More confirmation from Toyota on next gen 86
 

I know this isn't new info, but it's nice to hear it from an official source (Toyota Europe head of marketing).

Apparently the Subaru-Toyota thing lives on. Toyota's European marketing boss confirms the demand is there and that Subaru is the joint venture partner for the project:

https://jalopnik.com/the-next-toyota...ent-1833489643

I'm in for an NA FA24 with port/direct injection on a tweaked (lighter/stiffer) ZN6/ZC6 chassis. A mild hybrid setup like the CRZ but with a supercapacitor instead of batteries like mazda's setup would be neat too. Oh and I'd love a hatch this time!

`torque dip 2.0 incoming`

This forum and its “torque dip” complaints. It’s ridiculous. You all should drive a rotary for a year.

The dip really is nothing to complain about and easily fixed.


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A little less "confirmation" and a little bit more "all signs point to yes" type statement.

TCoat gonna have a field day with this.

Im not a huge fan of the boxer motor, so I'd like to see something a bit more revvy (see if they can get it to or close to 8000 RPM redline :p) and a bit more smooth.

Yes and eliminate torque dip, even though I feel like that issue is exaggerated a bit (mainly from the "I've never driven a slow car before" crowd)

sorry, I forgot to place some sarcasm quotes

Yep. I received PMs with the UK tabloid release. Notice the lack of any form of info we didn't already know months ago? Slow news day filler.


So the "interview" went like this:
Journalist (loosest form of the term) - Is Toyota happy with the 86?
Harrison - It has been a successful ‘halo’ product for us.
Journalist - Will the Supra replace it?
Harrison - Supra is not to replace that car. They are for different audiences and are different products. We see a situation where they will sit alongside each other
Journalist - The 86 will have a next generation then right?
Harrison - That is a safe assumption
Journalist - What about declining sales?
Harrison - Its role is not one particularly about volume globally. It’s about adding excitement to the brand and emotional appeal.
Journalist - What about...
Harrison - That is enough now get out of the washroom and let me shit in peace.
Journalist - Fine I have enough to write a story with zero substance that will still get clicks.




You are not going to see anything with an 8K rev limit nor huge HP. It just isn't going to happen. If you take anything out of that load of bunk it should be that not much will change at all. They will not push it into Supra performance territory.

First :lol:

To be honest, I'm glad they are make a version 2.0. I'm quite sure I won't move from the current platform as my wife has demanded she gets to pick the next new car. :( However, I may be able to start a bit of a collection a get the second year model. I just really enjoy the story, awards and let face it the hard work each engineer puts into the cars to ensure that they are fun and affordable. Any car that meets those two points are awesome in my book. Although I'm first and foremost a "driver" and should not be concerned about the interior. I just wish they would call me up one day and say hey does this look "ok"? My reply of course would be lets just not try and make plastic look like real carbon fiber ok?

Docdoc

Well of course not. FA24s don't do that. :bonk:

Oh have they started making a NA FA24?

I have only seen the turbo charged version, but they may throw that into a updated GT86 platform with updated styling.

Docdoc

More confirmation from Toyota on next gen 86
 

I'm willing to bet Subaru has at least one BRZ running around with an NA FA24 in it. It seems like the easiest path forward. Increase the displacement, grab some (again, SOME, Not 100hp) power up top, and leave the torque dip be. If we need the torque dip to have the NA motor pass emissions then so be it. The only other thing the dip ever did was get some keyboards lukewarm, it never cost them any meaningful sales.

Shit if it were Honda, they'd call the torque dip Vtec signature behavior and all the whiney boys would STFU and learn how to drive in the powerband.

The answer:

We are committed to the continued development and improvements of the FA24 DIT found in the 2019 Subaru Ascent.

What makes you think they can't reach 8K?

Didn't say they can't. Said they won't. They are NOT going to bring the 86 into the Supra performance envelope.

A turbo FA24 doesn't. But an NA very easily could if they were interested. There have been plenty of engines that turn 8K with much worse geometry. The FA24 has the same stroke as the FA20. They gained all displacement in the bore. It just needs the valve train and heads to make it happen.

The difference in the Honda VTEC signature is it doesn't dip. It builds slow as shit and then skyrockets. It's the drop before it comes back up that makes it so noticeable (at least noticeable to people that have driven something other than an economy car in the past).

