What winter tiers do you guys like?
 

Hi all,



I'm currently using my 86 as a DD. With winter coming I'm looking to pick up a set of winter tires to swap to. I was hoping some of you could offer me some suggestions. Non-studded and I'm not doing any winter racing so I don't need anything crazy high performance.



I haven't done any wheel mods so for fitment everything is stock.



Also, I'm hoping parking inside and rinsing off any road salt every couple days will be enough to stop corrosion. Have you guys had any good/bad experience doing this? Any other suggestions?

dunlop wintermaxx is 90% as good as blizzaks, but much less money. i use 18x8 wheels in summer and 17x7 in winter.

I love my nokians, way better then continentals or the blizzaks I've tried.

After talking to a guy from norway about winter tires, the nokians are spectacular in very frigid, snow packed roads that may or may not get sand.

But for road conditions any less than that, bridgestone blizzak ws series are very popular with good reviews. Personally, i ran the general altimax for 2 years. Again, i have no major complaints. I ran them on a 16" wheel for extra sidwall.

Something to note about winter tires is that any tread under 50% makes them no better than a set of all seasons. Thats part of why i stopped running winter tires after 2 years.

The other reasons i don't use winter tires anymore is because i now run all seasons on the car(first 2 years were the oem summer tires), and my location near chicago, the roads are only ever bad enough to require winter tires for 1-2 days after snowfall. After that, they clear and salt the roads so heavily that the pavement is completely dry, and there is no grip benefit from them. I wore my winter tires out completely due to running them on dry pavement for way to long(nov-feb, averaged about 10 days of snowfall those years).

Everyone's situation is different of course, but my experience, i suggest getting a really awesome set of allseasons. And even if you only use them in the winter months, they'll still grip plenty, and you can use them any other time.

Again, in my neck of the woods, I don't need to be pushing my tires to 100% of their capabilities. And my experience is that a great set of all seasons will have 75% of the grip that a snow tire has. Meaning general snow, slush, hardpack. Ice, snow tires have better grip. But if the roads get icey around me, they shut things down and ticket anyone driving through.

There are areas that benefit, but personally, it was stupid of me to spend $1300 on a wheel/tire package that i actually only needed for 20 out of 730 days.

The limitation that no one talks about in cruddy conditions is the other drivers. It doesn't matter if you're on $10,000 snow tracks if the moron 3 ahead is on all seasons with 10% tread, and the guy ahead of him has a prius with the summer tires. Or the guy ahead going up the incline slept through physics class and firmly believes that stepping on the gas pedal through 4th gear will get him up the hill better.

I now run all seasons through the winter with at least 30% tread, and don't drive stupid, which makes me one of the safest drivers in those conditions.

Nokians if you want to get the absolute best, General snow tires are a deal and they are awesome.

Top-tier tires.

Nokian hakkapeliitta r3 will be my next set.

Currently I am running a set of Pirelli ice zero FR which have handled the last winter quite nicely. They're a good balance of snow traction, ice and good dry road response. They're quiet on the highway which is a big pro over tires like the blizzak.

Last year I got a touchless wash pass at a gas station and washed the car every other day. Worked for the most part, all though I'll be undercoating the car this year. I saw some locals with MY13 cars with minor rust issues.

Do you think I should consider NOKIAN WR D4 instead of Continental WinterContact TS 860? (or something else?)

I've used Continental before, and very pleased with its performance. Never used a Nokian but read some complains on Turkish forums. Some say, it's great; some say, it was deformed very soon.

Consider what sort of winter conditions you typically experience. Do you deal with ice, packed powder, or slush most of the time? Each one has a different tire characteristic that you want to look for.

