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Sasquachulator 10-11-2019 11:09 AM

2021 Toyota Mirai
 
I don't think anyone saw this coming:

https://www.autoblog.com/2019/10/10/...irai-revealed/

To sum it up, it went from frumpy overweight weird prius-like oddball, to Toyota Crown RWD sedan clone.

More RWD Toyotas in the works? Lets start that rumor!

Yoshoobaroo 10-11-2019 11:15 AM

Quote:

By 2025, the plan is to offer an electrified option on every vehicle in its global lineup -

Does that include the 2nd gen 86?

p1l0t 10-11-2019 03:08 PM

An actual fuel cell deal.. interesting. Apparently electric cars are so much simpler to build that the amount and variety of new cars that are about to flood the market is crazy.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

Atmo 10-11-2019 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by p1l0t (Post 3266187)
An actual fuel cell deal.. interesting. Apparently electric cars are so much simpler to build that the amount and variety of new cars that are about to flood the market is crazy.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


Building is one thing, distributing, selling and servicing through a dealer network another, as Dyson realized.

https://www.theverge.com/2019/10/10/...car-ev-project

No question that a fundamental shift is taking place in the electrification of people and cargo transportation with Toyota leading the way in hybrid sales increase this year that have exceeded plan. Nationwide there's only a 3-days supply of RAV4 hybrid vs 60-120 DS for ICE cars (200+ DS of 86's) with typically no incentives to push RAV4 hybrids.

Next electrified Toyota up will be a unicorn, the plug-in hybrid RAV4. The production vehicle will be revealed at the LA Auto show. If it has a 10kWh+ battery it'll qualify for $10K Fed/State tax credits in my state plus free reserved parking and charging in lots of places like major metros and airports.

https://pressroom.toyota.com/2021-ra...les-auto-show/

p1l0t 10-11-2019 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atmo (Post 3266203)
Building is one thing, distributing, selling and servicing through a dealer network another, as Dyson realized.

https://www.theverge.com/2019/10/10/...car-ev-project

No question that a fundamental shift is taking place in the electrification of people and cargo transportation with Toyota leading the way in hybrid sales increase this year that have exceeded plan. Nationwide there's only a 3-days supply of RAV4 hybrid vs 60-120 DS for ICE cars (200+ DS of 86's) with typically no incentives to push RAV4 hybrids.

Next electrified Toyota up will be a unicorn, the plug-in hybrid RAV4. The production vehicle will be revealed at the LA Auto show. If it has a 10kWh+ battery it'll qualify for $10K Fed/State tax credits in my state plus free reserved parking and charging in lots of places like major metros and airports.

https://pressroom.toyota.com/2021-ra...les-auto-show/

Another contributing to factor to Dyson backing out was the amount of other upstarts as well.

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Atmo 10-11-2019 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by p1l0t (Post 3266205)
Another contributing to factor to Dyson backing out was the amount of other upstarts as well.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

I think the automotive industry is going through a Bitcoin type bubble with upstarts trying to attract capital before the Founders then literally pull the plug and drive off in their Bentleys.

Irace86.2.0 10-12-2019 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atmo (Post 3266203)
Building is one thing, distributing, selling and servicing through a dealer network another, as Dyson realized.

https://www.theverge.com/2019/10/10/...car-ev-project

No question that a fundamental shift is taking place in the electrification of people and cargo transportation with Toyota leading the way in hybrid sales increase this year that have exceeded plan. Nationwide there's only a 3-days supply of RAV4 hybrid vs 60-120 DS for ICE cars (200+ DS of 86's) with typically no incentives to push RAV4 hybrids.

Next electrified Toyota up will be a unicorn, the plug-in hybrid RAV4. The production vehicle will be revealed at the LA Auto show. If it has a 10kWh+ battery it'll qualify for $10K Fed/State tax credits in my state plus free reserved parking and charging in lots of places like major metros and airports.

https://pressroom.toyota.com/2021-ra...les-auto-show/

Toyota has also said they wanted to change the perception surrounding hybrids. They have seen the success Tesla has had with marketing Tesla models as amazing performing vehicles, and they realized there is a better market with selling hybrids as performance cars than marketing them as eco cars to conscious minded customers. In that regard, the Rav4 hybrid was marketed as their most powerful and fastest accelerating car.

