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-   -   Trouble Downshifting into 5th (https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=137482)

MotoX16 10-25-2019 12:10 PM
Trouble Downshifting into 5th
 
Hey Guys,

I've been having this issue lately and I wanted to get your opinion. I'm having trouble down shifting from 6th to 5th. If I try to do it in one motion it like locks me out and I cant get it into 5th. If I go over to neutral and wiggle it around a bit then I can pop it into 5th just fine. Up shifting from 4th to 5th is fine as well.

This was not an issue before and it just recently started happening, probably worth mentioning it has started getting colder here in MN. Car is a 2017 with 25k miles; shifter springs, whiteline trans bushing, perrin shifter bushing, fx400 clutch, mt-90 trans fluid 3k miles ago. Was working just fine with all these mods before so not sure they're the cause.

Could it just be the cold weather? Anything I can do to fix this?

Thanks in advance

HKz 10-25-2019 01:08 PM
cold weather is certainly biggest factor but I don't agree with changing the trans fluid in general and especially before 100 K..who knows if your new fluid is less viscous in colder temps than the previous stuff..

do you notice it become easier to shift after it warms up?

MotoX16 10-25-2019 01:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by HKz (Post 3269627)
cold weather is certainly biggest factor but I don't agree with changing the trans fluid in general and especially before 100 K..who knows if your new fluid is less viscous in colder temps than the previous stuff..

do you notice it become easier to shift after it warms up?
Well the only reason I changed my trans fluid is because I replaced my clutch. And I read MT-90 was pretty good stuff.

But no the problem still persists even after the car is fully warmed up

xdavidx 10-25-2019 02:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MotoX16 (Post 3269611)
Hey Guys,

I've been having this issue lately and I wanted to get your opinion. I'm having trouble down shifting from 6th to 5th. If I try to do it in one motion it like locks me out and I cant get it into 5th. If I go over to neutral and wiggle it around a bit then I can pop it into 5th just fine. Up shifting from 4th to 5th is fine as well.

This was not an issue before and it just recently started happening, probably worth mentioning it has started getting colder here in MN. Car is a 2017 with 25k miles; shifter springs, whiteline trans bushing, perrin shifter bushing, fx400 clutch, mt-90 trans fluid 3k miles ago. Was working just fine with all these mods before so not sure they're the cause.

Could it just be the cold weather? Anything I can do to fix this?

Thanks in advance

Simple fix, don't downshift to 5th. Not much purpose for it anyway... if you are downshifting to pass you probably need more power than 5th and if you are downshifting to go slower 4th is a perfectly fine option.


That... or you could bring it to the dealer since it appears to be within the warranty period and have them fix it because there is no reason a car won't be going into gear during normal driving that doesn't mean there is something wrong.

MotoX16 10-25-2019 02:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by xdavidx (Post 3269651)
Simple fix, don't downshift to 5th. Not much purpose for it anyway... if you are downshifting to pass you probably need more power than 5th and if you are downshifting to go slower 4th is a perfectly fine option.


That... or you could bring it to the dealer since it appears to be within the warranty period and have them fix it because there is no reason a car won't be going into gear during normal driving that doesn't mean there is something wrong.
I use 5th all the time, most of my commute is in that 50-60mph range. So thats a no go on the simple fix.

I have a hard time believing the dealer would fix anything under warranty. Boosted with an aftermarket clutch will probably get me shot down, but it might be worth a try.

xdavidx 10-25-2019 03:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MotoX16 (Post 3269665)
I have a hard time believing the dealer would fix anything under warranty. Boosted with an aftermarket clutch will probably get me shot down, but it might be worth a try.

I will take back my cynicism and snarky comment. I see lots of people post things they are perplexed by how to fix when they are under warranty and can just bring it back to the dealer, have a cup of coffee, and drive home trouble free. In your instance, I can see that may not work out so well. If you have a cool dealer they 'should' cover it because it really isn't related, but I can definitely see most dealers using it as an excuse not to do the work.

humfrz 10-25-2019 03:17 PM
Bubba suggests you bleed the clutch system. Then, don't lazy leg the clutch pedal and blip the throttle at the "right" time.

humfrz for Bubba

pgranberg11 10-25-2019 05:00 PM
when you replaced your clutch, did you replace your throwout bearing? if yes, what throwout bearing did you use? Did you grease it? if yes, what did you grease it with?

DandoX 10-25-2019 06:02 PM
01. Rev match your shift

that will work but if that proves too tricky try

02. Double clutch

Did you break in your clutch properly after the install? With a new clutch there is a break in process before you can expect to drive normally.

Ultramaroon 10-25-2019 07:49 PM
There is no magical relationship between fifth gear and the clutch. A dragging clutch will make it difficult or impossible to engage any gear in either upshifting or downshifting.


