect' and with $3k+ on the line people like to be picky.

Also monkey does autocross, high compression at low damper speeds is prized, no aero, 245/255 200tw 'cheater tires' on 17x9, spring rates generally range from 300#-500#

:cheers:

Edit: it feels like mcs holds back their non remote damping to sell the remotes at higher prices since other companies can achieve more compression and more digression without canisters. And to be perfectly clear this is from the perspective of hunting for the very best shock you can get and being nitpicky, the non remotes are still good and are performing above my talent level.

What tires do you use?

Best first and last chassis mod is a proper alignment.

- Andrew

I am ran 17x9 340 tw(Indy 500) tire last season. I have as proper of alignment I can get with the my setup. which is just front camber plates around -2.0. Those tires and camber plates I am running consistent times. I'm still leaving a lot on the table is my impression as @NoHaveMSG runs about 10 seconds faster then me with a ~200 tw tire and just suspension mods and a header at the same track. I've bought a new set of 240 tw(AdvanSport 105v) for next season. Note my car is supercharged about 275 whp. One thing is for sure I need to ride along a few times with @NoHaveMSG this year. :bow:

Elliot

That's all great! It sounds like you've been going about this in the right way. Def encourage ride alongs with more experienced drivers and any sort of quality instruction you can get.

Swaybars aren't the devil that some make them out to be, they're just a piece of the puzzle. I would suggest developing a plan before throwing bigger bars on a car though.

Switching to the stickier tires (which it sounds like you're ready for) will make you want more roll resistance and require some tweaks to your alignment. Adding a larger front swaybar will make you faster, but may not be the change you want on it's own. A quality damper that isn't worn out would be a bigger priority. Whether that means a step up to good coilovers or replacing OEMs with fresh OEMs or Bilstein B6 or Koni Yellow is up to you. There will be a time to step up to coilovers eventually and that's usually dictated by tire choice and experience.

- Andrew

Unfortunately, no.

Fourwheeldrifts on here instructs with HOD and has a BRZ.

You are welcome ride with me or vise versa anytime. I was going to jump in with you that one day but you ran out of fuel.

Okay, autocross speeds, spring rates/200tw. What Damper is he running that performs better?

Because on 225/40 x17 R7s (9" rim), 650# front, 700# rear, aggressive aero running road course - the 2WNRs are pretty dang smooth - IMO of course ;) Having driven my car and another similar setup on JRZs with remotes, there wasn't a hill of beans difference I could discern...

Amazing piece of information, thanks, 200 laps are nothing.
Recalculating my maintenance and mods plan.

iirc mcs 2wr

I've been in a 2wnr car, it rode great and put up good times.

More specifically, it's the rears that wear out first.

It's easy to find fresh sets of stock dampers for cheap from folks getting coilovers early on.

I'm not so sure about this. My racecar has Bilstein B8s because they were on my car when I bought it and I still can't afford MCS. I don't know when they were installed, but my car has just over 100k miles so it's reasonable to assume they have at least 30k miles plus a season of racing. I'm sure there are better shocks out there but for anyone that would not be able to go out to the track after buying fancy shocks the Bilsteins will be just fine.

What you see if you drain the oil out of your dampers may shock you, pun intended.

Most degredation is gradual so you may not realize it until you know what signs to look for.

If I don't realize it others won't either. All that matters is whether or not my car is competitive and drives well, regardless of what my damper oil may or may not look like.



All high performance shocks degrade and require service.

A worn damper, that you may not realize is worn, will no longer be competitive against a fresh damper.

Considering that a set of fresh OEM dampers cost less than a single tire, or a track day, let alone a competitive event, I would consider it a great best practice to make sure they're fresh.

One of the main things often overlooked is the added travel one would gain in the rear of the car with removing the compression assembly from the bottom of the shock. These cars already have limited travel, so freeing up that travel (IMO) is something of added benefit.

