I need help narrowing down DD brake pads
 

Okay. So I've been reading a lot of posts about what pads people use for DD, autox, and track, but I need help narrowing it down to my own personal use. I honestly don't know much about brake pad numbers. I only know of 'this and that has better or worse brake fade or squeal or wear than that or this'. I also use Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 3+ too if that helps. Here's the list I've come up with.

Use:
- Daily driving
- Spirited driving
- Canyon running

What I'm looking for:
- Preferably below $100 (I noticed the DS2500 is like $150, but if it's that good then :iono:)
- OEM or better fade resistance (I used the posi quiets on my old integra and I had fade from LA to SD in traffic. Kinda sucked. Never again.)
- Quiet (The only time I've heard brakes squeal is when they are low wearing on the metal indicator. I hate that sound. Other than that idk what to expect from a normal squealing brake pad)
- Dust? (eh, I don't care too much as long as it's not producing a pile of saw dust)
- Noticeably better bite than OEM
- Decent wear (if comparing to tire wear kinda, where Touring tires last forever, HP A/S are usually around 400 and wear ok, and Summers are pretty quick with their 200 wear. I'd want the HP A/S or better)

What I've come up with:
- OEM
- TRD (my initial choice since I felt like you couldn't go wrong with OEM+ pads, but if there's better bang for buck outside then :wub:)
- Stoptech Street Performance
- DS2500
- Hawk HPS 5.0
- Winmax W2-W4 (tbh, I don't know the difference between them besides what they are categorized as)

Fade resistance is probably the most important thing though because that means brakes basically just don't work after that. But I'm not even tracking or autox or anything. Canyon run at most and stopping behind people who drive 60 in the zoom zoom lane on the freeway.

Thaaaaanks!

Never been a fan of the StopTech street performance pads.....they tend to leave pad deposits on the rotor.

The newer Hawk HPS 5.0 is a good "performance street" pad that I think would accomplish most of what you're looking for.

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Ds2500 are overkill for your needs and they're squeaky.

Sounds like everything in my life lol. I'm either buying top of the line or cheapest of cheap. When in doubt, I buy hella expensive. When I'm too confident, I buy hella cheap.:)

What would you recommend?

Not the first time I heard this about the street performance pads, Any idea if the sport pads are better?

I have no personal experience with the sports pad. I kind of gave up on StopTech pads after having too many customers with issues.

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I wouldn't call Ferodo top of the line, they're an awkward in between of too aggressive for Street, not aggressive enough for track (great for autox imho). Everything else on your list I have no experience with but should fit the bill, I'd try TRD if you can get a good price (<$80/axle). There's another recent thread exactly like yours, read that one.

DS2500 are good pads if you can handle the dust and squeaks. I can't. lol!

I hear good things about the Hawks HPS 5.0 and Winmax. I haven't tried either yet.

I have driven a car with the TRDs and i didn't like them. They don't give you the right confidence level, as in the initial bite is confusing. They are not very "communicative".

You are always trying to find where it bites, if you get what I'm saying.
During spirited and canyon driving you need pads that respond well to your left foot or right one, :)

did you rule out carbotech xp10 for street? theyre typically seen as a tried and true trackday pad, theres better, theres worse, but the xp10 is a pad that is a staple in the community, and many think its quite a treat using for dd too

I bought the DS2500 for autocross. They are actually a bit too much for my tastes for autocross, but they are really nice for my Tail of the Dragon trips. I think the squeal and dusting are pretty mild for an aggressive pad.

I haven't used the HPS 5.0, but I put the original HPS on a few cars before realizing that I hate them. I put Hawk LTS on my truck and they dust like crazy and have the same feel that I hate. Going forward, I'll only use Hawks that I can get for free.

My understanding is that the StopTech Sport is just renamed Street Performance.
I installed Sport's before a HPDE day and bedded them in very well beforehand.
They were good for multiple 6-8 lap sessions at TMP. I'm no expert but they didn't fade.
Sadly they offer much less initial bite than the OEM pads. Okay on track but not pleasant for DD in stop and go traffic. The first serious braking event during my Monday commute was just plain scary.

I couldn't keep my XP10s bedded and they squealed like stuck pigs once the transfer layer wore off, I'd put AX6/Gloc R6 in a similar category of too loud for Street (louder than DS2500 I'm my experience). ymmv with enough hard use they stay bedded and quiet but my car is >90% street use and OP isn't doing any closed course driving. Great if tracking every other weekend or the car isn't a DD.