8K isn't going to give an NA FA24 Supra levels of power though. I agree it will not make big power. Maybe 235.

LOL You guys all want that turboed FA24. I will bet you all a beer that the86/BRZ will never see it. Doesn't matter how much the internet complains they are never going to use a turbo in these cars. We will know in a year or two.

Agreed. Although I doubt that we would see an 8K NA 24. My guess is they would red line it about where the FA20 sits.

I never said anything about a turbo FA24.

If I was a betting person, I'd bet on an NA FA24 with a 7200-7500rpm redline, 247-253hp and 187-193lb-ft torque. Wrap that in a car that loses ~50kg and it'll feel like a next gen 86 without eclipsing the Supra.

With you but 10% lower on the HP and torque. Oh and it will gain about 50KGs.

So there is still no hope for beating that minivan :brokenheart:

We should start a thread where people guess the next gen GT-86 specs. The member that is closest wins "something". I.E a nice gift card to GT86 Speed Factory

Docdoc

A Mustang!

Miata

I probably buy the Second Gen's second years, cus the first year is always with problem.

Valve springs

dont Want torque dip?

Just get an AC CobrA!

unless the chief engineer changes, turbo will never happen...

@60 seconds:
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQNGUzDgzmI&t=61s[/ame]

I just discovered Jalopnik is blocked by the pi-hole. I think I'll leave it that way.

You said valve train... Uh oh ;)

If it's a choice between torque dip and pulling until 7k+, or no torque dip and anticlimactic top end, I'll take the engine with the torque dip.

I honestly would expect a higher revving engine before a turbo one. The car is consistently shunned in light of the s2000 having a nasty powerband stock for stock. That may be their next goal - stretching the powerband on track. It'd be a hell of a lot cheaper than redesigning everything around a peaky turbo

I heard the next gen GT86 will run on a 4 wheel system.

Docdoc

yes it will have 4 wheels

One word - Emissions.
Oh and...
Fuel economy
Three, three words.

The 2021 mileage and emissions standards set by most of the world are incredibly aggressive (you younger guys don't even want to know what they are for 2025 forward). The higher revving an engine is the worse the emissions and mileage are. This is why smaller turboed engines have popped up in even basic cars. They are actually more efficient when driven in a "normal" manner as most of the public drive.
The dip is there because they had to to meet current standards not because the engineers were too dumb to fix it. It is also why Europe didn't get the upgrades on the 2017 ATs. If they had to make these compromises at the 2013 controls level how on earth do people think they can up the displacement and revs under the 2021 standard?
I know that people here do not give a single damn about such things but the manufacturers have to or they can't sell their cars. The FA 24 that everybody is so sure is coming to the platform is actually a really good example of this. The Ascent that it was designed for is a huge vehicle and for all intents and purposes it is a truck engine. If built 20 years ago they would have just thrown a six at it and called it a day but now they had to come up with a different option. The problem with that engine in the 86/BRZ is that they have made it very clear over the years that they will remain NA. I just don't see the FA24 meeting all the requirements in an NA form. If they do it will be so down tuned that the advantages would be lost. Subaru also like to hold onto engines for a long, long time so dumping the FA20 after just 6 years would not be their norm.
What is physically possible vs what they will be permitted to do are very different things so asking for the equivalent of a 20 year old car is just not going to happen no matter how much people would like it. The internal combustion engine is pretty much doomed within the next 30 years so be happy with what you can get now.

https://www.dieselnet.com/standards/..._fleet_avg.png

You serious, Clark?

I will keep driving my 2014 FR-S. It is awesome!

I understand they are bound by emission standards, but I also know that a ICE engine is only 11-15% efficient at turning chemical energy into mechanical. There are so many more exotic engine designs on in the labs that are bringing that number up. Engineers are able today to do some very complex computer modeling and design. Even computers with complex design and AI are starting to be able to design from scratch with a given set of variables without humans involved. I don't think the ICE engine is doomed, but I do think they are finally having to brainstorm ways to make them burn the fuel cleaner, produce more power while staying lightweight and affordable to manufacture. Catalytic converters are the real hero's of reducing emissions, not capping HP and higher revs.

Docdoc