Tesla has proven that the electric platform is a better platform, and that realization by the market will drive manufactures to adopt electric and hybrid platforms.

p1l0t 10-12-2019 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0 (Post 3266425)
Toyota has also said they wanted to change the perception surrounding hybrids. They have seen the success Tesla has had with marketing Tesla models as amazing performing vehicles, and they realized there is a better market with selling hybrids as performance cars than marketing them as eco cars to conscious minded customers. In that regard, the Rav4 hybrid was marketed as their most powerful and fastest accelerating car.



Tesla has proven that the electric platform is a better platform, and that realization by the market will drive manufactures to adopt electric and hybrid platforms.

It is a better, simpler, and yet more advanced technology. The only downside are the heavy damn batteries that are completely used up the second you utilize the full performance of the electric motors...

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Irace86.2.0 10-12-2019 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by p1l0t (Post 3266427)
It is a better, simpler, and yet more advanced technology. The only downside are the heavy damn batteries that are completely used up the second you utilize the full performance of the electric motors...

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

The Bugatti will chew through a full tank of gas in 12 minutes or less at top speed. Racecars fuel often too. I’m sure in time the battery capacity will improve.

Atmo 10-13-2019 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0 (Post 3266425)
Toyota has also said they wanted to change the perception surrounding hybrids. They have seen the success Tesla has had with marketing Tesla models as amazing performing vehicles, and they realized there is a better market with selling hybrids as performance cars than marketing them as eco cars to conscious minded customers. In that regard, the Rav4 hybrid was marketed as their most powerful and fastest accelerating car.

Tesla has proven that the electric platform is a better platform, and that realization by the market will drive manufactures to adopt electric and hybrid platforms.

Toyota's pushing the idea that RAV4 HEV is quicker than the ICE version and upped the ante saying the PHEV will be quickest of all...RAV's, anyway.

That made me hopeful that they'll be tuning their future THS systems toward sport until learning that the next hybrid reveal after RAV4 PHEV will be Sienna.

Quote:

Originally Posted by p1l0t (Post 3266427)
It is a better, simpler, and yet more advanced technology. The only downside are the heavy damn batteries that are completely used up the second you utilize the full performance of the electric motors...

It's disappointing that Toyota isn't rolling out more lightweight lithium battery HEV's, instead sticking with the heavier, cheaper, nickel batteries.

At least they're packaging the new batteries in better locations. The new Camry and RAV have their batteries under the rear seat vs. the prior generation in the trunk or under the load floor making for a better CG mentioned by most testers.

All this said, Akio Toyoda has said that fuel cell vehicles are the long term future. Of course long term to him means within the next 50 years.

why? 10-13-2019 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yoshoobaroo (Post 3266085)
Does that include the 2nd gen 86?

most likely. I am sure they saw the car from mississippi state. Under 3000 pounds, plug in hybrid, faster than the current vehicle. How can you beat that? Only thing not to like is the engine in their car only powers the battery.

Lantanafrs2 10-13-2019 06:29 PM

Lot less moving parts

Yoshoobaroo 10-13-2019 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by why? (Post 3266593)
most likely. I am sure they saw the car from mississippi state. Under 3000 pounds, plug in hybrid, faster than the current vehicle. How can you beat that? Only thing not to like is the engine in their car only powers the battery.



That thing is sick!

Lantanafrs2 10-13-2019 07:52 PM

2 stroke emissions might be an issue with that car. They didn't give much info on that end

Yoshoobaroo 10-13-2019 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lantanafrs2 (Post 3266634)
2 stroke emissions might be an issue with that car. They didn't give much info on that end



True, but with the resources of a real car company you could get a 1l 4 stroke REX motor in there. The i3’s REX setup weighs <300lbs. That’s not as light as a 2 stroke but not bad.

vh_supra26 11-23-2020 01:55 PM

2021 Toyota Mirai Hits Dealerships in December with Cutting Edge Technology, Enhanced
 
https://pressroom.toyota.com/2021-to...ltiple-grades/

Quote:

  • Elegant 2021 Mirai Goes on Sale in December
  • First Time Mirai Will Be Offered with Two Grades – XLE and Limited
  • Toyota Safety Sense 2.5+ Standard on Every Mirai
  • Standard 12.3-Inch Multimedia Touchscreen with 14-Speaker JBL® System
  • Hydro Blue, Oxygen White, Supersonic Red, Heavy Metal and Black Exterior Colors
  • Seating for Five

PLANO, Texas (November 16, 2020) – The first production hydrogen fuel-cell electric vehicle (FCEV) offered for sale to retail customers in North America, the Toyota Mirai, rolled onto dealership lots five years ago. This December, the all-new, second-generation 2021 Mirai, which debuted in 2019 at the Los Angeles Auto Show, will do the same.

