Oil pooled on intake valve??? Related to Recall?
 

Background:
So one day after I got off work, I heard a rattle sound when I started up my 2013 BRZ with 76000 miles, no boost, which also happens to be one of the affected VINs for the J02 recall. The rattle went away a few seconds later so I thought nothing of it. When I clutched in and braked for a stop light my car stalled out. I managed to get it started but heard the rattle again. Tried to make it home which was 5 miles away but broke down 3 miles later. Couldn't get it started and had it towed (2 miles and a cop bumped me about 1/4 mile to a nearby parking lot smh)

Got only one code from my code reader: P050A (Cold Start performance/IACV issue). Tried starting it at my house but couldn't get it to idle. The rattle I heard before seemed to be coming from the passenger side of the motor. Throttle seems to be working as it completely opens with accelerator pressed in. Pulling off my throttle body I noticed there is a good amount of oil in the intake manifold. After taking off my manifold I noticed that all of the valves were somewhat dirty but a valve on the passenger side had oil pooling in it.

Now I'm hesitant to take it to the dealer from hearing all of the issues going on with the recall work, plus I'll have to get it towed there just for a diagnosis and would rather do it myself. Do you guys think this is a valve spring issue?

Attachment 176332

No, this isn't related to potentially faulty valve springs. Seems more like bad valve seals or serious blowby. Are you burning oil? I rebuilt my engine at 93K miles and my valves were prestine clean. Something is definitely not right there.

I'm guessing valve seals too. Had these go on my 3000GT VR4 and I was basically James Bond with a smoke screen. I can't explain the stalling, aside your car breathing more oil than air and your plugs being saturated.

I want to second the oil burning question; do you notice a lot of smoke after idling and then stepping on the gas to start driving?

Nope no burning oil smell or smoke. I do have a small leak around one of my cam covers on the other side. I was thinking maybe the PCV valve is sticking or something. There's oil on the throttle body as well. Also when I pulled my exhaust off I found that the cat in my JDL UEL headers had completely disintegrated leaving a pile of cat pieces on my cat in my front pipe.

I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss a valve spring issue. A week or broken spring could have the same symptoms.

Along with other symptoms that would be hard to miss. Also he is showing multiple wet valves. This valve spring issue is so rare I doubt he is the one unlucky person with not just one but at least two bad valves.

Are you running a tune that has you extremely rich? That would be hell on your cats. Have you checked your AFR lately?

Symptoms such as rattles, stalling and failure to restart? Not saying it is the issue just that it can't be ruled out yet.
Doesn't explain all the oil everywhere though.

He said he just had the valve recall done.... Any way that the work can screw up the valve seals?

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So, you had the recall work done?

If so, I'd suggest you take it back to that dealer.

They can't mess it up any more than it looks to be messed up already.


humfrz

Sorry for the confusion. But no, I have not had the recall work done.

Whoops

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I was running the oft stage 2 v4.03 tune. I havent really been logging but my afr when I looked at it was 14ish:1. I did notice a dip down to 12 I believe when I'd let off the throttle.

Well the other 2 valves look like the right valve in the picture.

Okay so your even more unlucky. Hahaha.

Considering your cats are falling apart and you aren’t burning oil then I’m guessing you are running really rich. Maybe a bad O2 sensor or something or maybe an exhaust leak is making the car think you are lean so it’s dumping lots of fuel to compensate.

Cranking it over I noticed this. Stuck Valve??

Attachment 176395

First question I would ask is how did the oil get all the way back up in the manifold? Did it back fire? or is it coming from a vent tube?
With someone else turning the key is that valve moving? or is it stuck? Could just be up on the cam.

Yup.

They open and close together.

https://www.revvolution.com/image/al...6a9495d7a1.jpg

Time to bring it in, the dealer/manufacture may cover hauling. Call them and discuss, and describe your symptoms and see what they say.

The issue we see here may not be related to your valve springs; however the sounds could be. Regardless you have an issue, and the issue likely can be fixed now as part of the recall for much less.

Too lazy to write it again.

I was waiting for “I told you so”. Hahaha

Didn't seem like a mystery to me (other than the oil part) since his first post reads almost word for word like the recall notice. Almost like a book made into a movie.


https://i.imgur.com/RmvcB6q.png

Lost a rocker?

Depends on which one isn't moving. Closed stays closed you lost a rocker. Open stays open you bent a valve.

Broken spring usually leads to a floated valve that finds the piston and tweaks. Gets stuck in one spot, bound in the guide.

Or worse. That amount of oil looks worse than a bad guide seal imo.

Yep exactly what it is. So valve spring is good! Its somewhere hiding behind the cam. I can jiggle it around. Surprisingly the cam seems pretty much unscathed. I was expecting a lot of marring and what not.

As for the oil Im guessing rocker fell off first -> Intake valve stuck closed -> rich afr in cylinder -> a lot oil blowby -> oil recirculated into intake.

Calling the local dealer tomorrow to see if its worth the chance of spun bearings for them to fish it out.....

Rockers can’t really just fall off, they’re stuck between the cam and valve. Something has to move for it to come out. Considering the cam isn’t exactly flexible, that really only leaves the valve.

The pin holding the roller is known to come apart on early builds. Mid 2014 the valves (longer), rockers and pivots (smaller oil hole for more lift) were revised to combat this problem. So yeah they don't just fall off, the roller comes loose and then they fall off.

Which still doesn't rule out a weak spring even if it isn't broken.
I have a hard time believing that this is a coincidence.


YES I really am this stubborn!

I've seen some pictures of that. Should be pretty obvious if the rocker is in 1 or 3 pieces. Is the shim captured in any way? Or is that small round chuck of steel bouncing around in there as well?

Not captured, it just sits on the end of the stem so yeah it would probably be bouncing around in there too.

Regardless of what busted or came unglued, how did all that oil get up (over) there? Or, did I miss something?


:iono:


humfrz

I can see how it fell out.
Attachment 176407

What am I looking at? It seems to be in one piece. Are you saying you "can't" see how it fell out?

Dumb question...this is a 2013, could this be the result of the rocker arm axle failure that plagued them?

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Well judging by his picture it doesn’t look like the roller is detached so I guess it’s something else. Having one pop out without something breaking is a good trick.

So that roller bearing is supposed to be thin on one side.

I can’t make much out from that picture. It sort of looks like it’s off center if that is what you are referring to. The picture is kind of blurry.

That looks like an intact rocker arm, they are held in place by the spring pressure on the valve stem. I have seen them float around at high RPM or with a broken or week valve spring. To have one come out of position almost always means a broken spring. And Usually you would have the piston hitting the valve.

Update for anyone that is interested.

Did the recall procedure myself. Replaced springs, made sure valve clearances were correct. Two intake valves had excess clearance, not the valve that lost the rocker suprisingly. Took the procedure a step further and replaced the head gaskets. Starting it up i found that the spark plug for the cylinder that lost the rocker was fouled. Replaced it and now my car can now can idle without stalling with no codes however it still makes the same but slightly 'better' rattle sound from the engine, that I could not figure out where it is coming from. It sounds like rod knock/spun bearing.

Given all of the issues with other cars having spun bearings after recall work and that my car likely spun a bearing before the valve job, Im thinking that some of it isnt a problem with the warranty work itself but rather a manufacturer defect that is somehow corellated with the affected J02 VINs

Going to pull the bearings soon when I have time and see if my short block is still fixable.