Failure After J02 Recall - Discussion Threads
 

I see only frs / Toyota cars as having issues after recall :(


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Should list dealerships that did the work as well so that everyone will steer clear of them

Which dealership did the work?

While I do enjoy the feedback we're sharing, let's try to keep posts sparse to make identifying failures when referencing this thread easier :)

They told me to bring it in so they can check the error code (don’t trust the one at AutoZone) if it is related to the safety recall work...repair is under warranty...if not it is on my dime...

In the customer lounge now...

Update: Oil Control Valve is working correctly now...recommended changing Oil running for five minutes...change oil for second time...checking for debris...wondering if this is sealant related?

Vehicle Mileage: 64,959
Vehicle Make: Scion FR-S 2013
Mileage After Recall Performed:64960 (dealership misread mileage and tried to say 64596 so this may not be accurate.)
Symptom(s): Engine knocking CEL and Trac lights on after less than two days of driving and less than 100 miles. Happened while in traffic.
Failure: No catastrophic, but hard for engine to turn over, and dealer saying to replace the entire engine. Scaring on camshafts, cam tower, and damaged rod bearings.
State: Vancouver, Washington, USA
Dealership Offering Repair: McCords Vancouver Toyota.

I would also like to add that they refused to check the source of the cause after only checking to see if they installed the valve springs correctly, and blamed it on the oil filter and/or engine abuse.

Edit: As of now I've told Toyota to shove it as they want to charge 8k to drop a used engine from LKQ into my car, and bought directly from LKQ for the same engine they tried selling me, but for 1k less than Toyota's asking price, and took it to a trusted mechanic with 35 years experience. I would tell anyone in my area to stay clear of that dealership, and to not get the recall done on yours. From what I've seen it is more of a risk to your car than leaving them in.

If anyone has this type of failure (ie; knocking, bearing failure) after the recall insist that the dealer who did the repair pull the oil pan and inspect the oil pickup in your presence. Also have them use a boroscope to look inside the pickup. These types of failures occur when they let old sealant & debris fall into the engine during the recall. It plugs the oil pickup and oil starves the engine. It's a dealership workmanship issue.

Yeah, and Corporate is backing them, refusing to pay for anything.

It may be worthless but it is something. I would say they failed. This thread makes me not want to do the recall.

If the manufacturer has failed or is unable to remedy this safety recall for your vehicle in a timely manner,
please contact the NHTSA Vehicle Safety Hotline at: 1-888-327-4236 or TTY: 1-800-424-9153 or file an online complaint with NHTSA.

94k miles

Driven 300 miles since the recall. At idle when warm slow and loud knocks. When driving fast loud ticks. Dealer is stating it could be the direct injectors. Bringing it in next thursday because they told me they can’t squeeze my car in for repair or to be looked at. Hopefully nothing happens from now until then because it’s my only car to get to work and back everyday.

Any chance you can update post to follow the template in original post, then update you post with any new info as you hear from dealer?

Please post a video if you can in, if its making a knocking noise, you're best to not drive it.

Anyone getting shit fro a dealership or from corporate should be pointed toward this thread and the other compilation one.

There is IMO more than enough proof that something dealing with the recall procedure is making engines spin bearings.

One possible explainarion for the spun bearings would be small bits of engine case sealant may be getting into engine as they are pullng it apart, or cleaming off the sealant from reused components. Its also possible that excess sealant is being applied to components during re assembly or the sealant is applied incorrectly or in incorrect areas. This sealand then gets into oil supply galeries and blocks or partialy blocks oil supply to bearings or other components resulting in engine failures.

Definitely sounds plausible. Is this how most boxer engines are assembled, with friggin sealant instead of a traditional gasket? What benefit is there to sealant over gasket?

This is common on a lot of engines. Not just boxers. The reason I was told when talking with a Yamaha district service rep is they don't have to account for gasket thickness in their tolerances. I'm sure there are more seasons then that. Another issue with the FA20 is the screen in the pickup tube is in the top of it, trapping everything inside the tube.

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Both worked for me for years (cept on head gaskets) - :iono:


humfrz

From what I've read from the JO2 TECHNICAL INSTRUCTIONS .pdf the valve cover gasket gets replaced, not the head gasket.

So, if they're scraping any sealant, it's from there.

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Also hilarious to me that dealers would give people a hard time about engine knocking days after the dealer themselves took the engine apart, replaced components, and reassembled it lol.

THIS---EVERYONE WHO HAS HAD A FAILURE NEEDS TO FILE A COMPLAINT WITH NHTSA!!

Or simply hold the throttle to the floor while cranking and it cuts the fuel for you. No need to disconnect fuel lines.

