5 Reasons You Shouldn't Care About Horsepower (As Much)
 

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUO5bp-wyLU[/ame]

Naah this car needs power.

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Definitely... more power and torque. Need like an FA20GZE or something...

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Interesting points - :thumbsup:


humfrz

small **** energy

Yeah no, I’d like a bump in power

We can tell ourselves all we want, but there’s no denying the fact that more power would bring you a bigger smile. But hey, I’m all about lying to myself to keep me happy ;)

Stripping my interior brought me a bigger smile. Being able to get over 40 mpg on longer trips brings me a bigger smile. Figuring out what is the lightest exhaust I can buy and mounting it will give me a bigger smile. Only thing I'd wish for is a higher red line. Like 9k.

Not the lightest but the lightest without excessive noise 10.85lbs!


https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=97259

I generally dislike Engineering Explained. I guess his videos are better as an introduction to the concepts. A lot of his simplifications and slightly (but sometimes outright) wrong answers bother me.

I generally agree with this video though about light weight and usable power. My first car only had about 115hp at the crank when it was brand new. I got it used and when it was nearly 10 years old I slapped a ported and gasket-matched intake manifold on it. It only gave me about 2-3 additional peak hp at the wheels, but 25 hp more around 3k rpm. That's huge!

I didn't buy this car for power, acceleration, or top speed. I have a car that does 175mph, my DD has a 400hp V8, and my truck makes over 1000ft/lbs of torque to the wheels.

I bought this car purely for its handling and feel.

You know what brings a smile to my face is sustaining 1.4g+ in a corner, pissing off a 600hp awd Audi because they can't catch me, getting point bys from Mustangs with 3x my power, ripping over the curbing at 100mph at the bus stop at the Glen, people coming up to you after a session saying man you were flying, power sliding up-hill through a corner in a time trial, and all this on a stock car with a factory warranty.

Let's face it guys... Not one road car is build for multiple purposes. Try to build a car that do everything and you'll end up with just another stuffed "sporty" SUV...

Says kiddie who has no clue how to drive.
Pay for a track day. Pay for a clue

How are you getting point by from a mustang? You catch up on the turn but you can't pass in the turn, so at the straight, he leaves you behind again. Little car passes going into the turn with later braking and carrying more speed. Are you racing or doing DE?

Everyone wants MOAR POWERS until you drive around and realize you cant even use most of it.

You're either trying to maximize power use on a track (if you go to one), or you're using around 100hp in everyday driving (with the occasional 1 second burst to over 200 just to overtake someone)

You say whatever you want. But if the car never needed more power. Most on her wouldn't try to get more out it doing modifications, whether bolt ons or FI. The car is slow and I don't need a track to tell me that. Fricking Priuses zipping pass while I'm going 75 is enough to tell me that.

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Are some of you saying that headers and tune don't make for a better feeling car? You prefer less power and crappy torque? Even the original had a 4AGZE option.

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The car could have 300HP and people would say it isn't enough and mod it for 600.
Are you trying to blame power for cars passing at 75mph? Is that the top speed you can get? Would more power help at all when doing 75? You do have a shift lever or paddles right?
DRIVE THE FUCKING THING!

I am perfectly happy with the feel of my car without mods thank you very much. I didn't buy it as a dragster.

It's called "a better driver"

How much power needed for a perfect 86/BRZ is subjective.. A header and tune makes the car comes alive more. But then what about boost? It'll make the car even better. But what about LS or 2JZ swap? It'll make it even better and more reliable than boosting the stock engine...

And the award for yet another stupid fucking thread with no purpose and just a rehash of the same old debates goes to...


https://media0.giphy.com/media/vsRfLra6rSfv2/source.gif

Not true in a lot of cases. I'd rather have it and not need it then not have it.


I loved commuting in cars that had 400+ hp, and then driving them at the track too. Never had an issue driving around normally..... actually cruising in some of them was BETTER since they were spinning idle rpm for the most part.

Personally, I think point #4 about response vs. power is quite relevant to this car and not something we've talked a lot about, at least not in the same framing he used.

My old Triumph was a blast to drive in part because when you pushed the accelerator, that little 160 horse 6 cylinder would instantly respond. When you let off the accelerator, engine compression would instantly toss you forward against the seat belt. That gave it the feel of being a little hornet, able to dart from one state to another with almost no transition.

It would jump off the line from a standstill. It could burn the tires from 30 mph. I could come up behind someone on the freeway, instantly match their speed, instantly dart forward 20 yards and instantly match their speed again, drop back and match again, just like a hornet buzzing around them. I had a lot of torque available all throughout the RPM range.