Is this really only felt downshifting and only into fifth?

soundman98 10-25-2019 10:24 PM
are you rev-matching?

humfrz 10-26-2019 02:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pgranberg11 (Post 3269700)
when you replaced your clutch, did you replace your throwout bearing? if yes, what throwout bearing did you use? Did you grease it? if yes, what did you grease it with?
I believe the TOB on these cars come pre-lubricated. Now, the clutch fork may need a dab of lubricant - ;)


humfrz

ermax 10-26-2019 03:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultramaroon (Post 3269737)
There is no magical relationship between fifth gear and the clutch. A dragging clutch will make it difficult or impossible to engage any gear in either upshifting or downshifting.


Is this really only felt downshifting and only into fifth?


I mostly agree but it could be dragging just enough to cause issues in the higher gears with less synchros yet still feel fine in lower gears with triple cones. I would suggest jacking the rears off the ground and verify that the wheels aren’t creeping when the clutch is fully pressed just to rule that out.

Oh and do a long press of the TC button before doing this test or the ABS will go crazy on the rear wheels if the wheels do turn at all.

MotoX16 10-28-2019 10:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pgranberg11 (Post 3269700)
when you replaced your clutch, did you replace your throwout bearing? if yes, what throwout bearing did you use? Did you grease it? if yes, what did you grease it with?
Yes I replaced the throwout bearing with a 2017 one, with the white dot. Not exactly sure what grease I used, think it was some high temp wheel bearing grease I had laying around

MotoX16 10-28-2019 10:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultramaroon (Post 3269737)
There is no magical relationship between fifth gear and the clutch. A dragging clutch will make it difficult or impossible to engage any gear in either upshifting or downshifting.


Is this really only felt downshifting and only into fifth?
Yep its only felt when down shifting into fifth

MotoX16 10-28-2019 10:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ermax (Post 3269807)
I mostly agree but it could be dragging just enough to cause issues in the higher gears with less synchros yet still feel fine in lower gears with triple cones. I would suggest jacking the rears off the ground and verify that the wheels aren’t creeping when the clutch is fully pressed just to rule that out.

Oh and do a long press of the TC button before doing this test or the ABS will go crazy on the rear wheels if the wheels do turn at all.
Thanks for the suggestion I'll try this when I get off work. If my wheels are creeping, whats my next course of action? Bleed the clutch? Adjust the clutch pedal?

Ultramaroon 10-28-2019 12:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MotoX16 (Post 3270364)
Yep its only felt when down shifting into fifth
Try @ermax's suggestion. I know that it becomes extremely difficult to get it into any gear with even the slightest drag but in your case, confirmation would be good news. Do it with both a cold and hot clutch.


If it is dragging, then yes, first try bleeding. If that's not it then something else changed. I feel like even if adding throw to the clutch pedal helps, it would still be treating the symptom, not the cause.

ermax 10-28-2019 11:34 PM
Trouble Downshifting into 5th
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MotoX16 (Post 3270367)
Thanks for the suggestion I'll try this when I get off work. If my wheels are creeping, whats my next course of action? Bleed the clutch? Adjust the clutch pedal?


Just try bleeding. Any other issue it could be would require the removal of the tranny. I’ve snapped drive straps on pressure plates before which causes the mating surface to shift a little but that also causes a lot of vibration and it will drag so bad you will not be able to get it in any gear.

How does your fluid look? If it’s dark then you most likely have a master or slave going bad which would allow air in the system.

It could simply be worn out synchros in 5th and nothing to do with the clutch. A free solution to that would be to learn to double clutch. I drove an Integra for years with completely worn out synchros (all gears) and now years later I still can’t break the habit of double clutching. Not a bad habit to have though.

humfrz 10-28-2019 11:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ermax (Post 3270604)
…………... I drove an Integra for years with completely worn out synchros (all gears) and now years later I still can’t break the habit of double clutching. Not a bad habit to have though.
And some of us drove for years with no synchros at all - ;)


humfrz

pgranberg11 10-30-2019 01:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by humfrz (Post 3269801)
I believe the TOB on these cars come pre-lubricated. Now, the clutch fork may need a dab of lubricant - ;)


humfrz
Quote:
Originally Posted by MotoX16 (Post 3270363)
Yes I replaced the throwout bearing with a 2017 one, with the white dot. Not exactly sure what grease I used, think it was some high temp wheel bearing grease I had laying around
when I installed my 2017 TOB, i greased the contact point of the clutch fork itself as well the inside of the bearing the rides on the shaft. the actual bearing itself doesn't need any lubrication, but where it rides on the shaft, it doesn't hurt to add. for what it's worth I used high temp copper grease. I was pretty generous with it too.

https://www.amazon.com/Permatex-0912.../dp/B000HBM8HU

whether I did it wrong or not, it hasn't given me any issues and I've put close to 10k miles on the clutch and at this point over 20-30 track days since 2017. I used the copper grease because i saw it was good to 1800F. :thumbup:


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