Carbotech 1521 and Gloc GS1 might be a good fit for that Street+ application.

i agree

i pad slap the front wheels with track pads for trackdays, but pad slap the oems back on after, for street again.

i have endless circuit compounds (jdm af) that are squeaky and dusty, but zero fade.

not that you are making this mistake OP, but a common misconception is that track pads bite harder, and stop quicker than oem. while they may slightly, the real purpose of track pads is their resistance to loosing stopping power when they get really hot from continuous lapping. oem pads literally perform than performance pads when you are on the street. squeaky brakes drove me crazy, and i have enkeis that i like to keep clean from dust.

I'm struggling to see your motivation for pads other than the OEM. Your list of Uses and "What I'm looking for" below indicates that the stock pads would be perfect for you application.

I doubt my experience is any different to other users on here, but when I tracked my car with standard road pads, I was able to get them to fade within about 5 minutes from cold. By "fade" I mean the pad material would overheat and lose their ability to create enough friction to stop adequately on the track when pushing the brakes hard. I actually can't imagine braking that much on a public road. Driving like that (for me) is on the limit and I would never drive like that unless on a closed road where I know each curve and braking marker very well - ie a racetrack.

Have you actually found that you need a higher temp pad for the street? I'm trying not to assume anything about you, but from the way you wrote your question you seem to have little experience with this car. It is not a Honda Integra, so applying the lessons learned from that braking system may not apply here, and certainly doesn't fit with my experience.

Also, why do you want more "bite"? Do you want more friction front or rear or both? Do you feel you would like to not have to push as hard for maximum braking? Do you know that increasing the pad material friction wont (materially) improve your braking performance?

Please help us out to understand exactly what you're trying to achieve with a different pad material.

or you can get street+ rotors for $180 and get that same street+ braking upgrade as pads,but you at least get something pretty to look at


https://www.ft86speedfactory.com/med...t/street03.png

I was looking at threads and I didn't see it pop up too often, but I'm not saying you're wrong. But either way I think $200 a pair is way out of my budget for DD lol. Thanks though!

@Subsonic Yeah this car is miles better in terms of almost everything compared to my old integra, but those pads just weren't good either. The fade was bad and it created soooo much dust. When they worked, they weren't so bad though I guess. Honestly when I replace something, I'm just always looking for better performing things that might be a better bang for buck or outright better performing. I'm honestly fine right now. I don't know what pads are on my car since I haven't had to replace them yet and bought it like this, but I don't mind paying extra for something better performing. Some things though, just can't beat OEM in terms of quality.

I'm on my 3rd set of Stoptech Sport. The "309" pads not the Street pads. They are my designated DD pads. I have no reason to try or want anything else for DD use.


Better bite and more heat capacity before fading than stock. A bit more dust than stock, but also cheaper at about 50-60 bux a pair. Only times I've had issues in the canyons is doing extended runs at the quickest pace I would in the mountains. Other than that, it is quite decent. I've even done a track day once on them, and they were not horrible.

Sport

Not Street

@solidONE How's the squeal?

It does not.

What about just the TRD pads?

Hell, I couldnt even keep xp8 bedded during daily.

XP10's suck and they are loud as all hell.

I haven't ruled them out completely. :iono:

i used to have HP+ and they squealed super loud and created tons of dust. i switched to HP ceramics now and they're great, no dust no squeak. i haven't tried them on the track yet though.

I need brakes soon, I'm planning to try TRD pads with Centric blanks, should be pretty economical at ~$300 for all 4 corners, with slightly better performance than stock.

Does anyone know how TRD pads compare to OEM Brembo pads from the Performance Pack?

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I read somewhere that the TRD pad are actually priced lower than the OEM original part. One person who ran them said they were barely better than stock pads. May want to do a search for feedback from people that have actually used them and have ran others to compare them to. But hey, it's TRD.

I'm on Stoptech's but I think that the OEM pad is better.

I haven’t found many reviews but they are consistent in saying that they are marginally better than stock, definitely no worse.

This is all I could find really from a long time ago.: http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=59822


The 309 stoptech sports compared to the stock pads there is a noticeable increase in heat capacity and slightly better initial bite. More than just "barely better" than stock pads. Where the stock pads would fade, such as toward the bottom of a downhill run, on the stoptechs I'd have to be really pushing. At the track, depending on the driver they might last one lap or more, but they definitely did last for many more miles after a full track day.

Not sure what pad (Stoptechs) these other guys are using where it performs worse than stock, but I highly doubt they're the same ones ive been using.

The TRD pad seems to be similarly priced to the Stoptech sports, maybe a $10 more per pair. Worth a shot. For me, TRD pads would be a question mark that would cost me extra $20 to answer. I'd stick with a sure thing in the stoptechs, since I already know what to expect.

