My BRZ went like on BaT today - Wish me luck!
 

Title says it all. Any final bid guesses?

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2015-subaru-brz/

Good Luck. Sharp looking BRZ fo sho

22R

Good luck getting some high bidding!

can you help explain the whole title in montana thing? :iono:

Lax emissions and cheaper registration. The vehicle is owned and registered to a llc based in Montana that I am a member of. No more bi-annual smog or excessive CA registration fees. Many also do it because there is no sales tax in MT.

i doubt it breaks over $20k.

Registering in Montana and driving the car consistently elsewhere is also illegal. If you get caught in California, it's expensive.

Nice car!

Was about to say that's super illegal, also you gotta either tell the state trooper or officer that inevitably pulls you over the truth about how long the car has been in California as well as how long you have been there. Or you lie and get caught and it ends up even worse for you.

Also even worst case scenario, if "everyone" does that then a case gets made against whatever LLC is registering these vehicles and operating them in other states and they get raided or subpoenaed or something like that.

Looks to be an impressive and bare no expense build on the engine and mechanicals.
Plus it doesn't have any tacky, latest from Japan body kit slapped on. Just balls.

That kind of power though, really is best utilized on a car with 11" wide rear wheels, semi-slick. Of course the necessary body kit changes the character of the vehicle (not everyone's cup of tea).

So, this might be considered a sleeper for someone who just loves knowing he has it. Getting it to the asphalt is an entirely different thing.

The biggest and most expensive mod to really make this all work is relocating the engine from the front to over top the rear axle. That will necessitate some suspension work, which I didn't recall seeing.

This has been going on for years. Its nothing new for people who import super cars that arent legal or to get around the tax. I think there has already been a lawsuit but it got nowhere.

georgia was starting to do something about it a while back
https://jalopnik.com/georgia-is-crac...ing-1830035589

Depends on how you do it. When done properly it’s 100% legal. When done improperly it’s not legal and you could be subject to back registration fees plus minor penalties at worst.

I’ll tell him the truth and provide the proper documents such as registration and proof of insurance and be on my way.

Do you think rental car companies register all their cars in the state which they are operated? Or do they maintain proper insurance and registration in the state where their llc is based?

I do appreciate the pro bono work from fine legal minds of ft86club ;)

Rental cars are totally different, as you have documentation showing it as a rental but whatever.

Why selling ?

Not totally different at all. A company owns a car and lets a ca resident use said car.

Ask yourself why are nearly all major companies registered in Delaware? States rights.

My 996 turbo is undergoing a transmission and engine build. $$$$$

OK, with 4 days to go it is at about the normal trade in value of $15,000. Still $3K to $4K short of the regional retail value of a stock BRZ. Things better heat up soon if the OP hopes to recoup any costs at all. Lot's of time left still though.

I’m honestly surprised it’s this high this early on. These BaT auctions typically don’t see any action until the final hour.

Yep, I have followed a few cars on there and the last 4 hours can get pretty fast and furious.
Hard to predict but it could do well.

There was a WS6 last week that hovered around 5k and then nearly tripled in the final. One can dream that my car will do the same :)

See a lot of "BID TO" finishes that must have astronomical reserves.

Or more than I'd be comfortable paying.

Every time I go on BaT I can feel the money start to suck out of my 401K. Good thing I don't own a big storage building somewhere.

Yep!


https://bringatrailer.com/listing/19...o-convertible/

Looks well done.

I prefer the 65 to 69 second gen but that one is well updated by the looks of it.

My friend's low mileage 2006 GD STi went from $17,300 to $23,750 in the last four hours.

I expect this to do even better. ;)

Maybe things have changed as of late. I can only speak to my experience but they were very mindful of setting a reasonable reserve with me. Admittedly I didn't push back very hard.

Since I rent cars on a monthly and sometimes weekly basis, I can say with 100% certainty that the cars are registered in the states where they are primarily operated or were first put into service, not where their headquarters is located nor where their corporate registration is based. If you rent a car for local return, 90% of the time it will be tagged in the state where you rent it.

You are more likely to get a car registered out-of-state if you're returning it somewhere else, since the local offices seem to want to get cars that are not part of their regular inventory out of their garages. But even then, they're not registered in the state where the company is located, but wherever they were first put into service.

I recently had an Enterprise rental in Texas that was tagged in Oregon and a Hertz rental in Oklahoma that was registered in New Mexico. I get a few more out-of-state local rentals in Florida, especially in the fall when the snowbirds rent cars to drive down from up north. I've had NY, NJ, PA, OH and even a Vermont tag that I can remember.

They register in Delaware because of the business-friendly court system and well-developed statutes for resolution of disputes, which has nothing to do with your car tax scheme.