Here in central New England, they salt the shit out of the roads which quickly turns them into a greasy, slushy mess. Tires that have a lot of void area do very well here, since you need to move all that slush out from under the tire quickly. If your driving conditions tended to be more packed powder, I'd worry less about void area, and get tires with the most aggressive siping you can find. Ice is another story yet, which (in studless) tends to be rubber compound and tricks like micro-bubbles and such. All tires are going to be a combination of the three to some degree...look for ones that meet your budget and are oriented for what you experience most often.

like the guy above said.. winter can mean different things... icy roads, snowy packed roads, cold weather but otherwise dry roads..


I'm in Toronto which is probably similar to Chicago.. Never had a problem with Michelin Xi3



.. except once.. in London, ON... when my girlfriend lived in a house at the bottom of a hill.



I don't blame that on the FRS though. I was leaving her place at 6am, got stuck trying to go uphill, called a tow, tow truck came down half way and got stuck too. Had to winch himself to a light post to get back out. He said don't bother.


The only people who left to work that day were 4x4 SUVs lol. A woman in a camry loaded with 3 kids tried going after see me and the tow truck stuck... she made it a few feet... spun wheels. Parked the car. Walked home with the kids.

I agree with @soundman98 in post #5.

Just get some good all-season tires.

If the snow is so deep, that you need snow tires, you shouldn't be driving an 86 on those roads, anyway.

If it's icy, you shouldn't be driving any vehicle, anyway.

If you have to go up or down steep snow/ice covered hills, it's best you just stay home, anyway.

And as soundman98 stated, and I have found out after driving in the winter in nine countries of Europe, Canada, the mid-west, New England and Washington, that the limitation to getting to where you want to go on ice/snow covered roads, are the ass holes in front of you that don't know how to drive in the snow!


humfrz

I bought my car in June of last year, with a set of Accelera Phi-R all-seasons on it. The first time it snowed, I got severely stuck. The following weekend, I had a set of Blizzak WS80s put on. I have nothing but good things to say about them. Night and day difference. There may be "better" snow tires, but the Blizzaks did everything I asked without issue. I never got stuck again all winter, even in way worse snow than when I got stuck before. There were a few times where I was driving to or from work and I saw big AWD SUVs having trouble, and I just drove around them. As long as I kept my inputs smooth, I felt solid. Had some trouble going up steep hills, but I'd wager you'd have that problem no matter what tires you put on.

I did wear out the rears by doing snownuts basically every time it snowed, but if I'd been less of a hooligan they almost certainly would have lasted another season at least.

Lastly, I think peoples' opinions on this are basically only dictated by how much snow they get wherever they live and how often they have to drive in it, but IMO, if you plan to DD your 86 in a place that gets snow, all-seasons are not enough. At the very least, they weren't enough for me. I'll be buying another set of Blizzaks come November for sure.

My winter tires are Pilot Super Sports. Because Florida.

But if I actually lived somewhere that had winter, in addition to the tire choice I would also get an extra set of TPMS modules and an ATEQ Quickset so I didn't have to look at the buttcheeks-with-anus warning light all winter.

Another good tire are the Hankook i-pikes. They're good enough in a 205/60 that I can get around in about 8" of snow. I've driven this car through 3 snowstorm filled Vermont winters; I get the car fluidfilm undercoated each fall (my car has no factory undercoating) and the only rust so far is exhaust.

A few things in this thread that I want to correct:

You are making a blanket statement that does not apply to ALL winter tires. The Bridgestone Blizzak WS, for example, are indeed a regular all-season compound once you wear past ~50%, but the General Altimax Arctics are a full winter compound, and do not share that characteristic. To be honest, when your winter tires are worn that far down, it's probably time to replace them anyway.

I'm not entirely in agreement with that viewpoint (and I live in the Chicago area as well.) People often think about winter tires as things that ONLY benefit you during a snow storm, but that is far from an accurate statement. The roads can be completely clear of snow, but if the temperature is cold enough for ice to form, a winter tire is going to offer significantly more grip on that random patch of ice than an all-season tire will.

Also, it's worth pointing out that if your car is a daily driver, then on those handful of days when you have to commute during a storm, the rather significantly increased grip you'll have with a set of winters is more than worth it. Adverse conditions are when the roads are the most dangerous, both because of your lack of grip, and because of everyone else driving like a moron. THOSE are the times when I want uncompromising grip from my tires.