Personally, I'm at the opinion that 2WR valving is better than 2WNR. 2WNR graphs from what I've seen are just not desirable for my application. Stratcaster outlined it pretty well. If you have dyno's from your shocks - I'd like to compare against mine. Mine are not OE builds anymore, they have been rebuilt to reduce initial nose-in with revalving and coated pistons because one of the main issues you pointed out - dramatic range of valving is not preferred. I'd rather have 10 usable clicks for my given spring rate and setup vs 2

Finally, something often overlooked but 2WRs have a schrader valve which allows for gas pressure adjustments via a N2 bottle. Changing gas pressure can help fine tune setups onsite.


Just IMO/YMMV - I simply was stating if you're spending that amount of money, it may be worth saving up a bit more for some stuff that I think is of added benefit.

Setup - 400/350, 17x9, AO52s (I just picked up some scrub R7s for HPDEs). Non-Aero since I'm still legal STX setup but I'll be doing TT this year.

FWIW - My laps at Mid-Ohio Club Course in Oct (50F ambient) on BFG Rivals were 2 seconds quicker than an AER FRS w/Aero when they ran in September. I think we can all agree driver mod will make any shock platform work /shrug

I have Bilsteins, not OEM dampers. It was implied that Bilsteins do not have adequate longevity. The set on my car has been in service for quite some time and was still competitive with new Bilsteins throughout the season. Type and age of tires is a much bigger deal in terms of competitiveness.

Obviously, the car would be less competitive if the dampers are worn. The car would also be faster with higher end dampers that are rebuilt every season, but I don't have the resources for that.

Bilsteins make a good starting point for others with limited resources and it's unlikely that the service life is shorter than more expensive options. They are certainly adequate for the casual track day participant or even uses beyond that.

I am of the belief that any damper, whether a BC Racing, Tein, JRZ, or Penske, or any other brand, should be serviced every 25-50 performance driving hours or 30k miles, because they will ALL be compromised by then.

It's an unfortunate consequence of having such a short body in the rear of the car, and even with remote reservoirs, will still cause the rear to degrade quickly.

This is shock oil from a auto-x only car, that was only driven for 2 seasons. New oil is bright amber.

https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...b0&oe=5E8FFA77.

Where can I find them so cheap?

Your local facebook buy/sell group for 86's.

Just from my rebuild service - 2 years on the car and 10k miles approximately.

Front guide shafts were worn and shaft had lateral play in the shock body. Minor, but it was present.

The rears, surprisingly were in better conditions. The shims were all in good condition. By MCS's estimate, maybe a year or two longer I could have ran the shocks - but they recommended the guide shafts replaced at that time anyways (which I obviously did)

Do the remotes give you more rear travel in CS/DS or only STX?

CS/DS Legal shocks are 1" longer than STX Shocks that are a smaller shock body. So technically you have additional travel already built into the shock itself for CS/DS. Since you're not lowering the car at all and maintaining OE ride height, it's not as critical to free up additional travel as it probably won't be used.

So, yes - you'll have additional travel still since you're removing the compression out from the bottom of the shock. However, the shock body is already longer so it may be something you never utilize anyways.

I'm kind of looking at TRD springs - basically debating whether to be underprepared for STX or in the wrong car for CS (or do nothing and stay DS). I don't really care about the competitive aspect but if stock shocks on TRD springs means no rear travel then that'll be a pain for a DD on New York roads. The car as it is rides pretty well on the stock base 2020 suspension.

I can't really imagine not giving up travel if you went to the TRD springs with stock length shocks. The SSC setup certainly compromises rear travel.

Street ride generally isn't bad in an SSC car, but there are some expansion joints on I-40 east of me and also some washboarded intersections in town that are absolutely brutal.

edit: While I'm okay driving the car around in TN, the car has seen a lot of miles around town in Lincoln, NE and I absolutely would not daily it there.

Any idea how much of that is spring/shock vs the bound up rear sway? In CS you can fix the bar, leaving the TRD bar "stock" up front and using whatever in the back.

I think that particular issue is all spring/shock.

I won't even begin to predict what you find to be acceptable, though.