Car runs terrible after switching from OFT to ECUTEK
 

To start, I had the OFT for over 2 years and ran the stage 2 e85 tune for almost 2 years straight before switching to a custom ECUTEK e85 tune. Car was running 100% perfect the entire time while using the OFT from the start to the last drive before I got the new ECUTEK tune. I was convinced by my current tuner to hop over to ECUTEK for the convenience of 4 maps and having a large ECUTEK tuner base and easier to work with. So IMMEDIATELY after the first flash of the new ECUTEK tune, the car had horrible throttle issues. And it's not the typical dead pedal that happens every time the car is reflashed and goes back to normal after a few days. That did happen but went away after a few days, but then the new/permanent issues began. This issue is permanent and have gone back 3 times for revisions and he can't fix the issue through the tune. This has been happening since I belive April 2019, it is now December of 2019... In any gear under 4k-4.5k rpms the throttle is extremely sluggish and under acceleration the car is hesitating to accelerate so I have to put more throttle input to accelerate. Also when I'm under 3.5k or so and I give 50% or more throttle quickly, the car bogs or "hiccups" for a brief moment and then accelerates. When trying to downshift under 4.5k the car feels unresponsive and the downshifts sound terrible and feel sluggish. All these issues are very prevalent under 4.5k. When I'm accelerating and pass the 4k range the car "frees" up and feels like normal. Also when shifting under 4.5k, if I dont ease into the throttle after changing gears, the car will again "hiccup" if I put too much throttle in. While doing the revisions my tuner said my intake and exhaust cams are not responding well due to clogged actuators. But how can they clog immediately after the first flash coincidently? Keep in mind with the OFT the car was 100% perfect and IMMEDIATELY after the first ECUTEK flash, car starting having issues. I ran seafoam through the oil 3 times already to try and clean out the actuators and oil, cleaned the MAF sensor and also cleaned the throttle body and disconnected the battery countless times. Weird thing is too is this guy is probably one of the most reputable 86 tuners in the world. So I'm trying to not argue with him as I'm a noob at car stuff. But isnt it weird how immediately the car had issues after the first flash? Something must have happened during the reflash stage because the car went from perfect to running terrible in a matter of moments. It's like somebody hit an on/off switch. That's how much different the car feels. I've heard these symptoms are from bad direct injectors, coil packs, dirty maf sensor but why all of a sudden after the first Flash? I'm thinking it's the tune but I want some of your guys opinions. Im thinking of going back to OFT to see if that'll fix the problem but I dont want throw away my ECUTEK license if I dont need too. Also mods are catless uel headers, catless front pipe, TRD exhaust w/muffler delete, overpipe, drop in filter and running e85. Any advice would be greatly appreciated! Thanks in advance.

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Mostly it s the tune your tuner did that has this behaviour
If you like and are used to the throttle of that oft tune, maybe link it to him and tell him you want that throttle
It s like 5 or 6 tables, he can copy paste in like 20 seconds

If even after that you Don t like the tune, change tuner

Once the cams are activated, they stay activated. Anytime you flash a tune, the cams dont reactivate until everything is happy again.

I bet if you went back to the OFT, it would stay in this state. It has nothing to do with your tuner.

This issue is much more prevalent in older vehicles. The fix is to replace your cam gears. It's also a sign that you're enjoying your car! Because of this issue, the cam gear design and signalling was completely redesigned for the 2017+ refresh.

Care to explain csg Mike?
All the cars I tuned from every years, the vvt activates slow only the following 2 startups of engine, and it activates (in ecutek, vvt enabled = 1) only when oil reaches about 32°C, and the only requisite I noticed is also that idle must be quite steady and lower than 1000tom and throttle must be left alone for a while
After 3rd startup, cam activates super quickly all the time
What you mean change cam gears?

Also didn t notice differences in the heads cam gearing, my mechanic rebuilt my my17 heads and we didn t notice difference from a 2015 brz

The cam gears have a dip to signal their position. That dip, over time, gets gunk in it, and can no longer identify cam position over time, as well as the internals wearing out making the actuation less precise.

17+ cars switched from a dip to a raise, to identify cam gear position, along with the requisite hardware change.

Actual Subaru document

https://i.imgur.com/C5AF1fE.png

Right

But was has that to do with the vvt needing time to activate independently from the year of the car and the sluggish throttle response of the tune of OP?

I can send you a worn cam gear to inspect yourself if you'd like. It's easier to experience for yourself, than to try to explain.