As for wearing them out prematurely driving on dry pavement... they are called WINTER tires, not SNOW tires, and won't wear out instantly on dry pavement. Not sure what kind of driving you are doing to wear them out, but you are not driving them normally, if that is the case. I get at least 3 winter seasons (running them from Oct/Nov to April) on mine before I replace them - and at that point they still have a decent amount of tread; just not the deep tread that you want on a winter tire for heavier snow and slush.

We are going to have to disagree on this for several reasons. Deep snow or not, winter [not snow] tires offer a huge advantage over all-seasons. Winter tires aren't ONLY for deep snow driving. They are for ANY snow driving... or ice driving... or even wet/dry pavement in extremely cold (winter) temperatures.

Your "if it's icy" statement sounds like something someone would say who has never lived in a winter environment. Ice storm? Sure, stay home. Regular sunny day with some snow that melted, and then froze on the road surface? Good luck ever getting to work all winter long if you're going to stay home so long as that is a possibility. Ice happens in the winter. Having some winter tires on your car that provide MUCH more grip on ice than all seasons is always a good option for that random patch of ice at an intersection... or if you DO get caught in a freak snow squall.

Driving these vehicles in wintery conditions is no more dangerous than driving any other vehicle in wintery conditions. A BRZ with winter tires is a much safer vehicle to drive in snow and ice than an SUV on all seasons. It will stop better, and turn better.

I'd like to recommend everyone watch this TireRack video, which demonstrates the very significant difference between all-seasons, and winter tires:

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlYEMH10Z4s[/ame]


And as another reference, here are three videos I strung together from one of my actual commutes to work, to show the kinds of winter conditions I was able to safely commute to work in. Keep in mind that my car is lowered, on coilovers, with a front lip. I run General Altimax Arctic tires. (The sliding around in the first clip is me intentionally having a bit of fun on the entrance ramp :P)

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0wAwDQp6Ek[/ame]


Take it from someone who has many, many years' experience driving in the snow. This car is fine to drive in adverse weather when properly equipped, and winter tires are absolutely worth the investment, and will afford you an added layer of safety, and peace of mind that all seasons simply cannot achieve.

http://www.seriesblueadventures.com/...2016/12/01.jpg

Dunlop SP Winter Sport 4D

As much as I want to believe this is true just to feel good about my car, it is not true. A 6000lb Suburban will be so much more reliable on snow compared to a 86/BRZ with any snow tire one can choose. I know by experience, there is no space for argument.

WOW! That was a well done dissertation - :thumbsup:

You stated: "Take it from someone who has many, many years' experience driving in the snow".

I'll put up my years of transporting myself on snow and ice covered roads against yours.

I have been driving vehicles for about 70 years now. Of those years where it snows, 20 years in Ohio, 2 years in Germany, 7 years in Connecticut, 7 years in Missouri and 25 years in Washington. Guess what, I've never owned a set of snow tires.

Plus, I was operating in the snow waaaaaay back when we had only one horsepower and no "snow shoes", but, we did have four "wheel" drive, but only two "wheels" drove at a time. Yes, the roads were pre conditioned with dirt, sand and gravel.

I remember the time back in 1966, when I was driving across the Austrian Alps and got snowed in down in this valley - but, that's another story - ;)


humfrz

having driven a suburban and a brz in the snow, i say they're about equal. the brz can dart and stop. the suburban pushes through like a crack-adled elephant.

the suburban taught me about intertia. the brz taught me about grip.

Cars never used to come with seat belts either, but I bet you use them now...

I'm not saying the car can't manage to get around on all season tires in the winter; I'm saying if you live in the snow belt, you're a fool if you drive around without snow tires. The relatively small cash outlay and minor inconvenience of storage is far outweighed by the metric crapton of improvement in how the car handles. It's the same as driving around on bald tires in the summer during the rainy season...you're unnecessarily risking your own life and more importantly, others' around you.

