Perspective Question: c5z06 to BRZ?
 

Hi All:

I wanted to ask a simple yet complex question. Please forgive me for being a little wordy. I have been internalizing this for a while and I am trying to ensure I make a reasonable decision.

People who come to the BRZ have come from nothing, first cars, commuter cars and faster cars.

I would like some perspective and feedback from anyone! :)

Question

I would appreciate some perspective in going from a 2002 C5 Z06 with 13k miles to a 2017+ BRZ.

Has anyone else come from a higher HP, "faster" car to the BRZ? What were your thoughts over the course of ownership (or deciding not to buy)?


General Change Premise

Yes yes. Power is nice (especially if you have never had such before) but unusable power is unusable when the gearing and power are such that they are reserved for the track.

What does that mean?
1st- 48.0
2nd - 68.8
3rd - 99.7
4th - 142.5
5th - 169.7
6th - 254.5

V8s do sound awesome, however! :)

I do like 405hp/405tq .. but it costs a lot to make that safe, and is really not able to be utilized on the road. :(

I would rather have a car I can use whenever I want (even in race form) than a car that really is just liked a leashed animal sitting in my garage doing nothing. :(

Input Welcome!

I have enjoyed reading and keeping up with this community.

Everyone has been awesome and I have always liked keeping in touch with everyone who has had a Subaru (15+ years for me)

I am not looking for a robotic answer, but some input/thoughts I may have not considered or your perspective is very welcome!

Please note I will also have a rallyX car soon for off-road Subieness.

There is a 2016 STi's. Its current purpose is that of safe, unmodified daily driver for 4-people and isn't going to the track or getting modified. I have REALLY enjoyed being back in an STi which really made me notice that daily usability and "fun" meant more to me.

There is also a 7-seat family car and long trips.


Thanks!

Thanks if you take time to read or provide feedback. It is nice to hear back from people who are excited about cars and don't see them as appliances.

I waivered on my response until I came to this line ^.
You have thought things through and if this is what you are after than yes a FRS/86?BRZ is the right car. Not only are high HP cars leashed in the garage they are held back on the roads. Not sure where people get to street drive all these high HP cars anywhere near their potential. There is something to be said to being able to wind a car out and not go to jail.

Never had a high HP car. Didn't want one. Still not a priority.
There certainly are things to say about adding lightness. Mostly expletives?

Used to be, you could buy a light two door FR car that could actually corner effectively.
Mostly foreign though. Never got on really well with the domestic battle cruisers.

Then came the FF economy utility appliance. Hey, they were cheap.
And then again, they were cheap.

It sounds like this car is right up your alley! You can rev out a couple of gears in these and not get in terrible trouble. It's been said a thousand times probably but: "Driving a slow car fast is a lot more fun than driving a fast car slow."

I would just like to add that I have driven/owned quite a few "slow" cars.

I think everyone should have a chance to driver a higher HP car, and I do think they have a place in the world for some people.

However, at the end of the day, I want to be driving and I want to be pushing the limit of a car. A Corvette has HIGH limits and HIGH costs to maintain the car.

I think the COST of ownership is just too high for me right now. I can afford it, but I am not sure I want to for the return I am getting.

Not specifically attempting to make this a `slow car fast` philosophical debate.

Has anyone had experience moving back from a higher HP car into a BRZ?

I do have an STi, but I really consider that a different move. It is AWD. I have autoXed/circuitXed/HPDE'd WRX/STis. They are awesome cars, but not what I am after right now.

Thank you all!

I came from owning 4 mustangs in the past, all V8's, to a BRZ. My last car was a 2015 Mustang GT performance package with a lot of work done, and I can honestly say I prefer the BRZ.

It was already said, but you can ring the car's neck on the streets without speeding and warranting a ticket, whereas in my 5.0 I couldn't redline 2nd gear without speeding down a residential at 60mph.

I've fallen in love with the aftermarket, how small the car is, and how amazing it handles. It's funny, too, because even while I owned the mustang, I would check out other 86's on the road and secretly want one.

Now, as far as practicality goes, I'm pretty low, and I keep my car obsessively detailed & clean. She's a total garage queen, since I have a daily for work, so in the past 6 months of ownership I've put maybe 500~ miles on it. I could, however, I totally see myself dailying this car without any issues. Trunk is big enough to fit groceries and whatnot, it's the easiest manual I've ever driven, and the MPG is always around 20-25. My intent on buying this car wasn't to daily it though, but rather build it as a project (I won't even say how much I've invested since I bought it, but it's more than the Mustang was).

