Will Subaru deny warranty for transmission if I have aftermarket trans fluid?
 

My BRZ is grinding into 4th gear at high rpms and I'm thinking of taking it into the Subaru dealer to have them take a look at it. Its quite weird because I had my mechanic put in royal purple fluid, and he drained the fluid two times, and never found any metal in the fluid. I've no idea why its grinding, but I just want to know if Subaru will deny warranty claim on the basis of aftermarket fluid? Would it be a good idea to put in the OEM then take it?

As long as you used the correct weight and type of fluid, they can't really deny warranty coverage. Or rather, they could, but then you'd take them to arbitration and they'd be forced to honor the warranty anyway. They know this, so they're unlikely to try it unless they suspect and think they can prove abuse.

When you say it's "grinding," is it a prolonged grind, or is it a crunch going into gear? If it's a crunch, they're going to tell you that's "normal" for transmissions in Subarus.

BTW, when I asked my dealership about 3 and 5 crunching in mine, the tech actually suggested I try Motul instead of the stock stuff. So like I said, they don't really care what brand you put in it as long as it's the correct weight and type of lubricant.

My trans ate 4th and 5th gear syncros. Like you, I kept fresh and correct but non-OEM fluid in it. No questions were asked. They gave me a new trans. These trans are not the best and they are aware.


ps - the new one grinds a little going into 3rd, so yes, this is characteristic of even a "good" one. It can get worse though, which is what my last one did.

Perhaps I need to go check out the transmission threads, but isn't the OEM fluid good for the life of the car? Just because they put a fill and drain port on the transmission (to me) doesn't mean it should be changed regularly/ever. Flushing a transmission sounds like trouble waiting to happen (clogging check-valves with metal bits that wouldn't normally make their way to check-valves without being flushed into that location). I know dealers try to scare customers into doing this unnecessary change, but I haven't seen this in any owners manuals or recommended by the manufacturer.


Just be honest with the Subie dealer. That tends to grant mutual respect moving forward.

Yes-ish. The way I've come to understand the definition of life is "Some amount of time that extends past the last listed service checkpoint in your manual."

That means if you're an average car owner who gets the car at 0 miles, the fluid will not need to be replaced before you replace your car. Average car ownership is just under 6 years, which equates to 90,000 miles given the average 15,000 miles per year driven.

Anecdotally, I've seen transmissions with 300,000 miles on the original fluid. It wasn't babied as a whole, but the drivetrain was not abused (Also had an original clutch that still held tight).

On the other hand, we all probably abuse our cars more than the average person. Track use definitely deserves more frequent fluid replacements just like brake fluid and oil. If you rev it out frequently, there's a lot of motion in the transmission that could degrade the fluid earlier than expected.

Long story short I personally consider any "lifetime fluid" to be a candidate for replacement after 120,000 miles. It's never the right color when it comes out after that long.

On my phone the fluid part was was cut off so I only saw aftermarket trans.. I'm highly disappoint.

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Yea its definitely more of a crunch. At lower rpm it just seems notchier, and at higher rpms like near redline its like a crunch.

Yeah, they're going to tell you that's normal. My tech drove it and said it felt normal, so he even had me drive it and point out the crunching to him and said that was normal. Unless it turns into an actual grind, they're not likely to fix it.

Won't hurt anything to try, though.

I learned that they can deny you warranty for any reason...and want you to waste your time to go fight it.

I was denied warranty because...and I loosely quote:

Service Manager: "Your car has 80k kms on it already, we can't warranty that"
Me: "The powertrain is for 100k kms, why does it matter if I have 1km or 99 999kms?"
Service Manager: "Sorry, we can't warranty that".

The response I got from Subaru corporate regarding this:

Unfortunately, you will have to speak to the General Manager at Gemini Motors for this concern as dealerships are independently owned and operated.

I have found you can download a small claims form online and when you walk in to the manager to serve them they usually will come to the table. (Writ of Certiorari)

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Out of curiousity, what portion of it was you were trying to get repaired under warranty?

I guess I must lead a charmed life because I've never had a valid warranty repair refused, or even really questioned. In fact, I've had two cars (a 1977 Honda Civic and a 1999 Chevy Astro) that were both completely repainted under warranty because of faulty paint that had begun peeling in large areas. In both cases I was the the second owner (had bought them used) and both were in the last 10,000 miles of the warranty end. In both cases it had to be approved by a factory rep, but it wasn't an issue in the end.

Conversely, I'm apparently not very charmed when it comes to paint life I suppose. That continues with the FR-S.

It was a Hub bolt.

Edit:
[QUOTE=p1l0t;3282628]I have found you can download a small claims form online and when you walk in to the manager to serve them they usually will come to the table. (Writ of Certiorari)

To be fair I didn't expect them to warranty that part but that was the response the service manager gave to me when I asked. I contacted Subaru because they quoted me for 1 hub bolt + labour but they changed 2 hub bolts and 2x labour without informing me. They would not release my car until I paid for both. That was why I contacted Subie canada.

The transmission fluid is good for the life of the transmission, just like the factory engine oil is good for the life of the engine.

[quote=8inchAzN;3282652]It was a Hub bolt.