My BRZ, although a "faster" car that out-handles that TR6 in every way, feels a lot more sluggish at the pedal in comparison. The transitions are a lot more gentle. That's a positive in one sense, in that it's a lot more predictable and less likely to just cut the rear end loose unexpectedly if you don't know what you're doing. But for a driver accustomed to driving RWD vehicles, this car would be even more fun with faster transitions, more instant torque and less rev hang.

How are you not? A good track day organization and polite HPDE drivers will note slower cars that are quicker over the overall lap. So the guy either points you buy, or gets blue flagged. If they are slow to get the hint just drive closer to them.

How much more is subjective. But people with sensible mods aren't saying oh I totally ruined the feel. Happy is fine. Happier is better. Anyway, someone should've looked at the torque curve on day one and said no way this is going into production, we can do better.

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5 Reasons You Shouldn't Care About Horsepower (As Much)
 

I agree that making your car lighter is always going to help. The FR-S is already pretty darn light, but there are certain areas like the exhaust, and wheels, that can be much lighter when you go aftermarket. Like if you switch to Enkei RPF1’s and a titanium exhaust it will be a noticeable difference. Other than that I think the twins are on the edge of how light can a car be before it becomes unusable for everyday driving. Like a Lotus Elise for example, or the Alfa 4C. Nobody wants to drive those everyday, unless you are a masochist. Lol

For the 9K redline you will need to switch to a Honda F20C [emoji1]

*I should add for this price range. Lighter more exotic materials start costing a lot more.

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And how would you "do better"? Think they just gave up and said "meh good enough" (in Japanese of course).


That 10% dip for a tenth of a second is the worst excuse for people not being able or willing to actually drive the car that I have ever heard.

I dunno, how's everyone else improving it? I own a BRZ, I drive a BRZ, I voted for it with real money. But I don't pretend it's perfect or make excuses for Toyobaru.

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I think that’s one of the best things about this platform. There is enough aftermarket support it can be anything you want. And nobody will ever agree on what is perfect. If Toyobaru built it to Porsche 911 or even Cayman price levels people would flip out. [emoji23]


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Most car enthusiasts I know modify because we like to tinker :iono: If I wanted something with power I wouldn't have bought a twin that's for sure.

Nobody says it is perfect. But some of the "imperfections" that people complain about are just plain foolish. It is the common statement of "they just need to do XXX and all would be perfect" that annoy the hell out of me. Doesn't matter what you can do with aftermarket modifications since you don't have to meet the requirements the OEM does. Saying "it is simple" is meaningless.
There are far more expensive cars than these out there that have torque dips but nobody is whining about them.

Aftermarket is great... but CARB legal? I know, no one wants to talk about it or even pretend that they care... But remember all the CA people swapping back to stock exhaust for a short time? Oh well.

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Here's a crazy idea. New "exhaust manifold" design from the factory, 50 state legal.

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Those more expensive cars also aren't starting with best-case ratings of 150 ft/lb at the crank. Additionally, they aren't cars whose chassis are so well developed that such low numbers to begin with become so glaringly obvious. Complaining about mediocre power or a torque dip isn't any more foolish than complaining about narrow tires or soft spring rates; it's just far more expensive to remedy.

Meh. People knew what they were getting before they bought it. It can be fixed by those that want to spend the money. They just want the "perfect" car for econobox prices and complain when they don't get it.

My Yaris was about 2000 pounds without the rear interior and it was perfectly fine to drive. It was also shorter than a miata though.

carb=terrorism

that's one piece. I need to revive Anthony's old thread where he had the weight of all the different pieces. I'm guessing all titanium would be lightest.

To solve what? That factory cat is the primary choke point. Plenty of dyno's of punched out stock manifolds that show good improvement. Even after market headers have a high flow cat and will not likely meet EPA or Euro standards. And you can't just lean out the car to reduce CO emission because you start to raise NOx emissions.

They should design a different car for each market? There are markets that make the California emission requirements look like a stroll through the park.


NEWSFLASH!!!!!!!
The emissions and mileage REQUIREMENTS that come into place over the next few years mean that even the best of the current engines will fail them by 2025. Don't expect them to continue to make the high revving, big HP numbers they have for the last 20 years. They will be gone in most of this forums lifetime.
On the plus side electric cars have gobs of torque so the people that can't merge or pass because of the dip should be happy.

I wish Toyota had brought the Yaris GR here (I think that’s what it is called). What a fun little car that could be! I’m ok with some sacrifices for a lighter car (noisier, fewer features, etc) but I couldn’t drive a Yaris with the interior stripped out. [emoji28]



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