Good luck!

DON'T DO IT.

The corvette is SO cheap to maintain, modify and run. Actual costs are pretty comparable and the only thing cheaper between my c5z and brz are tires. Any real power in the brz is costly and things that should be cheap (headers for example) are not. Plus the ls6 is infinitely more mod friendly and reliable than the fa20. Plus the t56.... way more durable.

I had a ton of fun and gained a lot of experience with my C5z and thought I'd try something different with the brz (had four lsx vehicles prior). I should've bought another vette, honestly. The whole slow car fast mantra here is overused. Imo it's much better to drive a fast car slow..... and be able able to go fast rather than a slow car always being slow except during certain conditions. Especially conditions that would favor the fast car anyways.

Also, comparing a sports car like the Corvette to a v8 pony car is not a fair comparison.

The brz isnt a bad car, but the c5z is a GREAT car.

I have driven faster cars and I wouldn't say that the BRZ is a slow car. You can easily go above speed limits in a matter of a few seconds. Engine output numbers might seem low, but the weight is low too. Unless you are looking for top speed, better to compare power to weight ratios. They will give you more insight. Another idea is to test drive one and tell for yourself. Opinion in such matters is always subjective.

Hmm... everything about this is where I was prior to getting a c5z06 (mine has 13k miles).

I took it to an autoX, and it was OK.

Then, I looked into getting it prepped for A-Street or CAM-S. That is about 1500, just in tires. That isn't even thinking about another 600 just for 18x10.5s on the rear (cheap).

Then, the c5z06 overheats. I can't even HPDE it until I address that for oiling and transmission cooling.

Then, there are the breaking valve springs. My VIN is right in the middle of that.

So, I don't think the above is incorrect in any way. If you are looking to GO FAST and want power, I do think the C5Z06 is the right choice. However, brakes and tires are easily 2-3x more and you go through those consumables QUICK (ViR is my local track).

This is what I am struggling with. I don't hate the c5z06 at all. It is a great car. I just can't use it and can't commit to throwing down 2-3k just to get it ready to step onto VIR Full.

Thanks for your experience, however. It is what I am still mulling over.

One word.. balance.

Have a ton of HP sitting in my garage but lately I’ve been all about balance and a car that I can go all out and not be sent to jail for. At the same time.. I’d like the option to have fast cars at my disposal. Would I say go for the BRZ/86 and sell the C5Z?? No.. what I’m saying is.. the BRZ/86 will be a nice stable mate for the Z06.

Eh.... when you're comparing it to something with 350 ft lbs of torque at idle this thing is a dog with a horrible powerband. These cars are not fast..... at all. They're a sporty, good handling, cheap, entry level car.

I came from a slower car with the same torque numbers as the 86, less hp, significantly more weight (500+ pounds) and yet the torque dip is still really noticeable/concerning at times.

Personally, I’d rather drive a fast car at 4-5/10ths than an 86 (bone stock) at 10/10ths but that’s just me. I wouldn’t make the trade.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Breaking valve springs is a cheap fix.... aftermarket beehives are 300 bucks? Replacement is easy and doesnt involve a car breaking recall. :lol: take the excuse to throw a cam and upgraded timing chain in. Easy.

Mine never had overheating issues, but they are bottom feeders, keep the radiator clean and make sure the air dam is still there and most of the time it's not an issue. Radiator replacement is a cheap upgrade. Brakes are NOT expensive. The c5z brakes are nothing special and parts are readily available. Like I said, most running costs aside from tires are pretty comparable, but the base is much stronger with the c5.

You're going to run in to overheating issues tracking this car as well and an oil cooler is almost mandatory. It all boils down to what fits you as a driver, but it's good you're doing research.

Thanks. I have thought of this.

However, the wife is cutting me off at 3-cars, and rightly so:

* c5z06 - autoX track
* 16 STi - Daily (100 miles) + required 4-door car
* Fozzie FXT - rallyX

It is where I am at. For this situation, it is either BRZ or C5z06.

Thanks!

I had a 550hp 6.8 liter LS3 FD RX-7 trackable street car when I got my BRZ to replace my S2000 daily driver. Honestly I love the BRZ a lot more than I thought I would, and with a couple of minor mods it makes a GREAT track car (and autoX too I'm sure). I sold the FD last year and honestly I don't miss the power and incredible speed as much at the track as I thought I would.