Pads do not exactly increase heat capacity, which is more thing of rotor mass (and from enhanced cooling rate in eg. BBK or from brake ducts and alike).

Uprated/more track oriented pads simply have higher working without fade temps range, not increased heat capacity of brakes.

Some pads......xp10's........transfer a lot of heat into the caliper.

Higher temperature threshold before fading is what I meant by "heat capacity". Or "capacity to handle heat". technicalities.., I'm sure you knew what I meant. lmao

Not true. If you're in a place that's cooler in the winter the stoptech 309 (Sport) will squeal. Mine squeal under light braking in the winter. They're fine at higher ambient temperature. However my biggest problem with them is the dust. They dust like crazy after a few weeks.

I've been driving around all winter, no squealing at all on these pads. about to finish my 3rd set, and not once did they squeal. Definitely more dust than stock, but if you think this is dusty you must not have tried any track or street/track pads. Anything that is slightly more aggressive dust more than these.

Here's my 2 cents. I think aftermarket/performance brakes pads are highly overrated in terms of performance unless you are on a track, etc. I did quite a bit of research on aftermarket pads and was considering the Hawk pads (cant remember specific type/model). Anyway, after quite a bit of research, I stuck with OEM for the following reasons:

1. Consistency: I know OEMs are always consistent (unless driving really hard or on the track). I want to be a able to get off the freeway in Arizona in the middle of summer or winter and slam on the brakes and know exactly how they will behave. OEM pads are consistent and don't need a warm up time. If you buy a high temp performance pad you will probably pay the price for it when you get off the freeway after miles of not touching the brakes in the winter time.
2. Compound: I read various reviews on ceramic pads and stuff and was scared of destroying my rotors. Many reviews with higher performance pads blamed very premature failure of rotors on the pads. Remember, if you buy ceramic pads they may last forever....but your rotors wont.
3. Brake dust: OEM pads are good and brake dust isn't bad. I don't want my nice Niche wheels covered in brake dust after one day of driving just so I can shorten my stopping distance from 100-0 mph by 2 feet.
4. Squeal: OEM pads are quiet. Some aftermarket ones aren't.

In summary, my advice is go with OEM unless you either drive extremely hard on the street or track the car.

This was my exact experience with the 309 Stoptechs as well on the OEM brake setup. Better fade resistance than stock in aggressive or track driving. Initial bite was about the same. Pedal feel was solid with fresh fluid and a bleed. If you want an upgrade from stock for aggressive driving, they are a good low-cost option.

Only downside was more brake dust.

I can't see the break pads.

An aggressive track oriented pad is nowhere near this temperature sensitive.

Hello i use Winmax W3. A W2/W3 sounds like its what fits your needs.
With W3 you dont have to worry about fade as much during ur rare runs and works right off and becomes optimum after a certain temperature threshold.

Heres a short blurb:
W2 – The W2 is a step up from the W1. It still provides a very consistent feel of the stock pads, use parameters are the same, where it is mainly designed for street use, but with a lot more overhead and the most sporting of the pads that are still non-metallic. Because it is non-metallic like the W1, it has no significant dust issue or noise levels to be concerned. W2 increases driver control feel, a bit more bite, and higher temperature ranges and predictable fall off for when it does fade eventually. You get a slightly better sporting use characters, and endurance, but still without the concerns associated with racing brakes. Perhaps the best I can recommend if you are a typical casual Sunday low speed track folk, or auto-crosser, and still predominantly daily driven car, on summer radials. It is also a good economical upgrade. It’s minimal requirement too, if you are a down-hill canyon enthusiast.

W3 – W3 is the most economical grade of so called, “metallic pads” which introduce a ton more braking control, very different bite characters that are more intended for track conditions, and use of race compound tires. If you are an avid track driver, or semi-professional autocrosser, this is where you’d start to see very positive and racing use braking forces. Of course, as with any metallic compound mix brake pads, you will encounter increased rotor wear, noises, and black dusting, and daily driven role becomes more a secondary use. It’s still perfectly safe for street, as long as you can deal with dust and slight noises. Some can, others abhor it… That’s just a choice for what people place as priority. W3 is VERY capable on the Sunday race scene, totally fir for those who use the brakes to 100% capacity, and driving skills to take it there. Autocrossers and canyon runners will feel a new level of control and bite, that extended consistently into very high temperature ranges. It does strike an exceleent balance for those that need a daily driven brake pad, and are not willing to forgo any performance, at cost of a bit of noise, dust, and slightly higher wear rate.