2019 Fiesta ST or 2019 Subaru BRZ
 

I'm thinking of buying a new car. These are my options:

Ford Fiesta ST Mk8 (with LSD option)
Subaru BRZ (automatic transmission, its the only option here)

I'm 1.84cm tall and around 122kg. Fat for these cars I know :(
I'll use it almost every day, mainly on low traffic areas, half nice village roads, half highway (autobahn.) (I make ~25000 km a year)
Cargo space and fuel consumption is important (... for my wife ... who rules the earth! )
I love karting and want a car that would give me some feelings like a go-kart does.
Winters are around 0 to -10 degree Celsius here, and it snows for a month or so, every year.
I'm not a fan of how FiST looks. I'm in love with Subaru BRZ. It gives me similar feelings when I look at a Ferrari 360 Modena. But I just want choose the one that I would have more fun while driving it.

It is impossible to have a test drive these cars in where I live. I haven't seen a Fiesta ST yet but sat inside a BRZ. Its driving position was really nice, but I would want the steering wheel could be extended more, I like it closer.

I don't have much experience on RWD cars, except karting. In driving simulations, I like to choose FWD cars more; and drifting is not my thing. However I like making some donuts when it snows.

I will not modify the car. I want to use it the way it is designed.

Any thoughts are very appreciated.

Get the FiST if you can only get an automatic twin. It's also a more practical DD for a family scenario.

One of my best friends has a FiST which I ride in regularly and have driven.

I love the Fiesta. I think it's good looking (especially 2019), and feels way faster than the BRZ because...you know...torque. Plus, it's easily tuned since it's got a turbo.

Even though I like the look of the FiST, to me, the BRZ looks better. I mean, it's a low slung sports car compared to a compact hatch. The BRZ gets better fuel economy (I average 29-30mpg, or 7.5L/100km). It handles better than the FiST as well. Also, 10 8-foot 2"x4"s fit in the BRZ but not the FiST...ask me how I know lol.

If I were to put it into karting terms, the BRZ is more of a gas kart with a centrifugal clutch where it takes a little time to get going, where the Fiesta is more of an electric kart with instant torque.

If I was in your position, I would get the Fiesta. It feels faster around town, and you can get it in a manual. Not that the auto BRZ is bad, but that's just a personal preference.

Every single cell of my brain and my wife, tells me to buy a FiST.
My hearth tells to go and get that blue Subaru BRZ.. Strong :wub:

I thought BRZ has worse fuel economy. I didn't know that.. With this argument I may convince my wife perhaps :)

I'm from Turkey, we use centimeters, meters, kilograms.. I was unable to understand "10 8-foot 2"x4"s" I googled it and get 10 meter :) So do you mean, you are big like me and can fit in a BRZ but not in a Mk8 FiST?

Your karting analogy made me get into a confusion.. more... I wish FiST wasn't that good, so that I'd buy a BRZ without hesitation.

Past Fiesta ST owner here...

Get the Fiesta hands down (if you can only get the automatic BRZ). Hands down.

Mr Goose (savagegeese) reviewed a GT86 automatic and said it is OK. Why do you think AT is that bad?

The BRZ gets really good meilage, On the highway I get around 36mpg, but daily routine, including autocross I think my average is 29.5mpg.

Sorry about the units. I did the L/100kg conversion, but forgot about the inches>metric one. A "2x4" here in the US is a piece of lumber used to build things. Its 8 feet long (just under 2.5m), and 1.5in x 3.5in. see photo. the Fiesta was just a little too short to fit the whole thing.

I am 6'1", 195lbs (185cm, 88kg) and I fit well. There are guys bigger than me that fit as well.

https://www.canfor.com/images/defaul...rsn=cd8fe991_2

I don't buy my cars for them to be just OK. For me cars are about fun, and the manual is just much more engaging of a transmission.

Disclaimer: I've driven almost every automatic transmission on the market including PDK's, and they don't do much to me.

Additional point: Not only is the automatic BRZ heavier than the manual, but it gets the older outdated engine compared to the MT.

Oh I see :) a few days ago I fit 5 of these woods which were 3 meter long (~10 feet), into a Renault Clio.. It was tightly bounded but very scary for me, since the trunk had to be kept open. If I had a BRZ, I could say to my wife "hey my car is too small, lets pay for it and get those woods with a proper truck". So I wouldn't have to clean the small pieces of woods inside my car :D

Don't get me wrong. I don't judge or criticize what you say. I have no experience on these cars, and want to learn how you feel driving them. I don't like AT as well. It's a big negative for me for BRZ. But they also say, the tuning made to manual GT86/BRZ's does not change anything. BRZ with AT is also fine and gives you the same feeling. However, if you dislike a PDK, I guess you would hate BRZ with AT. So I say nothing :)

I had a mk7 Fiesta ST for 3 years at the same time as my BRZ. I still have the BRZ, and got a WRX once the FiST lease was up. Yeah, I leased a Fiesta...