A dramatic change in styling, this Mirai will offer multiple grades for the first time – XLE and Limited – and is based on Toyota’s premium rear-wheel drive platform, debuting a dramatic yet refined coupe-inspired design with improved passenger room and comfort. The new platform allows for a highly rigid body that is lower, longer, and wider, with its bolder stance accentuated by available 20-inch alloy wheels. The design is more aerodynamic, yet also emotionally evocative.

Premium Technology

The Mirai is raising for the bar for standard technology equipped across a model line. Every grade comes standard with a 12.3-inch multimedia touchscreen with 14 JBL® speakers including a subwoofer and amplifier, as well as Android AutoTM, Apple CarPlay® and Amazon Alexa compatibility. Behind the steering wheel, an 8-inch color TFT LCD digital gauge cluster displays the speedometer, drive mode, fuel efficiency, MID and more. A Qi-compatible smartphone wireless charging tray also comes standard on every 2021 Mirai.



The XLE grade includes dual-zone climate control, heated front seats, manual rear seat sunshades and power-folding mirrors with puddle lights.

The Limited grade comes standard with a color Head-Up Display (HUD) with speedometer and navigation, three-zone automatic climate control, heated and ventilated front and rear seats, and a rear touchscreen control panel with climate control function, rear sunshade toggle, audio controls. A Bird’s Eye View Camera also comes standard on Limited grades, while available on XLE. The Limited grade also gets standard Intelligent Park Assist and a dual-fixed panoramic moonroof with power sliding shade.

Toyota Safety Sense 2.5+

Toyota is a pioneering force in the adoption of Automatic Emergency Braking (AEB) ever since it made the advanced safety features standard across many of its model lineup for 2017, five years ahead of the voluntary commitment by many OEMs with the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) to make it standard on virtually all light vehicles. For 2021, the Mirai is one of three Toyota models to include TSS 2.5+, the next phase in Toyota’s evolution of safety systems. A number of functions that are part of the Toyota Safety Sense have been enhanced.

For starters, the Pre-Collision System with Pedestrian Detection (PCS w/PD), features multiple enhancements. By enhancing the system capabilities, it is now possible for the system to help detect not only the vehicle ahead but also a preceding bicyclist in daytime and even a preceding pedestrian in low-light conditions. TSS 2.5+ also enhances the PCS w/PD system with intersection support. At intersections, the system may detect an oncoming vehicle or pedestrian when performing a left-hand turn and may provide audio/visual alerts and automatic braking in certain conditions. Additional PCS functions include emergency steering assist, which is designed to stabilize the driver’s emergency steering maneuvers within their lane while avoiding a preceding pedestrian, bicyclist or vehicle.

Mirai comes equipped with Full-Speed Dynamic Radar Cruise Control (DRCC), which can be activated above 30 mph and is designed to perform vehicle-to-vehicle distance controls down to 0 mph and resume from a stop. DRCC also includes a new feature that allows for smoother overtaking of slower vehicles. If traveling behind a vehicle traveling slower than the preset speed, once the driver engages the turn signal with steering input the system will provide an initial increase in acceleration in preparation for changing lanes; after changing lanes, the vehicle will continue acceleration until it reaches the preset driving speed.

Lane Departure Alert is designed to help notify the driver via audible alert if it senses the vehicle is leaving the lane without engaging a turn signal. When DRCC is set and engaged, Lane Tracing Assist (LTA) is designed to assist the driver by providing a slight steering force to help center the vehicle in its lane using visible lane markers or a preceding vehicle.

Additional TSS 2.5+ features include Automatic High Beams, which detects preceding or oncoming vehicles and automatically switches between high beam and low beam headlights, and Road Sign Assist (RSA), which is designed to recognize certain road sign information when available, by using a forward-facing camera and display them on the MID.

