Some Scion Knowledge and History...
 

Hello everyone, I know you all love the FR-S, but yet some people down play it just for the fact its gonna be badged a Scion. To me this is ridiculous and it does kind of annoy me. Just cause its labeled a Scion doesn't mean your gonna get less or more product than if it was gonna be badged a Toyota! Come on people... Enough with bashing the SCION name. I'm a big fan of all Toyota and Nissan products, even when it comes to Lexus, Scion or Infiniti. I understand we can all express our own opinion, but damn if you like the car and the maker of it. What does it matter when it comes down to the badging. Learn a little more about the company and why Toyota decided to make this line. Scion doesn't mean its a lower class or down market of Toyota. Its simply... Well you'll understand when reading this. :respekt:

(Revised)***One Solution for EVERYONE... Buy the Subaru version, Good Luck if it comes to the States and stop complaining!***

Scion
Scion is a marque of vehicles produced by Toyota Motor Corporation for the North American market. Founded in 2002, Scion's long-term goal is to appeal to Generation Y consumers. The first Scion models, the xA hatchback and xB wagon, went on sale in California in 2003,followed by a sports coupe, the tC, and a nationwide U.S. launch in 2004. A successor to the xA, the xD, premiered in 2008, and the Scion marque expanded to Canada in 2010. The Scion lineup uses a one-trim, simplified purchase process,[2] and the marque has relied upon guerrilla and viral marketing techniques. The Scion name, meaning the descendant of a family or heir, refers both to the marque's cars and their owners.

History
In 1999, Toyota launched Project Genesis, an effort to bring younger buyers to the Toyota marque in the United States. This project aimed to create a "marque within a marque" in sales and advertising strategy for compact and coupe models sold by Toyota. The effort, which included the introduction of the Toyota Echo economy car, along with late generation Toyota MR-2 and Toyota Celica models, was judged unsuccessful and cancelled in 2001. In response, Toyota chose to launch a separate marque, an effort called Project Exodus. A Los Angeles based digital design company, Fresh Machine (led by Wyndham Chow and Richard Bolton), was retained by Toyota to develop the brand, logo and launch website. This project became known as Scion.

Scion was first introduced in March 2002, at the New York Auto Show. There were just two concept vehicles, the bbX (which became the xB), and the ccX (which became the tC). The 2004 xA and xB were unveiled at the Greater Los Angeles Auto Show on January 2, 2003. They were available only in 105 Toyota dealerships in California at their initial launch on June 6, 2003. The subsequent rollout of the brand to the South, the Southeast, and the East Coast occurred in February 2004. Scion vehicles were available nationwide in June 2004, coinciding with the release of the 2005 tC. On December 16, 2006, Scion unveiled the next-generation xB, based on the t2B concept, and the new xD, successor of the xA, at an invitation-only, no-camera event in Miami. Both cars were then publicly unveiled on February 8, 2007 at the 2007 Chicago Auto Show.

Scion stems from Toyota's well publicized use of "Value Innovation", a series of articles in Harvard Business Review later encapsulated in the book Blue Ocean Strategy. Key factors of Toyota's strategy canvas were never published but include "Price," "Factor Options," "Performance driving metrics," "Confidence in buying," "21st Century Radio."
Toyota Canada Inc. announced that the Scion brand will be available in September 2010 at 45 selected dealers starting in Toronto, Montreal, and Vancouver, followed by other cities. Launch models include tC, xD, xB. The Toyota iQ shown in Tokyo will be sold in Canada as a Scion model, starting in 2011 as a 2012 model. The first new Scions were shown in Canada at the 2009 Montreal International Auto Show.

Lineup
Scion currently has three models: the second-generation tC, a 3-door liftback based on the European-marketed Toyota Avensis sedan; the second-generation xB, a 5-door box-shaped compact wagon sold as the Toyota Corolla Rumion in the Japanese market; and the xD, a 5 door-subcompact car that is sold in Japan as the second generation Toyota ist, which is based on the Yaris platform with the tenth-generation Corolla's engine. The iQ, which is sold in Japan as the Toyota iQ, is expected to go on sale in the U.S. in early 2011.