? OFT = worked
? Installed Ecutek tune = car now has issues

Personally, if you change something and you find a issue after the change, it's the thing you changed causing the issue.

Not everyone who says they can tune a twin, can actually tune a twin.

My money is on the tune being rubbish.

I would start by getting some other tuner/shop to have a look.

7 months of issue, your either very busy or extremely patient.

That's what I was thinking as well. I wanted to ask for opinions cause my tuners is telling me it's something that's out of his control and is gonna cost me 1,500-2,000$. I'd rather start with some opinions from people who are way more knowledgable then me at this. Although I am not rolling out the probability of my cam gears gone bad, I'm also still skeptical on the tune being faulty. But yet again he has tuned so many of these cars before and is known for tuning this platform. I think switching back to OFT with the same tune and software would be a good start. If it doesnt fix the issue, then I know for sure its a mechanical issue. I was very patient as he told me to run seafoam before the oil changes to see if the actuators can unclog. I did 3 oil changes with 2.5k mile intervals so that's a long time right there.

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So if I would have kept the OFT this issue may have never happened? I see what you mean by the cams not wanting to act the same once changed. It's just really frustrating to think that if I kept the OFT these issues may have never happened. You think maybe going back to OFT is a good start? Same exact tune and software to be 100% sure it's exactly how it was before the issues started. I'm not counting out the cam issue since what you stated did make sense.

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Might do that but I might want to bite the price tag and go completely back to OFT so that way its the same software as well. I did like everything about the OFT too. Convenient and always at arms reach.

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A/B test is always best.

If you go back to OFT and it still acts up, then you know it's your car, not the tune.

Thank you for explaining the cam issue very clearly too. I was not aware that if the cams are not in great shape before a new tune/reflash that it can have negative side effects. I had the stage 2 e85 tune for just about 2 years. So it is very possible build up may have occured over time. Thanks for the advice man!

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Also another reason why I'm still wondering if it is the cams is because all of the symptoms and issues I have under normal conditions are amplified when the car is not fully warmed up. After a few miles of driving the car returns to the symptoms and issues but not as bad as when the car isnt fully warmed up. I'm going to be ordering the V2 OFT in the next day or two and will post an update when I do the new flash. Thanks again!

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I will definitely try that if the OFT flash doesnt help. Thanks for the advice!

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So you throw a ecutek license away when you can just flash an identical tune to that with ecutek?

If your car is NA then just get it on petrol and flash a STOCK tune to the car. A srock tune flashed with ecutek oft brzedit tactrix is the same. The ecutek licience does not effect tune So if your on ecutek jist flash a stock tune to car see if vvt problem solved if so it tune ( this is very unlikely) or if problem still evident then its hardware issue.
No need to waste an ecutek licience.


Car with headers and even in take will run ok on stock tune it may throw a P0420 code, but fhat irrelvant to testing the vvt problems


Log the vvt with ecutek see of cams are activating and you can see cam phase changes as rpm rises



If you have access to techstream check the vvt initial cam values this is often an indicator to vvt issues. Should be as below the intake cam aroud 60' degres and exhaust arroud 90' if not then you indicates problems like in second image

'

https://www.ft86club.com/forums/atta...&d=1529126164v






Bad indication below intake cam 1 initial position out of tolerance. This van be caused by bad sensor bad cam speoket or bad ecu input.



https://i.imgur.com/9bXUrFw.png

Now that I've had time to think I'm not ready to do that. I did enjoy the OFT alot and loved having real time data at my disposal but your advice you gave made sense. Theres no need to throw away my license. I was jumping the gun and was starting to get impatient trying to solve this issue after 7 months lol. I may try what steve99 said. Put in 91, flash to stock factory tune and see if the cams can reset themselves. If not then it looks like I'm gonna be spending a pretty penny...

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You can also make an identical tune to the oft e85 you used (you can make by yourself even without racerom license actually, you will just have access to map1 and not to the other 3) and flash it with ecutek and you will have an almost identical tune in your ecu like had before

I'm going to more then likely try this out. I jumping the gun on going back to OFT. Not ready to throw my ECUTEK license out the window. Thanks for this advice!

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Very true. If the car was running perfect before on the OFT tune, it should run fine again. I'll more then likely try this first, if nothing happens, like steve99 said run 91 and flash stock tune, then go on from there.