Electrifying Choices

Accentuating the Mirai’s smoother, more sculptural form is a brand-new Hydro Blue color never before featured on a Toyota which achieves its brightness and deepness through a multiple-layer painting process. This exclusive color will only be available on the Limited grade. Oxygen White, Black, Supersonic Red, and Heavy Metal, the latter of which is also exclusive to Mirai, will be available on both grades.



A 20-inch super chrome-finish aluminum wheel option is available on the Limited grades, while 19-inch black machined-finish aluminum wheels come standard. The XLE will come standard with 19-inch twin-spoke aluminum wheels.

Moving inside the cabin, all XLE grades feature Black SofTex®-trimmed heated seats with Gray stitching on the seats, doors, headliner and steering wheel, as well as Silver accents throughout the dash.

The Limited grades have a choice of Black or White heated and ventilated perforated SofTex®-trimmed seats. Both options can be paired with Gray stitching with Silver accents or Ivory stitching with Copper accents.

The Limited grades feature panoramic moonroof panels with power sliding shade. Limited also features a power sunshade for the rear window.
https://s.aolcdn.com/os/ab/_cms/2020...001-scaled.jpg
https://s.aolcdn.com/os/ab/_cms/2020...002-scaled.jpg
https://s.aolcdn.com/os/ab/_cms/2020...002-scaled.jpg
https://s.aolcdn.com/os/ab/_cms/2020...001-scaled.jpg
https://s.aolcdn.com/os/ab/_cms/2020...003-scaled.jpg
https://cdn.motor1.com/images/mgl/6m...on-version.jpg

Dadhawk 11-23-2020 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vh_supra26 (Post 3386819)

I might consider this if 1) it was not a west coast only car 2) there was any chance a hydrogen infrastructure will be built soon.

I blame Musk for this....

Tcoat 11-23-2020 03:00 PM

"the Toyota Mirai, rolled onto dealership lots five years ago. This December, the all-new, second-generation"

LOL I have never heard of this before and it is five years old and headed into the second gen?

vh_supra26 11-23-2020 03:03 PM

Sales figures for the 1st gen were pretty low. I never even seen one in person. :lol:

https://www.goodcarbadcar.net/toyota...onthly-yearly/

Dadhawk 11-23-2020 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tcoat (Post 3386850)
"the Toyota Mirai, rolled onto dealership lots five years ago. This December, the all-new, second-generation"

LOL I have never heard of this before and it is five years old and headed into the second gen?

It was only sold in California.

vh_supra26 11-23-2020 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dadhawk (Post 3386854)
It was only sold in California.

They sold 81 in Canada :p

gymratter 11-23-2020 03:16 PM

Modellista Has Already Unveiled A Kit For The 2021 Toyota Mirai
 
https://www.carscoops.com/2020/11/mo...-toyota-mirai/

https://www.carscoops.com/wp-content...dellista-2.jpg
https://www.carscoops.com/wp-content...dellista-1.jpg

Dadhawk 11-23-2020 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vh_supra26 (Post 3386856)
They sold 81 in Canada :p

Hmm, didn't know that.

vh_supra26 11-23-2020 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dadhawk (Post 3386861)
Hmm, didn't know that.

Starting in 2019, but only for fleet operators.

http://media.toyota.ca/releases/toyo...arting-in-july

strat61caster 11-23-2020 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tcoat (Post 3386850)
"the Toyota Mirai, rolled onto dealership lots five years ago. This December, the all-new, second-generation"

LOL I have never heard of this before and it is five years old and headed into the second gen?

I had a coworker with one.

I also notice them a lot because as they merge onto the freeway the driver understandably stands on the throttle pedal it spits a bunch of wastewater out the tailpipe which invariably just sprays all over the place not any different from the car in front of you hitting the windshield wipers and dusting your hood and windshield with little specs of water...

:bonk:

DarkPira7e 11-23-2020 05:48 PM

Nobody is going to call them out for the seriously tacky name? I'd expect it from Kia and Hyundai, not Toyota...

Edit: for those not in the know, Mirai means future

strat61caster 11-23-2020 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkPira7e (Post 3386917)
Nobody is going to call them out for the seriously tacky name? I'd expect it from Kia and Hyundai, not Toyota...

