Potential protest impacts of avoiding valve spring recall?
 

Since Subaru has identified the valve springs as being out of spec/manufacturers tolerances on a certain subset of 86s, I thought of an interesting hypothetical.

If someone opted not to have that recall performed for whatever reason and was running stock class at a SCCA national event, what are the chances of a mechanical protest succeeding on a technicality?

Zero. There is no way to prove the recall was done. There is also no "advantage" to having the old springs. They are just more prone to being weak/breaking. Not like the cars with recall done would be down HP.

That would be like saying, my friend with a 13 BRZ that is in the recall population but alread blew one up, could be challanged because he has a motor out of a non recall car.

Do the rules require someone being able to prove there is an advantage gained by using non-spec parts? I thought it simply had to prove the presence of non-spec parts. As far as proof goes, I am under the impression that when someone files a mechanical protest, a teardown would be performed at impound once the appropriate protest fees are paid.

The update/backdate rule covers your second scenario.

Found this in the SCCA rulebook, for what it is worth.

https://i.imgur.com/CbAmYZv.png

They actually changed the spec mid 2014 (or somewhere around there) so any cars built after that would have the same springs you get on the recall anyways. There is no performance difference between the springs.

For SCCA Up/Back doesn't classify for "street" class does it?

Also - There is no way they would be pulling an engine at a SOLO event for protest. Once apart, I doubt they would even be able to know what spring is what. I haven't had FA apart, but I don't think the springs have part # on them. If they really wanted to know, you could check recall status on a SN # vs pulling an engine.

The new springs are painted on the end though.

1. How would anyone know you did or didn't have the work done?
2. @xjohnx are you saying that if you participate in a sanctioned event with your street car you have to allow a teardown of the car in the case of protest? I don't do these events but that seems like a pretty huge deterrent for a non-dedicated race vehicle. It's not like it's Formula 1 or NASCAR.

You aren't required to replace every superseded part.

For a national event, there is a protest process. If the protestor wants to tear down someone's engine, a pretty significant bond is required (think shop time rates for disassemble/reassemble). If they are wrong, they lose that money. The protested party could simply refuse, but of course, you lose the protest.

OK, makes sense, as long as you have the option to refuse. I mean, folks are concerned about qualified Toyota/Subaru techs doing this tear down, what must they think in that type of situation!

I can't wait to see the top 10 for Nationals in SCC all be 2013's, that will put the Sawyer National Course controversy to shame.

I mean, going by the letter of the law of the recall provision posted above, they'd have a pretty good argument (I guess it depends on whether anything out of OEM spec fails or if it actually has to give a performance advantage, but in that case, who would be the judge?)

You KNOW autocrossers love technicalities.

If it's a mandatory recall, the grounds exist for such a protest. If it's not mandatory, then no grounds. As noted, it's in the rulebook.


I simply don't know if the recall is mandatory 'cause I haven't paid enough attention :)

Potential protest impacts of avoiding valve spring recall?
 

Are any recalls mandatory unless you live in Cali? Also, are you sure you don’t have the rule backwards? Wouldn’t it make more since to be able to protest someone if they voluntarily modified their car vs being forced to modify their car.

I really don’t see there being grounds for a protest either way. The springs haven’t been upgraded they are simply swapping defective springs with new springs. Same part numbers as the original springs.

Remember, this isn't about valve springs except for this platform. It's about recalls, which could cover nearly anything. If it's mandatory, only the updated part is legal.



The rules don't attempt to differentiate based on whether it's a performance improvement or not, or anything else.


If it's an optional recall, ANY of the parts are legal. No grounds for protest at all.

How many weenie protests have happened due to the Takata airbag recall?

You can not be serious, eh? That isn't really happening.



:iono:

You could always email Doug Gill.

Personally, I don't have a '13, but I'd have less than zero concerns about someone wanting to post a bond to tear down my engine because of valve springs prone to failure.

I don't think any recall is "mandatory". They can't hunt you down and make you get the work done. My understanding is California requires emissions recalls to be performed, but not all recalls. The valve spring is considered an emissions recall, hence the issue.

OK, time for "fun with rulebooks" :-)
It was my understanding that the SSC rules were "stand alone", (Section 20), and the quote from the rulebook was from section 13, which is not a mandatory section. Hence, the rule from section 13 does not apply.
Yeah, I know, "Send a note to Doug." :-)
Mike P

You won't be able to renew your registration in California without first having the recall performed.

The quote above was from appendix F, it only refers back to section 13, which appears to be the rule-set for street class cars, including the rules for which modifications are permitted. How would that be optional?

https://i.imgur.com/JPImPp5.png

https://i.imgur.com/LHC4E6o.png

Looking at the rulebook and don't see anything.

Are we talking about the damaged parts line? So if your valve spring shatters and you blow up, you're blown up car isn't legal.

Or the superseded line? I'd read that to mean original or superseded part. Otherwise, we'd have to constantly check parts catalogs before every event and replace fasteners/etc as the manufacturer runs out of stock.

I renewed my registration last week no issue.

It won't come up until the car needs to go in for smog certification and it will fail the smog check because of a note in the system. For 2013 cars the earliest that will happen is April of 2020. And even then, lots of empty threats and little follow through because shits expensive yo.

But not at all relevant to this thread which is pretty ridiculous.

Can it happen? Yes.
Will it happen? Probably not.
Will the guy who tries this become a laughingstock? Probably.

Yes, the valve recall, because it is classified as emissions somehow, but if it is a general safety recall, does it have to be done?

For example, there is a recall for an inappropriate page in the manual, would that keep you from registering? (Yes, I realize this is for Southeast Toyota only so not applicable to CA, unless you take the car there, but as an example)

Oh it happens.

Local events will tell you to pound sand if you try it but for a national event if someone is willing to put up the money to have your engine torn down then you can either forfeit or concede to it happening. If found to be illegal you're on the hook for your car. If not, the person who protested you is on the hook for putting it back together and paying for the work.

From the 2018 rules for you:
And before anyone gets the idea in their head that a particularly wealthy person could just throw engine protests at people all day....

By the way I can't provide details on it but this has happened or gone as far as to be in committee discussion at a recent nationals. But it wasn't for something as silly as a manufacturer recall and there was legitimate evidence that something might have been out of spec.

This is silly. Who gives a shit? Nobody with a brain would protest you over this and a PC would likely toss your dumbass protest.

Agreed, can we delete the thread in hopes of not remembering this conversation ever happened?

CARB only requires the recall to be performed if the recall impacts an emissions system. In this case, it does.
https://i.imgur.com/IcgcxeX.png


FWIW, the valve spring recall is officially classified as a safety recall. It does still impact an emissions system, they're not mutually exclusive.

https://i.imgur.com/ApvThno.png