For driving, the FiST encouraged me to drive like a lunatic, while the BRZ has helped to make me a better driver. I was more comfortable taking corners faster in the FiST at first, and the torque of the turbo made it way more fun to floor it -- probably too often. Alternatively, the BRZ's steering feels more directly connected to the wheels and it is way more fun carve a good line with. The way the BRZ is balanced will help you to learn how to properly manage weight in a RWD car. This will help to take turns with more speed without the traction control farting. Depending upon what your current experience driving is. I only drove the FiST in the snow because I'm a wuss, but with good tires I had no issues. Despite living in farm country with a lot of elevation changes.

I know the mk8 FiST went to a 3 pot turbo, but the old 1.6 felt faster than the BRZ, even if it wasn't. Once the FiST came off overboost, the BRZ would pull away at higher speeds. Still, the FiST was more fun around town and power delivery easier to live with for running errands and what not. From a dig, with an automatic BRZ, the FiST will be faster.

For the seats, if you get the Recaros in the FiST at ~120 kg you'll likely feel too squeezed in the seat. I was just barely okay at 185 cm and 99 kg. If you get the normal Fiesta seats they won't hold you as well, but there will be more room than the BRZ. I could put on quite a few kg with the BRZ seats and still be comfortable. The mk7 Fiesta infotainment was unquestionably better than the first BRZ unit, but if you're comparing the new Subaru unit to new Ford one, it's likely a wash. That is if the new BRZ unit is anything close to the one in my WRX. As for cargo space, the BRZ will hold more front to back (both with the seats down and up), while the Fiesta holds more overall, and specifically vertically. Something to note about the mk7 Fiesta is that while I'm not picky about interior bits, it did have a slight problem with trim and some hvac pipes falling off while driving. They were easy enough to snap back in, and usually it wasn't the same part twice. The driver's side footwell hvac pipe falling off seems to be a problem with the car, but that may not have carried over into the mk8. Not an issue I had with the BRZ. Another note is that we only had the 4 door Fiesta in the states, and at my height my shoulders and head were slightly behind the b pillar. It probably looked silly from the outside, if you care about that.

That ramble aside, there really isn't a bad choice. I'd encourage you to drive both cars back to back for as long as the dealership will let you. If it is permissible in Turkey, ask to go on a longer test drive than whatever route the dealership has planned. Make your decision on your own opinion rather than others; however, hopefully this gives you something to think about while driving them.

Thank you very much, these are very valuable information for me. They don't let us test drive these cars, since there are only 3 BRZ, zero Toyota 86, and zero Fiesta ST in Turkey dealers at the moment :)

Wow, I was hoping you meant figuratively impossible with no stock yet. :) Might be worth noting that if the FiST was a 3 door, I may have kept it. Even with the trim falling off from time to time.

The dealer told me that in a few months, a 3 door, fox-gray ST-3 with an LSD and LED lights would come here. I said: "I want nothing but the car. Get rid of all the accessories, even take out the radio, infotainment stuff, put on 17'' wheels, or smaller, and give me that car, why can't I get a ST-2 something.." He replied "No way! Shut f. up and buy the ST-3! and be thankful for that!" And he got a point. I found that man by chance; after going 3 dealers, making phone calls to Ford center. Other dealers told me something like: "there is no such model, are you mad?", or "yes we have a ST-line here, its the same car, look, its lovely, buy it!", "you see a Fiesta ST in your dreams, there is no way you can buy it!"
I don't care about trims falling off, or 0-60 drag times, or other people to look at my car and say "wow". I just want a car that goes like a go-kart..

I am not familiar with the automobile regulations in your country, but could you buy a Manual BRZ from a county close by and bring it to Turkey?

I’ve owned one AT frs, and my last two were manual. The AT is very good and if you swap the final gear to 4.88 you will be just as quick as the manual from a roll. It’s a very good AT transmission.
I’ve also had two gti (both were traded in for 86) that were much faster than the twins however they quickly became boring, especially when you start tracking the car. You will miss that low,rwd handling.
I’ll take the 86 with AT and 4.88 gears over any hot hatch. Fwd will eventually bore you once the turbo effect wears off. Trust me.

I'm not familiar with our regulations either :) However I know that there is a stupid tax thing. A car that is >2L engine should pay 160% tax. Yes, you have to pay $26,000 for a car worth $10,000. So buying a BRZ is like buying a Porsche in a normal country.. I'm not that rich. My son has an health issue that the government let us to buy a car without the tax. My wife has a Renault Megane for the kids, and its OK for us. And I use a Clio to go to work. Its a bit selfish I know, but she let me to buy a good car.. she knows how I love the good cars, and how I hate the Clio. Anyway, importing a manual BRZ, is not something that I could be able to do, I think.. It's a different taxing process.

A question comes to my mind. If changing the final gear makes the car better then why the engineers of the twins did not do that? Don't they know what they are doing? Or is there another thing that prevent them using a larger final gear? (this is not a sarcasm, I really ask)

Fuel economy, people who buy the automatic are typically not as worried about performance.

By the way, the BRZ is <2L so why does the tax apply? It is 1,996 cm^3 displacement that gets rounded to 2L for marketing.



Sounds like this is a rare opportunity to buy a fun car, do it, you may have to sell it in a year or two as your son grows up and the experience becomes less fun, there will be another Fiesta ST waiting.