Scion xA 2003-2006
Scion xB 2003-current
Generation 1: 2003-2006
Generation 2: 2007-current
Scion tC 2004-current
Generation 1: 2004-2010
Generation 2: late 2010-
Scion xD 2007-current
Scion iQ early 2011-

Prices, accessories and availability
Scion uses sales tools such as "Pure Price" and monospec trim levels with a wide selection of factory and TRD accessories. Extensive market research and testing with Generation Y consumers formed the basis of the Scion badge. "Pure Price" means that the price posted, whether on the vehicle, in an advertisement, or on a menu display board in the dealership, is the price customers will pay. This includes vehicles, accessories, finance and insurance products. Pure Price is designed to ensure a shorter and simpler process, eliminating all negotiation. The concept aims to be open and consistent to all customers. The concept is not new to the American market, having been introduced in the early 1990s by the Geo and Saturn marques of General Motors. Scion's sales approach thus differs greatly from that of the larger Toyota entity. In the United States, for instance, the Toyota Camry offers several trim levels: the Camry grade CE "Classic Edition" (for budget-conscious drivers), LE "Luxury Edition" (popularly equipped), SE "Special Edition" (for sporty drivers), and XLE "Extra Luxury Edition" (for luxury-minded drivers). In contrast, all Scions have one standard trim level (monospec) and are designed to be uniquely customized for the driver.

Reference: Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scion_(automobile)

:popcorn:

I could care less it's badged a Scion, it's still a Toyota to me. But this won't end well for you.

I keep telling people if they have a problem with it being a SCION get a Subaru, it's practically the same car anyways. You pay more but you get that pedigree people are looking for, I think you have to look past the badge sometimes. A Toyota badge car has more Pedigree than a Scion badge car even if it's the same car. It's just the way things are, honestly I can care less. I almost bought a TC, but got a Civic Si instead years ago. But that's because I'm a huge Honda fan.

Still Scion or not if people have a problem stomaching the fact that it's a Scion and that it possibly a Celica in the rest of the world, I say spend alittle more for the Subaru.

And I got a feeling this thread will go down hill fast, like the Auto Vs Manual thread. I'll watch from afar. :) Good Luck! and thanks for some facts above real interesting.

Btw.... don't you work for SCION? I seem to recall a post that mentioned that .

Thanx T.O., Oh trust me I'm not worried bout them at all my friend... I will still be standing my ground once they do come. LMAO! :paddle:

Yo Zaku funny that you say that, I almost waited to buy the Si, but got the tC instead. Na, don't work for Scion at all just know my knowledge on Toyota Lexus & Scion. I do work for a car dealer during the day & drive different makes & models. From small low price vehicles all the way to expensive vehicles. Now here is the problem... WHAT happens if Subaru doesn't bring their version to the states? Do you think people will buy the Scion version then?

I understand the premise but don't really need you to regurgitate Wikipedia for me. If you are going to copy/paste word for word, at least give credit where it's due.

I don't personally care if it's Toyota/Scion/Subie... but it's been discussed over and over. If people don't want to drive a Scion, don't buy one. Rebadging it a Toyota in the US is a pretty cheesy attempt at pretending it's JDM, but that's just my opinion. The car is what it is... take it or leave it.

Bofa your right... Ill edit that now. :word:

This!
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1377

Welll There's a prototype running in California, I think that means there's a high chance. It will be here, I mean why test a prototype in that country if your not gonna sell it here ;/

Sweet Jesus. Lol...

I won't but a scion because of its Image. I've said it numerous times the image plays a huge role. You can say "oh it doesn't matter why should you care what people think about what you're driving?" ALL of the U.S is wrapped around image.

I've stated in another thread before you joined so, I'll repeat myself again. Everyone will judge you by what you "wear." You're not going to walk into a 5 star restaurant with shorts and a T-shirt. You're not going to go to a business interview with sweat pants and a hoodie.

I would've thought differently of scion if they didn't market it directly towards young buyers who put park benches and fart cans on their cars. It ruined the initial "image" of the car when they first brought it out. Of course there are people out there who are trying to break the reputation scion holds by making them fast (dragitonni), by drifting in them (former Foust and now.. that European feller), and by keeping the scion "clean." The majority however have ruined it for most people who've owned or had once thought of owning a scion.