What I think you're trying to argue is that since it's okay to register a corporation in Delaware, it's also okay to register your car in Montana and avoid sales tax, registration fees and environmental regulations in your actual state of residence. But that analogy doesn't hold because Delaware corporations pay sales tax and corporate income tax in the states where they do business and earn income, and they're required to comply with local environmental regulations. What you're doing is more analogous to a Delaware corporation operating in California but pretending it doesn't, then polluting and refusing to pay sales and income tax. That would be illegal.

So you're zero for two in analogies. Want to try for a third?

Every spring our rental lots fill up with cars plated for Florida and Arizona. Every fall they empty out again as those are the ones that they rent out first for the return trips.


Funny you brought that up since just yesterday, when driving down the highway, my wife mentioned it is officially spring since the Florida cars were all over the place.

Those Crawford kits are expensive but the dyno speaks for itself. Any issues with reliability? I heard they can be a bit... temperamental.

Sure, google "uhaul arizona plates" .

I never knew people were so passionate about paying DMV fees.

I think there is a misconception that I own the car. I do not. A LLC formed in Montana owns the car, they allow me to drive the car. My name is not on the title or the registration. The LLC is a resident of Montana and pays all applicable taxes and fees.

When talking about Montana LLCs you have to decide whether you want to talk about the legality or the morality. Legally, this is bullet proof. It's been tested in court before. ( https://www.bozemandailychronicle.co...c0bf7e398.html ).


As for the moral question, I have a personal policy against debating morality online.

None at all once I got a transmission that could hold the power. Its running a very small turbo on waste gate pressure so its not pushed to its limit. I understand that Quirt ran a bigger turbo on his and pushed to 600HP or so before he sold it.

Probably has a proper tune as well? Many of the know issues were not the result of the hardware but of the supporting tune. We are not talking some dude's backyard, Ebay turbo install here.

Tuned locally by a shop named Chruch. The owner there is very adept with the Ecutek platform. Good cold start and idle.

I pay more in DMV taxes than most exotic car owners here in Atlanta.

It's basically robbery to immediately fork over $20k in taxes to the state just to "register" an exotic here. The smarter exotic owners are doing the Montana thing because they don't even keep the cars longer than two years -- those cars simply don't depreciate much within that time frame.

There's a reason why majority of the Bugattis state-side are registered in Montana -- I don't blame them for wanting to save $150k. :thumbup:

That one is on my watch list, but I would prefer a '69 hardtop in yellow (my Grandmother had that one).

I also have these on my "wish list":

https://cdn.bringatrailer.com/wp-con...ro-470x318.jpg

https://cdn.bringatrailer.com/wp-con...28-470x318.jpg

https://cdn.bringatrailer.com/wp-con...97-470x318.jpg

https://cdn.bringatrailer.com/wp-con...51-470x318.jpg

https://cdn.bringatrailer.com/wp-con...-1-470x318.jpg
https://cdn.bringatrailer.com/wp-con...69-470x318.jpg
https://cdn.bringatrailer.com/wp-con...54-470x318.jpg
https://cdn.bringatrailer.com/wp-con...84-470x318.jpg

Three for three. Those are apportioned plates for an interstate commercial truck fleet. "Apportioned" means that rather than having to pay taxes in each state separately, taxes are paid to one state, then distributed among the states where the fleet is registered to operate.

That has nothing to do with your tax scam. That would be like Uhaul registering its trucks just in Arizona, then not paying taxes to the other states where the trucks operate. So this analogy doesn't work either, because it's exactly the opposite of what you're arguing.

That article doesn't say it's bullet proof. It says that it was tested in Louisiana court. The same article actually points out that just because it worked (once) in Louisiana doesn't mean it would work in other places:

"California, Massachusetts and Iowa have passed laws aiming to prevent their residents from using the Montana loophole."

Furthermore, your article leaves out a seemingly minor detail in Thomas v. Bridges that made it all work. The court found that the guy didn't actually garage the RV in Louisiana. He kept it parked in Mississippi. So not only is it not relevant to California, but it's also not really relevant to Louisiana.

Ever heard of "piercing the corporate veil"? The general principle is that if you use a corporate entity to enable or hide the illegal actions of an individual, the veil of protection and/or anonymity normally afforded by the corporate entity is void, and the individual owners become liable instead.

Formation of a corporation for the sole purpose of breaking the law in your home state is pretty much the definition of a sham corporation. Your LLC is not worth the toilet paper it's printed on.

What's more, the CHP has set up a tip site for people to report Montana tax scam LLCs. And here you are boasting about it in public. Personally I think I'd keep that very quiet.

Yea, me too. second gen are way sexier.