Grand Touring: What would you do to the Twins?
 

Outside of the Unites States Toyota markets our car as the "GT86". Within the US there is now a trim level called the "86 GT". But a GT (Grand Touring) car traditionally is one that is designed to be both sporting and comfortable/quiet/luxurious, able to rack up fun-filled miles all day long without any hint of fatigue or discomfort for the occupants.

The twins are terrific sports cars for the target price point. But what would YOU do to make them more of a Grand Tourer without a major compromise in performance?

Supercharge, soundproofing and high profile tires.

I’d like t-tops, or a removable targa panel. Otherwise near perfect exactly as is. (Not necessarily “GT” specific but the one feature on any trim I’d really want more than any other.)

Better tires and stereo speakers. The stock tires are loud as hell - my winter tires are less noisy on the highway.

Also make 6th gear longer, there's no reason for the engine to spin so much on the highway.

Get an AT. Problem solved lmao

That definition fits the existing 86 just fine. The problem isn't that the 86 is not a GT. The problem is that what has been marketed as a GT has grown heavy and soft over the years. The 86 is a more comfortable touring car with more interior features than the GTs of the '60s and '70s.

The most I've done in a day is just over 1200km and it was perfect.

I guess if I HAD to make changes, I guess sticking a few strips of dynamat on the inside and going for quieter tires would be fine. There's already a taller geared car if you want the engine to be lazy on the highway, it's the automatic version.

I agree with the sixth gear change. No need to be doing 3k rpms while in steady state cruising. No need for an automatic at all.

More power and a more supportive seat and I'd be more apt to drive long distances for sure. Suspension etc is fine as they come for traveling.

Soundproofing and a stock arm rest.

Oh, all I'd do is put the stock muffler back on.

humfrz

50# of sound deadening, better dampers, shorter bump stops, agree that a longer 6th would be nice if it results in better fuel economy, but I think 3k rpm is the sweet spot for the engine hence the funky torque curve and current 6th gear ratio (it's certainly not useful for track use or top speed as it is so I'm assuming it's already optimized for fuel economy)

I am seriously considering a supercharger, but for it to be a competent GT it's totally unnecessary.

I actually love the stock seat for overall comfort, but my fat ass is starting to wear it out I think after ~90k miles, need to look into replacing the foam vs buying a replacement seat. I'd rather drive this thing long distances than our Acura which just straight up hurts me after about 2.5 hours in the car.

Every car is "lazy" when you are cruising at constant speed in a straight line for hours on end. No one is using 6th for acceleration in an 86 unless they're too lazy to shift - in which case YOU should buy an automatic.

Want to accelerate from highway speeds? You're still dropping to 3rd or 4th gear if you are not a moron. 6th is for fuel economy and noise reduction. Downshift. You know how, right?

Nah, the best thing about the BRZ is that it’s so much fun to drive and cheap. You go fancying it up and adding weight and cost and the car loses to other cars in that price range.

I want to lighten this thing some more and just put the music louder to cover the road noise.

I have done 4 hrs to Boston twice and I really did not feel bad. But it is noticeable after driving other luxury cars, the BRZ is tinny.

Great Travel car…




No one told me I could not repurpose this car as a GT? :D


Bought it with the intention on driving it anyway I wanted if the opportunity arises as done with all my other cars. This one tracks steady no matter what road you wannado and looks good doing it.


My travel mods to keep me happy and turn it into a lovable GT:


Electric cooler so I don’t have to stop and deal with ice and food stuff floating around at the end of the day, plugged into the cup holder DC port


Too many misplaced cup holders!


My best comfy mod: Finding a small pillow (square is good) that sits above that misplaced cup holder thing.


When the road gets entertaining that pillow goes flying somewhere else…


I could not deal with a fixed arm rest there, too tight, and would block those xtra cup holders anyway to be useful.


Still have Cup holders in the doors just need to buy some tall Double Doubles to get the cups to come out.


Seats : No complaint here. One of the few cars I can sit for a long day and not hesitate to get out without expecting pains.


-needs 4 USB ports…

Fixed with DC adaptor with 2 Usb in glove box.

• BIG USB key for the traveling DJ music .When Serius Xm Just can’t cut it.
• dash cam
• 2 cell phones charging.
• Camera battery charger & a Morphy power pack.