If you only thought the C5 Z06 was "OK" at an autoX, imo you might as well try a BRZ (or FR-S or 86) and see what you think. You might find it to be a more engaging and fun car to drive, even if it is quite a bit slower.

If you give me more power, I drive faster, which is bad. Very bad. There is fun in acceleration. There is fun in wringing out an engine and still being below or only slightly above the speed limit. There is fun in lightness and quick handling. There is convenience in having a back seat. There is fun in being low to the ground.

They're just parts of different experiences. I think driving my 5000lbs Ram truck is fun, too. Not so fun in the twisties but great acceleration, tremendous comfort, and a commanding view of the road.

A problem with going turbo or supercharge on the FRS is that, in the end, you finish the fun of wringing out the engine much more quickly, and that 1st - 3rd experience is really nice. Being able to get a slip angle or control the car's balance with throttle, all at sane speeds, is really fun.

In retrospect, a C5Z would have cost less after depreciation and running costs than the FRS. I'd still go back and get the FRS for the wringing out at sane speeds and back seat. I'd still skip the 911, 3 series, M3, STI, G37, and Evo.

But if I already had a C5Z right now, maybe not. Selling is a pain. The taxes are already paid. I have other cars for moving children.

Get rid of the wife.. problem solved.

Nah. I am about 25 years in with 2 kids. I think I am OK with the situation.

Thanks for the critical thinking!

Thank you for all the suggestions.

As stated, I have been hedging on the edge of all the basic updates I need to do to the c5z06 to make it track worthy. I also have the desire to have a BRZ at some point. It should be an excellent SSC car as well as TT4 car.

I will keep digesting and comparing. Also, I will see if I can find someone locally to complete the outstanding valve replacement and look up a solid oil cooler solution + thermostat.

Thanks again, all!

Before I purchased my 2013 BRZ, I had a 2008 M3. I had absolutely no regrets selling the M and buying the BRZ. Sure, it had less than half the power at first, but the car was so much fun to drive. For a daily, you can ring it out and still have a blast. I also raced it for 3 years before I received overseas orders. I did not want to sell that car. I've owned a C6 Corvette, 2 MKIV Supras (one that put down over 700hp), 5 WRX's (3 being STIs), and a variety of other cars and I didn't like any of them as much as I liked the BRZ.

Some people will have a completely different opinion, and that's fine. Everyone is different. But for me, for a daily, the BRZ was perfect. If I wasn't in Colorado for the time being, I'd have one right now. I do miss the instant torque anywhere in the rev range that the Corvette had, but the BRZ was plenty adequate.

I will say that I didn't truly begin to love the BRZ until I replaced the exhaust, headers and all, and got a tune. That eliminated the terrible torque dip that seems to plague these cars. That dip in torque is at the worst spot in the range, but it's easily eliminated. Plus, who doesn't like the boxer rumble? :D

It is nice to be able to see your car go above 5000rpm and not think about losing your license. Honestly cars like the BRZ are for people who truly enjoy driving. you cannot truly enjoy cars with over 400bhp on public roads. The irony is that the more horsepower they give you on paper, the tighter the electronic nannies control the car so you lose more of the true road feel. BRZ is not a slow car. Still don't understand how automotive journalist can flame the BRZ for being slow while praise cars like the 944 as truly driver's cars because even though they have only 150bhp, they stir up your emotions??!!

I went from a Twin Turbo 911 to an MX5 to an FRS and it was a good move IMO. The TT was an awesome GT car however you just really can't use the power and it was too heavy to be a decent track car, The MX5 was a fun car however the body roll was just ridiculous and I'm not much for roadsters. I was intrigued by the FRS when it came out and tested one after selling the Mazda. Instant hit. With a tire\wheel package and better springs it ticks all the boxes for what Im after. Awesome track car also.

If more people tracked these rather than jumping into a high HP car they'd end up being much better drivers.

You won't be able to adequately judge the cars from responses on the internet. You need to just go drive a BRZ and feel it for yourself. Either the car will speak to you or it won't.

For what it's worth, I grew up in a family with British sports cars and Corvettes. My dad has three Corvettes right now, including a C5, a C4 ZR-1 and a C2, and my brother has a '72 convertible of his own. They have had some others, and I even had a '74 for a while myself that I traded back to my dad for a pickup truck. I don't know what happened to that car.

While I appreciate the Corvettes, I never really wanted one. I got more out of driving the MGs and Triumph. They had low power, but it was matched to the handling. The handling on the BRZ is better than any of our old British cars, but the power is much higher to match the suspension and provide balance in a similar way. Even now the Corvette team is chasing better balance with the new mid-engine model.