Good point there, venturaII - :thumbsup:

Yep, cars didn't used to have sealed beam headlights, nor radial tires, nor dual braking systems, nor ABS, nor power brakes, nor power steering, nor ESC, nor safety glass and we drove around on half bald retreaded tires on gravel roads. Damn, it's a wonder some of us are still alive - :confused0068:

:iono:


humfrz

my experience isn't this at all. you make winter tires sound like a godsend.

my experience is that winter tires are 120% of what all seasons are. i will never say they are comparable, or equal. but i will say that the minor advantage is not enough of an increase for myself.

i don't care about the storage. i don't care about the hassle of changing tires. i have equipment and space for those things. what i do care about is performance. the car still skids. the car still slides. it might slide at 15 mph instead of 10 mph, but it still slides.

that is not a miraculous difference like you imply. that is a difference of altering driving techniques. i've chosen to alter my driving technique instead of installing/maintaining dedicated snow tires. not being an idiot keeps me out of ditches. leaving space keeps me from rear ending other cars.

All seasons are great at doing everything mediocre. Tires have too much of an impact on the overall driving experience for me not to buy the right ones for the job.

That is not my experience at all. I drive on General all season tires right now, and was stuck on them in about 5 or 6 inches of snow down here in NC last year. They were atrocious. The main road out of town where I was working was not touched. I was driving sideways down the entire thing at about 20 mph. Any faster and the rear end started to rotate around, any slower and it started to get stuck. They made it, but it was not my best experience in the snow.

Up in Mass I had General snow tires. I was caught in 3 different freak blizzards that year driving home from my parents house. The drive was about 90 minutes or so. In spots on back roads it was almost a total white out. If I hadn't driven the roads a million times before I would have had to stop. None of the roads were treated because snow was not in the forecast. My car was absolutely rock solid. No skidding, no sliding, no anything. Red lights and stop signs were not a problem at all. The car was so amazingly planted I was passing the few people in massive 4 wheel drive SUV's because they were all afraid of the conditions. I assume they were all on all season tires. For me it was truly night and day. There is a rumor that General is using designs and plans from older Nokian tires. It certainly felt that way to me.

Everyone's experiences are different. For me if I had to face constant threat of snow I would absolutely mount snow tires. Heck even down here in NC I'll mount them during the cold months, they still handle the cold better than the all seasons do.

Anyone who says that winter tires are only a slight benefit over all-seasons has either never driven on winter tires, or had some weird-ass experience with them... or drove a performance winter tire, and not a proper winter tire. Performance winter tires are one thing, but true winter tires are in their own league as far as snow and ice grip, and the difference isn't marginal.

Watch the first of the two videos I posted earlier if you don't believe me.

I love my Hankook i-pike snow tires, though I think I have an old model so I have no clue if the new model is just as good, but! These things seem to handle better than the stock tires in most situations, even warm weather. Winter around here can be finicky so I often find myself driving in 30 degree weather one day and 60 degree weather the next. These tires don't care what temp it is, they just work. And if there's snow on the ground? They're more than happy to cut through it.

I bought Falken EuroWinters and theyre pretty good. I went with these because in WI there are long periods of dry winter conditions. No snow, just cold and salt. These claim to be better in dry conditions compared to a focused winter like a HAKKAPELIITTA. I believe mine are V speed rated also.

In TireRack's testing, the car equipped with winter tires stops in literally HALF the distance of the car with all-season tires on an icy surface...

Defensive driving is always the most important aspect in preventing an accident, but no amount of good driving can make up for a lack of grip in ALL situations. Even the best, most defensive driver cannot account for every eventuality, and having twice as much traction can sometimes be the difference-maker. I, for one, also pride myself in driving defensively... but that doesn't mean I also don't want to have twice as much grip in winter conditions :)

I've had various tires on different cars over the years.
Hankook Ipikes rc01, Michelin x-ice, general altimax arctic, Goodyear Nordic, and more recently the Pirelli ice zero FR.