Edit: for those not in the know, Mirai means future

Toyota.com currently features a big banner advertising "Toyotathon" so par for the course imho.

Irace86.2.0 11-23-2020 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vh_supra26 (Post 3386851)
Sales figures for the 1st gen were pretty low. I never even seen one in person. :lol:

https://www.goodcarbadcar.net/toyota...onthly-yearly/

I’ve seen a half dozen. Oddly shaped, but unique.

This second gen is pretty nice. Looks like the bastard child of a LC500 and a Stinger or something, but in a good way. Too bad performance won’t match the price tag; 0-60 in 9 seconds—ouch. I’m sure that EVs will outsell this by large margins.

vh_supra26 11-23-2020 09:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0 (Post 3386961)
I’ve seen a half dozen. Oddly shaped, but unique.

This second gen is pretty nice. Looks like the bastard child of a LC500 and a Stinger or something, but in a good way. Too bad performance won’t match the price tag; 0-60 in 9 seconds—ouch. I’m sure that EVs will outsell this by large margins.

Probably because @Dadhawk said, they were only sold in CA. :iono:




On another note I read that this car is based on the 15th gen Crown.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qzd93tKhP1c

Tcoat 11-24-2020 06:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkPira7e (Post 3386917)
Nobody is going to call them out for the seriously tacky name? I'd expect it from Kia and Hyundai, not Toyota...

Edit: for those not in the know, Mirai means future

So tacky but accurate?

DarkPira7e 11-24-2020 07:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tcoat (Post 3387077)
So tacky but accurate?

It looks nothing like a DeLorean

Sasquachulator 11-24-2020 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vh_supra26 (Post 3387001)
Probably because @Dadhawk said, they were only sold in CA. :iono:




On another note I read that this car is based on the 15th gen Crown.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qzd93tKhP1c

I read that the mirai started off as the next gen Lexus GS project before that car was dropped completely, and then this just got repurposed as a Toyota Mirai.

There are some Lexus cues in it (Especially the instrument binnacle area...looks straight out of Lexus) and the fact that the Mirai started off as an oddball looking FWD stretched Prius tank and all of a sudden did a complete 180 on a RWD platform with proper RWD size and proportions and relatively good looks makes that rumor believable.

They wont sell a ton of these because you need a hydrogen station infrastructure to even consider one. And that's only found in some parts of California and i think only in Quebec here in Canada.

vh_supra26 11-24-2020 02:35 PM

^I think there were some rumors in that ballpark going around on the Lexus forums, but I believe the "inside people" said that was just a silly rumor. With the ES growing in size and maybe offering AWD in the near future that it would essentially fill in the gap left by the GS. :iono:

gymratter 12-03-2020 12:44 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4xzifFGJGY

vh_supra26 12-16-2020 06:50 PM

https://pressroom.toyota.com/toyota-...lagship-sedan/

Quote:

  • Striking, Elegant New Coupe Design on Premium RWD Platform
  • Upgraded FCEV Powertrain with Enhanced Performance
  • 30-Percent Increase in Range up to 402 Miles on XLE Grade
  • More Luxury, Safety and Tech Features
  • Up to $15,000 of Hydrogen Fuel Included with Mirai Purchase or Lease
  • Starting MSRP of $49,500; More Than $9,000 Less Than Outgoing Model


Spuds 12-17-2020 03:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vh_supra26 (Post 3393509)

They managed to reduce stack weight by 50% and increase power. But then increased vehicle weight by 200lb? Possibly due to the increased size or fuel tank layout/capacity?

Good job making a real car out of it at least. Wish we had hydrogen stations in more places.

Irace86.2.0 12-18-2020 01:46 AM

2 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Spuds (Post 3393570)
They managed to reduce stack weight by 50% and increase power. But then increased vehicle weight by 200lb? Possibly due to the increased size or fuel tank layout/capacity?

Good job making a real car out of it at least. Wish we had hydrogen stations in more places.

Larger platform. More luxury.