Edit:
Whatever it's like $35 court fee and if you win THEY pay it. (Besides it's more of a bluff tactic just showing up with the form)

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He's in Canada though, so the process and warranty requirements may be different there. I think they require a Mountie to present the case before a shaman in a smoke tent or something. Once they come to an agreement everyone shares the royal pudding.

[quote=p1l0t;3282688]IT's not worth my time, It was $130 for a bolt + labour. Also in Canada, it's a lot more expensive...and even if you win you still have to go through the hassle of collecting.

An infrequent claimant will pay:

$102 for filing a claim
$89 for filing default judgment
$290 for fixing a date for an assessment hearing
$120 for filing a Notice of Motion for an Assessment in Writing

It's sound logic, although engine oil is somewhat of an open-loop system (lubricates the cylinder walls, also happens to be where the fuel is added/combusts if there's any blow-by). The transmission is a closed-loop system, where the fluid can't burn up or escape without intentionally being removed or a hole blasting through the transmission. Water can get into the engine too if say, you drove underwater. The transmission is still sealed up (you know what I mean lol).

I'll keep researching, but feel free to dazzle me with some science supporting this claim.

My user manual states:
Transfer Case/Transmission - Inspect each transfer case/transmission component for signs of leakage. If you discover any leakage, have it repaired immediately by a qualified technician.

Note: The transfer case/transmission and transmission fluid are a completely sealed unit. Therefore, periodic checks and replacement of the transmission fluid are not required, and there is no dipstick on the transmission. Any repairs that require adding or replacing fluid should be performed by a qualified technician following procedures in Lexus service and repair publications.

Now granted maybe my Lexus is bulletproof, the user manual instructs service intervals up to "180 months or 150,000 miles" and beyond "Inspect transmission for signs of leakage," nowhere does it say "replace transmission oil" except when towing every 60k miles. So maybe, if you're driving it hard... then this is the equivalent of towing... that I can see.

No science needed, just logic. It is the same as when I am selling a car and tell them it ran good last time I drove it.

[quote=8inchAzN;3282713]DAYUM

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How would they ever know if the fluid isn't OEM? It all looks the same after xxxx miles....

You expect them to take a stool sample and send it off to 'the lab'?
Nah, just Bubba in the back who sticks his pinky in and tastes it to determine country of origin and phosphorus content.

PLEASE do not mistake one employee, with zero administrative power, for the "attitude/policy of the corporation".

The McDonald's cashier saying "yeah I'm pretty sure there's no peanuts in that..." is not the same as the official policy of McDonalds, published by the CEO and Board of Directors.

People make mistakes and say wrong stuff all the time. It's human nature. I've done it. Just please be more cautious.

First of all, nobody said anything about a 'flush'.
Second, I'm not sure where you got some of this info from, but a lot of it sounds like made-up monkey nonsense with zero scientific or factual backing.
"Clogging check-valves with metal bits". Bruh, if you got metal 'bits' large enough to clog check valves, you got much bigger issues.

Third, between the "it's lifetime fluid, guys!" and the "the owner's manual doesn't say anything about a transmission flush!" I think you take the owner's manual a little too literally.

Lifetime fluid is pretty much a ruse. Not so much in that it's fake, but more like people don't understand what "lifetime" means.

It reminds me of a time someone came on a Tacoma forum who was upset that his tire shop wouldn't balance tires he didn't buy there.
"But I bought the lifetime balancing!"
Well, yes, but that was for the tires you bought from us. These are different tires.
"But it's lifetime!"

And someone else joked "good thing you didn't assume they meant your lifetime."

The tire shop meant lifetime of the tires - 40k miles.
The owner assumed lifetime of the vehicle (I guess) - 300k miles.
And the jokester meant the owner's lifetime - 75 years.


As far as vehicle manufacturers, "Lifetime" usually means like 90k-150k miles. It's unsure as these exact definitions are not public knowledge.
But the vehicle manufacturer has no interest in the 200k or 300k mile mark. If the vehicle makes it to 150k, good job. If it goes farther, that's just a happy accident.
Remember, the warranty period is rarely more than 60k miles. That's all they're on the hook for.

Keep in mind 300k city miles vs highway miles. Some vehicles only start up twice per day - start up, shift through gears 1->6 (or whatever), get on highway for 75 miles, never leaving 6th gear, arrive at work. Park.
Repeat on the way home.
A warmed up vehicle cruising steadily at 70mph for hours on end experiences very little stress compared to a city vehicle.
Transmission fluid degradation is almost entirely a function of fluid temperature, which is a function of shifting and high revs.
A low-revving vehicle cruising in the same gear will not heat the trans fluid much.

It's entirely possible a 300k low-stress vehicle might have better looking original fluid than a 35k mile city car.

Writ of Certiorari is when the Supreme Court chooses what case it will review next
:iono:

I think you need to become more familiar with the mechanics of engines and transmissions lol
Just some encouragement

Yeah you're right it's just Small Claims Writ. Or Notice of Suit depending on the state.

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What's a 'royal pudding'? Is it something that Epstein and Prince Andrew would partake?

Try a different transmission fluid. Some are too thin and/or slippery and dont allow synchros to work as well.

That's why I'm here :) I'm learning how important changing the fluid is for heavier driving than daily driving.