That particular model of ipike was crap. Terrible wet performance, and mediocre in the snow, worst tire I've used to date.

Most snows will probably do the job if you don't care about dry performance. I wanted something that wasn't going to make the car feel like a wet noodle on dry pavement. The Pirelli's do a good job in the dry, while maintaining good snow and ice traction. Very quiet on the highway. Once these are toast I'm switching to nokian hakkapeliitta r3's. They should provide similar dry performance with superior snow performance over what I have now.

+1 for Michelin Xi3. They're not the best winter tire for snow but they'll get you through it without any issues. The major advantage over the others is that they're very good on dry roads which is 95% of the winter for me.

I believe they're the only winter tire with a tread wear warranty as well.

there's almost never any ice near me. which would explain why i see no massive benefit to snow tires.

I'm in Ohio and have gone two years on Pirelli Sottozero series 2s, sold as 'performance' winter tires. We don't get much snow here but it's always either cold or raining, so summer tires year round isn't an option.

Dedicated snow tires like blizzaks would wear out really fast on four months of cold and dry pavement. Performance winter tires can handle dry conditions better than snow tires and are better the rest of winter than all seasons. I wouldn't want them if it snowed every week, but they're great if you just need something that isn't summers.

You won't see the TPMS light if you store your summer tires in the garage. It only comes on after you've driven about 45 miles with no sensors, so if your commute is less than that the car will just pick up the sensors when you get home at night and never show the light.

Sorry but that is just totally false. They do not wear out faster on "cold and dry pavement." Maybe they did a few decades ago, but now they are designed for that.

the softer winter compound does in fact wear faster.

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but it's not a tire problem.

they also handle better than a bunch of all seasons, which unfortunately tends to magnify that need.

Do you have a source for this?

Ive only ever used Michelin X-Ice (first generation) and they were awesome when new....they kinda sucked when they started to get worn though. There were clear traction differences between new and a few winters worn.

I've also used Continental extremecontact DWS. Winters where I live are too unpredictable to rely on pure summers when its approaching transition time.
(snow may still come even if the weather has been warm for 2 weeks for example). I actually felt like these were working better than the semi worn Xice at some point.

The DWS so far has been my favorite tire. They're softer than other HI-PO tires so the ride is not as bumpy, and the snow and ice traction are pretty damn good for an all season. Not actually sure how long it'll handle the snow and ice (once it gets worn down a bit its effectiveness obviously drops to almost nothing, eventually making them pure summers before completely being useless). Its easy to tell though, they put a DWS indicator on the tread which wears out each letter one by one as the tire is worn down. DWS stands for Dry, Wet, Snow. S wears away first, so the tires only really become useable in wet and dry. W goes next, so then the tire becomes pure dry condition summer tires. Once the D is gone the tires are pretty much useless.

That would lead me to give Continental wintercontacts a try (haven't yet). But I really want to use the Nokian Hakkapellita. Apparently those are still the best winter tires. They're just expensive tires compared to other brands.

Tbh, as much as I hated the Michelin x ice 3, they worked, and in some seriously deep conditions too.

Prefer the Hankook ipike though, never had to seesaw my way out of parking spots with these tires.

Description for the WS80 on TireRack.

https://i.imgur.com/RrS9V4g.png

To be fair, this doesn't explicitly say that the remaining 40% of tread is only as good as an all season, it only says that it isn't the multicell compound.

This is simple.
ANY winter tire is better than summer or all seasons if you regularly experience temperatures below 40 degrees with deep snow or ice.


ANY all season tire is better than summer tires if you only occasionally see 40 degrees, light snow and slush.


NO summer tire should be used if you hit temperatures below 40degrees even if you never see snow or ice.


Yes some winter tires have "better" abilities in one category or another but as long as it is indeed a winter tire it is going to perform better than none at all.