So again, if I were you, I'd go drive one. I would try to drive the manual version if possible to get the most engagement with the car and the most out of the experience. If you can find a twisty road for the test drive, do it. If not, scope out a large, empty parking lot where you can invent your own course on the fly to feel how it corners. Not hooning, per se, but just putting it through a little more cornering than you'll get on the street.

None of us can really tell you how you'll feel about the difference in power. Only you can decide that.

They both speak to me.

With the input and side discussions I have had (and finding a local shop), I am going to go ahead and prep the z06 and hit some TNiA for now. Get some new shoes on it, and enjoy it, per the original plan.

I will be moving into a BRZ at some point. Maybe as a ChampCar. It speaks to me as well.

Thanks for all the input!
https://photos.app.goo.gl/oXfmZSaZUVb4Wcp16


- brian

To preface , I've never owned a car with higher torque/HP then the FR-S.

I've heard a few people over the last few years speak of Corvettes as "old mans cars". About 9 /10 times, when ever I see someone driving a Corvette (newer or older) , its a early 50's -70 yr old fella (no ladies).

The LT5 , '93-'95 , I thought I heard good things about / fast. Regardless, V8 , tires/brakes , it's going to cost more to maintain that rig, then just about any 4cyl car, period.

Go test drive an 86. If I was in the market now, I'd go for a nice preowned '17- '18 BRZ, manual , with PP if possible (or limited 2nd choice)… in the color preferred (for me, Red or Assfault gray). Or, get as good of a deal on a new rig, exactly what you want , but used with 10-15k miles should be $5-7k less money.

So you're basing your opinion of corvettes on what you "thought" you had heard about a very specific 4th gen model (zr-1) and about seeing some people driving their cars on the street. GTFOH.

I eat GTFOH for breakfast. It's like Panda vs. Luke Skywalker with/ without a lightsaber. That's like a MTN Lion vs. a human with a shot gun. Or a 3cyl Yugo vs. a 6 cyl Supra.

To preface my reply: I have owned ~9 Subarus, including WRX, RS, STis, Legacy, etc.. I am currently in a 16 STi and 02 z06 as my DDers.

If you think a Corvette is an `old mans car`, please go to an autoX or HPDE. They are a dime-a-dozen and are driven by all age, skill, and somewhat demographics (especially the C5s). Granted, I feel like I am an old man at times.

I re-read the thread to see if I gave the notion that I haven't driven the BRZ, which I don't think I have. However, there is a HUGE difference between a test drive and anyone who has done (and is relatively fast at) HPDE/autoXes. Hence the need for input from those more experienced, as I am not going to get that on a test drive with a car that is stock and under cambered.

The real question is for those who have come from higher powered cars (~400+) driven competitively and then move back down to the BRZ. I think I am asking for a very few people to provide input to that question, but I thought I would ask.

The Corvette is scheduled for valve spring replacement within the month. I will also be getting some 18.x10.5" for the front and looking for a 275/315 setup to start, I think.

Thanks for your input.

What valve springs are you doing?

Replied in PM since this is orthogonal to the original post. Thanks!

Me again, former 550hp 6.8 liter LS3 FD RX-7 guy ;) Here's a story:

My club's first event this year was at Palmer MA, a great, fun, twisty track with a lot of elevation. I wound up taking the BRZ out in a "Group 1" practice session for FAST cars with experienced drivers. As an instructor in a BRZ I usually go out in "Group 0" instructor group (mostly Miatae) or "Group 2" (fast drivers in slow cars), but I was doing instructor duty and giving a fellow BRZ guy a ride. I was first to the grid, then Corvettes (C5 Z06s & C6s) Camaro SSs, Boss302, M3s, and a winged 135i all lined up behind me. I'm a nice guy and didn't want to hold anyone up, so when we were directed onto the track I just pulled to the side of the grid and pointed them all by, and gave myself a little bit of a gap. Then went out and caught and passed most of em on the track! Didn't catch the winged 135i though...

Reviewing lap times which club sends out to everyone:
I did my best ever BRZ lap there at 1:49.8 in that session, with a passenger. Winged BMW I didn't catch did a 1:50.0. A Civic Type R did 1:49.2 though, so I was 2nd quickest in the FAST group, in a 205hp, mostly stock BRZ :D

To be sure, the club's really FAST C5 Z06 guy didn't show up for this event, he runs 1:41s at Palmer. I never really did that well with the FD there because I ran Nitto NT01s street and track, so no Hoosiers which the car desperately needed! I would run 1:46s and get destroyed by this FAST Z06 pilot and his girlfriend (godspeed, Laura!) who ran similar times to him in her C5 Z06.