Yes you are right. For the BRZ it is not 160%, it is 110%. For the cars below 1.6L it is 30% but Fiesta ST is 60%. There is also a if price gets higher, tax also gets higher thing :( A Honda Civic HB 182hp costs ~140,000TL, BRZ costs ~300,000TL And you can think one TL is like 1 dollar, or maybe worse, I'm not sure on that. A good software engineer earns around 8,000-10,000TL a month here. And BRZ is a 300K car here.. It's a joke..

If I can use that tax opportunity, I'm not allowed to sell the car for 5 years, or I would pay the tax, which is more than it costs. That's why I have to make a right decision.

Given that criteria, definitely the BRZ over the FiST. The Fiesta was a lot of fun to drive, but it is sloppy in comparison.

ETA: 300,000TL is roughly $51,500 USD.

You've made my hearth beat faster :)

BRZ:
+ Goes like a go-kart. Great center of gravity. And its blue..
+ Better steering-wheel feel. Better responses.
+ Better fuel economy.
+ Blue
+ Is lovely
+ It teaches how to drive.
+ Loud inside, blue outside..
+ Here people say Subaru services are better.
- It is automatic.
- It is way slower.
- Bad cargo space, back seats cannot be used as seats.
- People will look at me, think I'm rich, which I'm not, and don't want that.
- I would constantly think if a near parked car has scratched my BRZ or not.

FiST:
+ Anyone who has a logic would buy that.
+ My parents and most of my friends would think it's a normal car. Everybody is happy. No questioning my actions.
+ It's turbo, but has a better throttle response??
+ Better sound.
+ Heel and toe.

I agree! I've been itching to go get a new car and have test driven many fwd and rwd muscle cars...but nothing has even come close to my brz in terms of overall enjoyment and price. And you really dont have to change the gear ratio, it'd be nice, but the little bit of lag helps with traction on the autocross course sometimes. :P You'd be surprised how easy it is to get the rear end loose on this thing with stock tires...

Why FiST throttle response is better, its a turbo. Why there is a bit of lag in twins' motors?

The main reason I hate Clio diesel is the throttle lag. It is awful. I press the throttle before a corner starts, and hope it would give some power when I'm on the apex. BRZ isn't that bad. Isn't it?

The throttle response is really good in a BRZ.

Some people don't care for the power delivery between 3000-4200 RPM. It's affectionately called the "torque dip" For day to day driving it's not an issue IMO. For anything other than that just keep the revs above 4500RPM and it won't be an issue.


I would always pick a RWD car over a FWD car. Ironically, I drive a FWD car everyday. I save the FR-S for fun.

I don’t know why everyone says the BRZ is so slow, yea it’s not as fast as it looks or should be, but iv smoked a lot of cars in my BRZ...including fiestas so yea

0-60 in 6 plus seconds and thats at an ideal set up, dry pavement and clutch drop.

thats why guys say it's "slow" its also "slow" for having that mid range torque drip thats common with most NA tuned Boxer engines. so it doesnt feel like its got any oomph when you put your foot down

that's why

now a days your aunt's camry can put down 0-60 at 5.3 seconds.

Except....the BRZ will beat a Camry...I mean atleast with me driving, I can’t speak for you ;)...especially since the Camry is 0-60 in 7+ seconds

Shot the BRZ is 0-60 in 6.1...a porsche 911 is 4.2...and the BRZ is roughly what $80k less , just for some perspective

Those kinds of numbers are where the driver matters more ...I will smoke a auto Camry every time no doubt

Doubt it.

Camry driver presses gas pedal, car hooks up and it's all over. Gt86 owner drops clutch, spins tires or bogs and then posts video on YouTube showing that the Camry only beat him by length of school bus. Gt86 owner then says it was too hot, no traction etc. Camry owner didn't even know he was racing.

6 months later gt86 owner spends 2500 on ace header, tune and flex fuel kit. Car is now as fast as a Camry. Now, of course the 86 owner claims he bought the car strictly for its handling lol.

I think if you get the FIST, you will always regret not getting the 86. If you get the 86, you will not regret skipping the FIST. Also, for big guys, 86 is more comfy.

Probably worded it wrong...the response from the throttle is great, but the AT has longer gearing than the MT so it accelerates slower and it can feel like forever until it gets going. :P Been wanting to switch to the 4...gears but $$$.

Everywhere I read says the FiST is one of the best handling cars out there.

But it doesn't look like a BRZ. and the BRZ actually has enough storage room, it is amazing how much you can fit in these things. Also, for normal sized humans, you can fit 3 people in the car, my mother and sister fit one behind the other on the passenger side very comfortably.

I'm 6'2" and fit fine, my hair is in the headliner if I sit the seat up too straight though.

since this wasn't brought up, everything in europe gets the old engine.

You can either tolerate FWD or not. Personally, I don't give a shit what a magazine says; FWD always feels like ass. Anyone trying to compare the two on handling merits is fooling themselves.

Like I said driver makes a huge difference...either your skilled at driving a stick or you good enough to get around town

I’m sure most people yes, but some people actually know how to drive a MT