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Unluckily not
If I was, I would tell him "go throw away your license so you then will buy another new one"
It s all steve99 fault, I learnt everything from him :P

I really don t care that much of what other people are doing with their money, I m just trying to help :)

No, you can flash anything with ecutek and license always be there
Problem is when you flash stock tune with ecutek, and then overwrite with a different system

Does the activation needs to happen again when the battery is disconnected even with no flash ?

Thanks !

If you are not resetting learning, then no.

Thanks for your quick reply !

To my understanding, disconnecting the battery leads to a new learning phase (with dead pedal etc.) so I'm assuming the car will need to activate cams again.

When these cars will be old it'll be a serious problem if vvt goes off like this :/

Yes if you disconnect battery for a while, ecu kind of reset and vvt will take longer to activate
The hotter engine oil is, the shorter it takes

Even if you just reset DTC will do the same

Thanks !

I hope that with regular oil changes and track abuse I'll not encounter this issue before a lot of miles ... !

No flashing to stock with ecutek retains licience but it unlocks ecu. Other systems like oft,tactrix, brzefit can then write to ecu, but if you use other system to write, then that will overwrite the embedded ecutek licience in ecu and its lost, as the other systems dont re write the licience code.


As long as you continue to use ecutek to write the licience is retained, you can flash thousands of times, whetever tune you like

The only time ive seen a tune be a problem with vvt activation is if base idle speed is set to over about 1000 rpm. The ecu want to see a series of conditions for about 60 seconds to initilise vvt, zero throttle idle less than about 1000 , vvt phasors at zero , likely oil or coolant tems at some level and possibly others. But ive heard of guys with rearly high base idle having trouble

Quick question also when I had the OFT I would frequently clear my check engine code (p2096) since I run catless headers, the car would always have that typical dead pedal sequence for a few fays. Since it's doing that dead pedal sequence everytime after clearing codes, doesn't that count also "flashing" the ecu again? Shouldnt the cams have misbehaved back with the OFT when I did that the code clearing since the ecu is re-learning again? Or do they only misbehave when you flash a new tune with different cams settings while clogged?

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two completely different parameters, as learning is mainly for fueling, whereas cams are a readiness check.

You are implying the sluggish throttle is caused by vvt not enabling but we Don t know for sure yet without proof (= logs)

Also,
Are you pressing very slowly the accel pedal for 3 or 4 times with the ignition on and engine off before cranking the engine after reflash or DTC clearing?
It helps a lot


About learning, csg Mike Is right, Ltft learning plays a big role in engine smoothness and pedal response
In my tune i keep ltft disabled all the time and basically in less than 5 minutes of driving my pedal goes ok

Oh ok didnt know that. Sorry still learning here just throwing out any possibilities I can think of haha

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So after the clearings I never did that process. Just drove normally until car went back to normal. While having these issues and symptoms for the last 7 months, whenever I disconnected the battery and then drove the car for a few days, the car would actually feel a little better and smoother for those few days. The MPG would actually hovering around the mid 21's for those few days. After a few days when the car went back to its usual state after the re learn process, the car felt horrible once again and even the MPG dropped significantly. I'm currently down to 18.2 and slowly going down. I was also clearly running out of fuel much much quicker then before.

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Got logs? I'll take a look. I can tell you if its cams or not.

The licience always stays in ecu


You cannot recover a licence by flashing to stock it still stays in ecu


Hoever if you did purchase any used working ecu that contained an valid ecutek licience you can then install it in your car and reflash it using ecutek to required calid for your car

No you dont , licience is totally independant of cable used


Tune files supplied by tuner are keyed to cable dongle id ( and possibly vin) but the licience in ecu is npt keyed to a cable kit.


Any ecutek cable can reflash an ecu with an ecutek licience.


But cavle kits are designated to groups of vehicles so you would need a cavle kit assigned to a brz\86 vehicle type


See here
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=117520

So I dont have any logs but while data logging my tuner has said it was for sure the cams not responding well and was very sure and that he has ran into this problem with other cars 86s hes tuned. He said the seafoam through the oil helped the other cars but seafoam procedure had zero affect on my issues getting better. Mine was very weird because mine happened so instantatisly after the first flash it went from the car being perfect to driving terrible. Sorry if I dont explain this correctly for I'm not too educated in this subject enough, but if I remember clearly he said he was giving the cams a certain amount of retard and they would end up doing something completely different from what he set them at. Sorry if that was a bad explanation but I'm sure that's what he said.

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