ANYWAY, I have to say it was awesomely fun to totally hound much faster cars in the twistier bits of the track, have them pull way away on the front straight and then gather them back up again after the first couple of turns :) Most of them were very good/generous with giving a point-by, it's a good club that way.

Sounds expensive! I run 245 RE71Rs on the BRZ. Just under $700 for a set from Tire Rack!

You *have* the Corvette, so enjoy it! But I think you can have as much or more fun at the track (or autoX) in an FT86...

I will say this: Driving a *very fast* car at the track has made me a better/faster driver in slower cars. Getting into a power-challenged car like the BRZ after the 200+ capable FD supercar, I find ways to put my foot to the floor as soon as possible and for as long as possible to make up for the loss of 350hp! If you master the Z06, I think you'll immediately be fast in an FT86 when/if you go that route.

Just as a note to this, and I am sure that ZDan is aware, each track will favor certain car types just like autoX or rallyX courses.

ViR Full/Grand is BY FAR a power track. So are the majority of tracks I would run (Summit Point, Road Atlanta, Sebring).

With that stated, I have driven 126hp-150hp Subarus A LOT.

Also, if I really wanted to, I could put some camber plates + FSB + RE-71Rs on the 16 STi and autoX that... but I don't want to do that to that car right now.

Honestly, the suspension design of the Corvette (and Miata) are superior. Tirewear and adjustability are superior. That is what had me finally land where I am after 10 years of asking myself what I wanted.

The BRZ... it is just a good, cheap car. I think it will be the "NA Miata" for me (don't fit in Miatas) when the time is right... and I am ready for Champcar. :)

I am not looking for speed/R-comps. Just an enjoyable experience I and my wallet can live with, really.

I agree with really giving a shot what I already have. I really like the Corvette for so many things (versatile), but cheap tires is not a strong point. :)

Thanks for your insight, but I don't think even you are catching many people on ViR Full with even a well driven BRZ PP on A6s. :)

Seems like an awfully big/heavy, front-biased car to be autoXing anyway...

meh, "superiority" of A-arms and "inferiority" of struts is way way way overstated/overestimated if you ask me. I've been in dozens of cars at the track and my dearly-departed strut-suspended 240Z was honestly one of hte sweetest-handling. I did not feel much of a suspension downgrade going from S2000 to BRZ fwiw....
Etiher way, get a decent suspension setup that works and GO! Maybe the strut cars need another 0.5 degrees of static camber, so what... I used to "adjust" suspension between events but pretty quickly decided that trackish setup all the time is fine for street and track during track season. Usually -3 front -2 rear camber, near-zero toe all around.

FT86 will provide that :) And my experience is that while big power cars kinda *need* super-grippy R-comps to perform at the track, less-powerful cars kinda don't. Not as much anyway. RE71Rs for sure work a LOT better on my BRZ than they did on the RX-7, which would easily overpower them. On the BRZ the RE71s are a tick or two *faster* than NT01s, whereas on the FD the NT01s were able to put the power down so much better that they were a couple of seconds faster vs. RE71R!

I did OK there vs. higher-powered machinery way back when in the 240Z (255rwhp, 2300 lb) though ;)

If you are catching Corvettes, Camaros, Mustangs, M3s, etc, in your BRZ, the group is full of shitty drivers.

No kidding... Combination of less-than-stellar driving and/or not-particularly-well-setup-cars and/or wrong tires. Story was never meant to imply BRZ equality with those cars. Which is why I mentioned that a well-driven well-setup C5 Z06 on Hoosiers would be a good 8 seconds faster...

Agree, but pretty good in STU.

Mostly the dynamic negative camber gain and overall better tire usage, only from my limited experience.

Also, being able to adjust the suspension from the factory without the need of crash bolts or camber plates and running a lot of static negative camber to negate the dynamic camber loss is nice... but no, not required.

Really good point and well spoken. Lighter, less powerful cars can use more of what they have, and has been my experience thus far in the z06.

Thanks!

2300 lbs? That is a pretty good PWR. In general, for current cars and general PWR, higher HP, tire for tire, is going to be faster. A handling track ViR Full is not.


Thanks for the insight. All of it is very valid and a good perspective.

dowroa
DO IT.