No fuses where blown in the making of ...

Gearing is ok, on my last trip I recorded all fill-ups & mileage just to have something to do on my return. Seldom had to downshift going up most mt passes with the cruse on.



When being really good got a 37.7 MPG (6,23 l/km) or a 25 MPG when not behaving.


If feeling lucky I pushed a few tanks to just over 600Km. still would like a bigger tank.

An increase in Power is always quite nice but would affect cost and do you really need much power when you’re on a long distance drive, even my other shitbox can do a 100 MPH/ 160Km on a boring road when no one is looking.



I really like this car, you can make it to be anything you want … with some imagination or for a price.

This is not a great touring car. Or a great highway car. But i still use it that way. I do a yearly trip that is around 1500 miles over 3-5 days in stock form. To really soak up the miles, a softer suspension and larger sidewall tires would do wonders.

/Thread

It is for me. I drive a minimum of 20,000 miles per year, up to 30,000. My longest trip in it was 1100 miles (700 in one day). This car is great on the highway. The minimal effort necessary to drive it plus the higher engagement level makes it a lot easier to stay focused without being nearly as tiring as a soft car.

I think a lot of the "negatives" people associate with this car are psychological. Small, light cars used to beat the shit out of you and had a reputation for being impractical. Modern ones no longer have to fit that description, but stereotypes are sticky.

Oh, the only other thing I would do is delete the rear seats. Make it level with the trunk with storage underneath.

This is somewhat on my to-do list. But at the same time, it's just so convenient to toss things into the back seat...

The Ferrari GT250 and Jag E-type are considered GT cars since forever.
The 86 isn't all that different today.

I want a Forrester wagon back strapped on.

By definition a GT has to have some carateristic that elevates them from "regular" sports cars. Things like comfort, high speed capacity and some sort of luxury are mandatory for a real GT is you ask me. Having a sporty look is somehow relevant, but this one might be more of personal preferences.

So to answer OP, I don't see how a twin can match that unless you totally transform the car. It would become something else and I don't see the point of taking that route with a sub 30K car.

That doesn't mean the 86/BRZ aren't capable of long distance travel without being adequate. I've done two trips of 10 hours straight in 2019 and I was very surprise how good it felt. No disconfort or road noise annoyance what so ever. Again this must be a matter of personal tolerance because my mother in law couldn't stand being in my 86 (mostly stock), after about 10 minutes she was done with it.:iono:

Adding some soundproof materials and the quietest tires available are the only things I would do to make it more of a "GT"...but I won't.

Hey, whatever works for you, but I just don't get this. The additional storage would be almost nothing, and the additional road noise caused by the loss of the seat back is a nonstarter for me.

Mission: Successful

:D

The rear seats provide significant sound deadening, having made exactly what you just described myself.



Also, +1 for taller 6th. Plus them flush-ish hood pins to keep the hood from fluttering at high speed. That shit drives me crazy.

Head unit with Apple Carplay
Alcantara
Speedfactory Catted header
TRD exhaust
Sound deadening and aero underpanels
949 Racing "Touring" coilovers
Superpro bushings
16x8 wheels and 225/50 tires.
3.9 IS300 rear diff with Giken LSD

That's simple enough. Remove the rear seat cushions and fold the back down.


http://www.ft86club.com/forums/attac...1&d=1346437758

Maybe by some modern day definitions but that may not be relevant to the OP's question or what the majority of us think a true GT is. I beleave the Ferrari GT, GTO and Jag E coupes (both 6 and 12 cylinder models) are fine, proper examples.
One of the best ones from back in the GT heyday IMHO, that is directly comparable to the our modern day twins, would be the MGC GT. Take a much loved four cylinder sports roadster, (the MGB) and make it into a fastback 2+2 coupe with a more powerful 6 cylinder.
(Yes I know they made a MGB GT as well as a MGC roadster but that's beside the point.)


https://cdn.bringatrailer.com/wp-con...-2-940x580.jpg

In order for cars to evolve, definition requirements must evolve along with them. Could you imagine if all luxury brands building GT cars were still building them like those of the 80's/90's.

I think modern day definitions are important. More so than the definitions of old.