Although, Scion is Toyota the image between the two are completely different. Supra/MK2 is family to the tC? Really? What the hell happened there? It went from respectable car owners to overly irresponsible out-of-high-school/college drivers. Interior went down the hill for both the parent and child company. The only other kid in the family that upholds the family's name is Lexus and they're not doing entirely crappy compared to Scion.

As for pricing. I prefer haggling. Why? Dealers try to TAKE as much money from you as possible. You try to SAVE as much money as possible. That's the entire point of negotiating/haggling. I personally believe, this "pure price" strategy is to target those who don't want to do research before they buy a car. It targets those who are uninformed and have a hard time saying "no" to the person who's trying to bully you in the lot.

Add-ons for cars that are unnecessary and to remove them cost you money? Wtf? "The price you see is the price you pay" is definitely a double edged sword. Haggling may SEEM like a horrible process but if you get the better deal why not? If you've done your research you most likely will get a great deal on a car. "Customizable towards every driver audience" Tell me how much that comes out. Its ridiculous! You can look at another dealership that will give you more for that price.

I too am a big fan of Toyota but Scion? No. Instead of putting out "Scion" as a NEW branched car--Toyota could've just made a sub dealer "TRD" and put all of their sporty cars there (this was inspired by a member that said too many different cars in 1 lot = bad idea).

I didn't want this beautiful car to be a Scion. So I'm just going to wait and see what Subaru and Mazda bring out.

Edit: I forgot to mention. The car is fine the way it is. It's the "owner" (Sub-company Scion) that screwed it up.

Nice way to start a fight. To answer.. If they smoked some crack and didn't bring the Subaru model, well GOOD because we really wanted an AWD coupe.:bellyroll: I will not buy the Scion, I will get a CPO 09' Evo X MR SST for the same price as I was going going pay for this coupe. Tokyo Auto Show coming up will be the deciding factor if I wait for it or pull the trigger for the Evo.

*Edit I then will wait for the RX-9 for 2 years while I'm enjoying my Evo if that's the case.

I respect your opinion & u have some valid points. I worked for car dealers & know the business pretty well. Well Im one of the few trying to keep the name clean. :sigh:

The only appreciable difference is likely to be option packages, I'll probably just buy mine based on whichever car offers the best combination of options for my needs. I don't really care about the badge. Let's be honest, we're not talking Ferrari vs Ford here. The Pose Factor differential between Subaru and Scion is relatively small.

I blame the high schoolers and those who ruined the brand reputation.

Welcome buddy! Hahaha... I'm some what with you if the FR-S doesnt come out to what I think it will be besides the badging, I will consider getting suttin else myself.

Trying to convince these people that the badge doesnt matter is like trying to carry out a conversation with a brick.

I understand what your saying... I do think that the Scion brand has established a name of its own and for its maker in the auto industry and among people. For just coming out a few years ago it has become big then what people make it to be.

Pure price is BS, they don't want to haggle it benefits them, easier for them to focus on trade in values knowing the car price.. In PA I can get a 2011 tC for $17.8k out the door with getting a $1000 over private sales with trade in, do the math. Also never pay for accessories either have them included free or removed.

So consumers are still taken advantaged of regardless.

:scared0016: Lol! Very true...

About half of my considerable post count is about why Scion is a bad idea, failing, etc...

I can't be bothered to write another 4 page rant about it.

Cliff notes: It's about the owning experience, the target market, heritage, handling changes for the market, marketing vs engineering, manipulating my choice as a consumer, many, many things.

The brand, unless they wipe out the current management and make some drastic, legitimate changes, is doomed.

However there are some benefits, as demonstrated by Dragon.

I am currently undecided as to whether or not I get the Scion or Subaru, as there is STILL not enough solid information on either.