Your Vette never gets out of 2nd or 3rd gear.
What a snooze fest.

You have seen the light.
Power that can't be used is useless.

Have you test driven a BRZ?


"Great car, but needs more power"
"Great car, but cheap interior"
"Great car, but slow 0-60 times"
"It's slower than a mini-van!!"
"It's slower than a Camry!!"
"Feels like an economy car! Crappy head unit, meh interior, seats don't tilt, no steering wheel controls, no helpful gauges"

These uninformed statements keep recurring, and we rehash.
Let's have a thread that can be used as a reference, going forward.

I am going to collect some old posts and add them here.
Please contribute your salient postings.

Exhibit #1
Does the 325hp BMW M235i need more power?
Well, here is a BRZ against a blue BMW with 125 more HP.
You can skip ahead to the 6:00 mark. What can you conclude?
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMZk5eXT2-0[/ame]



How to tell if your car needs more HP
1) Go to track with your unmodded car

2) Use stopwatch and record a few lap times.

3) Have an instructor do a lap.

4) If your time is equal or faster, then add HP
Otherwise, your car doesn’t need horsepower.
It needs the driver mod.


"Great car, but slow 0-60 times"

Stop looking at 0-60 times. Those people have no clue what this car is about.
They do not understand why BRZ is actually a very fast car.

There is no escaping physics in terms of how fast this car can corner.
Momentum = mass • velocity

If you get beat off the line, you will fly past them as soon as the first bend in the road arrives.
They will be braking while you are still on the gas.
In the curves, the BRZ is one of the fastest cars out there.

Few modern production cars can take turns at the speed of a BRZ that weighs 2700 lbs.
Bigger cars will fly into a ditch trying to keep up with a BRZ in the corners.

I personally know guys posting faster lap times than people driving cars with twice the HP.
And on the street, the extra power is even less useful
If you think the word fast only means what happens when you press the gas pedal, you have a simple understanding of cars.

Go to a track day, and a Lotus Elise is also one of the fastest cars out there.
It has even less horsepower than a BRZ. Yet you don't hear silly people complain that it's slower than a minivan.

The BRZ is very very fast, if you know how to drive a momentum car.
The only performance upgrade you need are summer tires.

People who can't pass in this car don't know how to drive a stick.


"It's slower than a mini-van!!"

I hear this nonsense constantly regurgitated on forums.
You can't make up your own facts.

The fastest minivan on record is the Sienna V6 SE,
which has a 0-60 time of 7.1 seconds.

BRZ has a 0-60 of 6.2 seconds.

BRZ has a faster 0-60 than every minivan on the road.
And it weighs half, so it will smoke any minivan in the turns, as well.

So, let's please dispense with this minivan nonsense already!
Minivans are not fast. Because data !



"It's slower than a Camry!!"

OK, so the limited edition Camry V12 Hellcat TriTurbo is faster than a BRZ ?
Therefore, all econoboxes are faster than a BRZ !!
Wrong, a base Camry is heavier, has less power, and has a slower 0-60

Somewhere in Kentucky some guy strapped a jet turbine engine onto a tricycle....
Therefore all tricycles are faster than BRZ ?

Econoboxes are not fast. Because data !


"Cheap plastic interior. Needs more cup holders!"

People who are stroking leather and discussing cup holders are not the target market of this car.
The BRZ interior is perfect. Why? Because it's light and simple. Zero bullshit.

I'll actually pay extra for manual seats.
Power seats are annoying to repair

This is what the inside of a real track race car looks like.
https://not2grand.co.uk/wp-content/u...ortex.com_.jpg

The BRZ has the most luxurious decked out interior in my fleet !!

• Sport seats.
• A/C
• Clock
• Bluetooth stereo.
• USB jack
• Cup holder (for change of course)

I think it's going to come down to which one YOU prefer. Some people like slow, cheap cars. Majority of people know what they're getting when they get into a car like the 86.

Me personally, I would never want a Corvette for my own reasons. The 86 is definitely my favorite car I've owned.

Honestly you've pointed out the tracks you like all have lots of straights that can use lots of power. Racing is expensive no matter what vehicle you use. The twins are not a big enough seller to get a deep enough discount on anything to make that much of a difference. Outside of tires I bet the costs would be similar, and the twins have a huge issue with underhood temps at all tracks.

Double check the costs for the wearables to see if you'd really save any money. Unless you just want to have a twin, I don't think you would save much outside of tires.