Nope. They got defined.

The modern renditions are LB or Luxo Barge.

It would be amazing if companies still made small RWD coupes. The 86 is about the only one left.

You right about that. But since we don't know what OP consider a proper GT, I went with mine (I'm 37 years old).

Let's just say that any twin would kick the ass of an older "GT". That doesn't mean that older GT's were not good, it's just that cars have evolved so much that the comparaison is really hard to make.

I think we can agree that it would be easier to "transform" a twin in an older days GT than a modern one. In fact, looking at your suggestions, it's already an "old GT".

Very interresting thread OP... :thumbsup:

I agree that definitions change over time. I will also acknowledge that modern definitions have their own importance but... That does not negate nor replace the original meanings of words.
Too many words and phrases have become over used, misused and out-rightly abused. Words like rare and exotic or terms like limited edition and one-of-a-kind come to mind. I feel that GT (Gran Turismo) has been so abused as well. YMMV

Yeah. I use it to store stuff when travelling already lol.

I would add sound deading throughout the car as part of the GT build. I also like hearing my exhaust and sub so I think it would balance out

I've driven a car with stripped rear interior and have my rear seats down 90% of the time. I do know it makes a big difference.

Thoroughly and completely abused. Remember the Chevy Vega GT? Or the GMC Yukon GT? How about the Mercury Cyclone GT?
Mercury (Cyclone GT
Mercury (Cyclone GT

The best mod IMO to make it a good GT car would be sell it and use the money to fund a GT car like a Supra or some other typical RWD car.

Why, because the twins are cheap sports coupes, not GT cars.

Disclaimer: in saying that I'm not a real fan of the "Zupra".

Well, I would own one but flip it prior to warranty running out, though I may be proven wrong with my view of long term reliability of the Toyota and Bavarian marriage.

Lets see how the Zupra goes reliability wise over the next year or three.

I agree with the upgraded speakers I guess. But thats just something I personally would like. If you want a “real” GT, you’d have to make so many changes that you would end up with an Infinity, BMW or some other luxury car. It’s a Toyota, at the end of the day :iono:

I would drive my MGB GT for a couple of weeks in order to fully appreciate what a great GT the FRS really is.

Longest drive was Sturgis SD to London Ontario, solo and non-stop. I had food, tunes, a safe comfy seat and an entertaining chassis. What more do you want in a long distance cruiser?

Come to think of it, I recall a trip I made in an Austin-Healy Bugeye Sprite. Certainly not a GT but point taken.

Comparing the M4 to the FR-S, the main difference is going to be sound deadening, better audio system, more adjustment in the seats, and adjustable suspension. The M4 door panels is like solid with no hollow sound when you knock on it as compared to the FR-S, it's super hollow. Too much NVH from the FR-S. The seals aren't good and the body is pretty hollow. The seat adjustment in the FR-S is too heavily bolstered for long drives IMO, and in my F82, I can make it more aggressive in the bolstering or loosen it up. The suspension in the M4 can be really stiff in Sport+, but there is also comfort mode which makes it floaty. The FR-S is always in racecar mode which can make the ride pretty harsh and it's not adaptive.

It's very easy to hear that the FR-S headunit leaves much to be desired. Easily blown away by the HK System in the M4.

However, adding all of this, means extra weight -- which means the FR-S will need more power. The M4 with a 0-60 time of 3.9 seconds and 425 HP and 406 ft/lbs of torque @ 1200 RPM....handles it with ease. I feel that the FA20 is under engineered, the HP and Torque with fuel economy of like 21-23 MPG is ridiculous. The S55 is a higher displacement, higher HP (double HP of the FA20 and almost triple the torque) more cylinders, and I average 22ish MPG (probably due to less throttle to blow the doors off almost all the cars on the road).

Granted, the M4 is almost triple the cost lol.

That's an interesting way of looking at it. My 2015 Mazda6 had some characteristics of a good GT: soft suspension, stable long wheelbase, tall automatic gearing, GREAT fuel economy, and radar cruise control. However sometimes I felt the risk of falling asleep at the wheel because of the lack of engagement. I often had to pull over somewhere to take a nap.

I've yet to have that problem in my manual BRZ, even while driving home after a long day at autocross.