We don’t even have enough here in California—just 42. The first station opened May 2014 and in six and a half years we have 42. We have around 2k Tesla Supercharger stations and over 16k stalls on top of tens of thousands of Tesla Destination chargers, and there are universal 3rd party fast chargers too. Tesla went from the first six to 2k in eight years. At the rate hydrogen stations are going up, it will take 300 years to match the number of Tesla Superchargers now. I know Toyota hasn’t sold many Mirais, but it seems like a large investment for something that isn’t well supported with infrastructure. Tesla alone has 10x the stations now of what they plan to make in hydrogen stations by 2025! I feel like unless hydrogen picks up steam quickly, which is unlikely, and unless battery development hits a bottleneck soon, which is unlikely, the argument for whether EVs or hydrogen cars will prevail in the near future is all but concluded. The production numbers now are so stark, as to already reach that conclusion, but this information about the state of the stations is just another nail in the coffin.

Quote:

For nearly four years, there has been just one fueling station in the San Diego area for the few owners of hydrogen cell vehicles to fill up their cars.

But the California Energy Commission has OK’d $39.1 million to help construct 36 new hydrogen fueling stations across the state, with a portion of that money going to four new stations in San Diego County.


A spokeswoman for Shell said its station in Carlsbad is part of the company’s larger program to develop 51 refueling stations over about six years.


There are 42 hydrogen fueling locations across the state and the Energy Commission’s funding is aimed at helping boost sales.

“This award puts us well beyond 100 stations, potentially upward of about 180 stations open or in development,” said Keith Malone, spokesman for the Fuel Cell Partnership. “That really helps us get much closer to the next milestone of 200 stations” by 2025 that then-Gov. Jerry Brown issued in an executive order two years ago.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.san...es%3f_amp=true

Dadhawk 12-18-2020 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0 (Post 3393797)
We don’t even have enough here in California—just 42. The first station opened May 2014 and in six and a half years we have 42. We have around 2k Tesla Supercharger stations and over 16k stalls on top of tens of thousands of Tesla Destination chargers, and there are universal 3rd party fast chargers too.

Supply and demand, right?

Musk took the right approach by eliminating (or at least minimizing) the infrastructure argument by building it into the cost of the cars and leveraging the fact you could fuel at home easily for most persons to fill the gap.

Traditional manufacturers were expecting the infrastructure to be provided by others, just as oil companies provide their refueling infrastructure now.

Had Tesla, or Toyota for that matter, done the same thing for hydrogen instead of, or in addition to electric, I have to wonder who would be ahead?

Spuds 12-18-2020 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0 (Post 3393797)
Larger platform. More luxury.

We don’t even have enough here in California—just 42. The first station opened May 2014 and in six and a half years we have 42. We have around 2k Tesla Supercharger stations and over 16k stalls on top of tens of thousands of Tesla Destination chargers, and there are universal 3rd party fast chargers too. Tesla went from the first six to 2k in eight years. At the rate hydrogen stations are going up, it will take 300 years to match the number of Tesla Superchargers now. I know Toyota hasn’t sold many Mirais, but it seems like a large investment for something that isn’t well supported with infrastructure. Tesla alone has 10x the stations now of what they plan to make in hydrogen stations by 2025! I feel like unless hydrogen picks up steam quickly, which is unlikely, and unless battery development hits a bottleneck soon, which is unlikely, the argument for whether EVs or hydrogen cars will prevail in the near future is all but concluded. The production numbers now are so stark, as to already reach that conclusion, but this information about the state of the stations is just another nail in the coffin.

You actually don't need as many hydrogen stations as chargers for the same amount of cars. To fill an empty hydrogen car is what, 5 minutes? To fully charge a depleted battery on a supercharger is 90 minutes, up to 12 hours on 240, and if you only have a standard wall outlet up to 100 hours. You need 18x the amount of hydrogen stations in superchargers to service the same amount of vehicles.

42 hydrogen pumps (assuming 1 pump per station) is equivalent to 756 superchargers (assuming one plug per supercharger). How many pumps does the average hydrogen station in CA have?

Dadhawk 12-18-2020 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spuds (Post 3393847)
You actually don't need as many hydrogen stations as chargers for the same amount of cars. To fill an empty hydrogen car is what, 5 minutes?

Looks like based at least on this article the fueling stations range from 1 to 4 pumps.

I agree on this, plus it could grow organically because it takes no longer than filling a large SUV (my Suburban takes 5 to 10 minutes to fill if near empty). You could literally retrofit one or two pumps at existing stations and provide the infrastructure needed (OK, not exactly that simple but it follows the same business model).


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