If Toyota hadn't initially used Scion to jump on the tailend of the import tuning bandwagon, a lot of the animosity wouldn't be here. Instead of marketing TO 'trendsetters' Toyota should have BEEN the trendsetter with their Scion product. Use it to take RISKS on interesting and exciting cars that would intimidate or confuse typical Camry and Corolla buyers. They are FINALLY moving in that direction with the iQ and the FR-S, but there is a TON of shitty legacy image left over from the Lambo-doored, 34 TV-filled, 10 subwoofer ballasted xB at every import show past. And rice still creeps in to their current marketing of the tC.

This is just going to get back on track with the several other "scion" threads. I try to avoid it but.. ffs keeps popping back up!

These arguments make me depressed, when I saw Scion i swear i died alittle on the inside and thought i should go back and wait for Honda to stop making garbage and get back with the program. ;/

So tired of the same thing over and over. :sigh:

:word:
Took a look at the new SI and figured there is no hope anymore for sure.

It's our holding pattern, between waiting for next legitimate info.

If they release more info about the car, more frequently, we won't have as much time to rip on Scion... (hint, hint, Toyota)

I'm sorry...I've actually done that before because I don't give a damn about what people think of me. Yeah some people probably pointed me out and talked smack but guess what? I can move on with life without those people. Just because you drive a Scion doesn't mean your friends are going to laugh. But if they do, are they actually your friends?

Yes, we all wanted this car to be a Toyota. Lets face reality, it's the same thing.

The CR-Z killed it for me; I still love Honda, but the passion is gone :cry:.

OP, as has been mentioned many times on the forum and confirmed by Subaru of America, this cat IS coming to the US as a Subaru. So please stop spreading doubt. Carry on.

Here is some neat information showing how the Scion market has been doing since their launch in 03 that can be added to the thread.

http://autoweek.com/storyimage/CW/20...t.jpg&maxW=630

If I cared about what other people thought about me for driving a car like the AE86, I wouldn't own it. Yes, it has its cult following....no, not everyone likes it...the vast majority think its ugly. @#$@ them.

There's a stark difference between social etiquette and your choice in driving machinery. Unless said machine is a Panzer Tank...then yes, that might be socially inappropriate. But lets not split hairs here...

Just tryin' to prove a point. Nothing about the Scion history since its birth paints a pretty picture.

I'll buy a horse and trot to LA for school.

Edit: Plus these freaking threads about why people should or shouldn't hate scion is getting repetitive and annoying. Lol Its like shitty politics. Everyone hates it.

Then make a new heritage.

Not buying a car for the singular purpose of its badge just reeks of pompousness and vanity. I'm allergic to that stuff.

Send me a TEQ emblem or 86 and I'll reconsider. :P

Which still makes me wonder.. what ever happened with the 86 trademark they filed?

Yeah, no! That's my idea! No takey!

Alright...I'll consider it. But only because you're a zombie hunter extraordinaire much like myself.

:happyanim:

Keep in mind, some of my concern is what technical changes may be made to accommodate the target market of the brand.

If they think Scion buyers will be a bunch of style over substance buyers, with little to no RWD experience, who's to stop them from cranking up the understeer and un-defeatable traction/stability control?

Again I bring up the SW20 MR2 handling 'edit' as past example.

It's not ONLY about the badge. It's about what the consequences of the badge may be.

Sounds like fish-tailing.

Alright, I'll probably catch some crap for saying it.... but you do realize people think the same thing about the WRX series, especially those with no concept of that car's engineering and potential, right? I can't tell you how any times I hear people say it looks like a tinker toy, a kids car, something out of a cereal box, etc. My own wife dogged me out for shopping them the last two times I was getting a car because of the "image" it portrays.

I know what that car can do and I'm sure many of you do as well... but people will always form their opinions whether they are informed or not.

You have to chose to live with what you know, live with what others think, or find another alternative.

*reads Giccin and OldSkool's messages*


Did I stumble into an anime? :iono:

I think we stumbled into the House of Representatives....

Dems: "We'll bring the car as a scion"

Repubs: "no! we want Toyota or Subaru!"

Dems: "We'll keep it NA"

Repubs: "No! We need Turbo!"

Dems: "It'll be RWD"

Repubs: "But we want AWD!"

Dems: "It'll be fuel efficient"

Repubs: "F@$!& that! Drill here and reduce gas prices!"