Yeah this is crazy most of these have only a few hundred miles after leaving the dealership and they just throw their hands up :iono:

Also had my headgaskets replaced while there. I want to understand after pulling motor apart the tech drove a total of 2 miles and though everything would be okay. Is it sufficient to drive 2 miles after doing major motor work to thjnk everything is okay?

Oil filter is not replaced during campaign.

I would recommend everyone purchase an OEM filter and have it installed during repair to eliminate that as something the dealer can blame any failures on.

Would be cheap insurance.

20A Fuel Pump fuse in Under Hood Junction block would be safer than WOT Fuel-Cut. Nice fat floormat makes that only 95% throttle and now you're racing a motor that you were trying to build oil pressure in.

what you mean by that? Throttle angle needs to be 90 to fuel cut during crank and that s achieved just by flooring the pedal like ermax said

It's set to 40% fuel at 80% pedal down to 0% at 90%. Anything over 80% and the engine would not likely fire ;)

if i m not wrong the table is referenced by throttle angle (°) so it partly depends also on the DBW tables
ergo, it s not perfectly 80%/90% of accelerator pedal, but likely more 100% of accelerator to total fuel cut

The sealant is not from the valve cover gaskets, its form the front cover.

Sealant not Seal. If someone managed to drop a valve cover gasket in the pan and forget it they're having a bad day.

Mercedes has been harping on proper clean up and resealing for years and years. Sealant application is specified as a bead width, usually 1-2mm. Even a 1mm bead of sealant clamped between 2 machined flat metal surfaces spreads out really wide.

The sealant for this job goes on the timing cover, valve cover and cam caps. Yes the valve cover gasket is rubber but you still apply sealant in a few places to aid the rubber gasket. There is a significant amount of sealant to scrape off the cam caps though.

Yes it is OK. A problem may show up hundreds or even thousands of miles after repair work so they have to draw the line someplace. The majority of the time and serious issue will show up pretty quick though so a couple of miles is fine. Some don't even drive it that far.

Update- they say they haven't found anything yet that points to why my rod bearing 4 was eaten. I drove over and took a couple pictures...

https://i.imgur.com/i4PCb4M.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/03ZjEGG.jpg

These two in particular seem worth holding onto

:eyebulge::eyebulge::eyebulge::eyebulge:

That's a lot of sealant. Like a whole lot. One or two of those broken off in the pan and you're done.

That stuff is black. Threebond 1217H is gray. So right off the bat it looks like they didn't use the right stuff. That may not be the real issue but shows they aren't doing it by the book. It's also interesting that they haven't pulled the rockers, pivots and shims and indexed them. They are just asking to fall on the floor. Did you get any pictures of the timing cover? I see the crank on the floor so apparently they split the block. I'm curious how the pickup screen looked.

That really is a massive amount of sealant. See how it bleeds over to the next part? That's one issue. The other is all those strings to push out the sides, as much goes in as out. They aren't really attached and can easily falling off and clog the screen.

Should be added to OP. OP can you add a chart of the common failure modes and frequencies?

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I work for one of the big sealant and adhesive suppliers. Liquid injectable gasketing is pretty state of the art, and it's been practiced for about 15 years.

Those sealant lines are pretty ridiculous. Modern cars are not built to use much of anything, and certainly not litres of liquid gasket.

If someone can get hold of a crank with the failure, check the bore for the oil galley to the failed rod bearing. It will surely be closed up with something. If it were to be pushed through to the bearing face, the material would smear and burn. This could lead to carbonization, which would be identifiable on the journal faces.

The fact that the failures are so heavily skewed to Toyota shops indicates it is a reassembly issue - it's not hard at all to dismantle an engine, but it is quite difficult to get it back together properly if you are completely unfamiliar with it and the necessary prep work during disassembly. Were there also failures on Subies, it would be more difficult to assign the fault. However, Subie techs would know exactly where and how much sealant to apply to their standard boxers. The apples fall not so far from the tree, so it is unlikely this motor deviates significantly from standard Subaru assembly technique.


<-- armchair failure analyst, has done technical background on engine class-actions before and willing to address this from the chemistry side

Most common failure mode seems to be the spun bearings, with many posts laying the blame on old sealant debris left in the engine after service.

Would you kindly mention this in the OP, and possibly summarize some other common failures in the OP as well?

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I'm hesitant to update because we barely have enough evidence to suggest what a common causality would be for these. I have no problem agreeing that it likely is, but I'm trying to keep explicit bias, generalization, and finger pointing out of my original post.

Wow, I knew this would happen.

This very well maybe our last Subaru after 8. This could have been done 4 years ago if Subaru was not afraid to give themselves the bad press of everyone knowing their newest highly used powerplants has a fatal flaw based upon cost cutting.

BOoo.


Can someone clarify something for me? I was under the impression at least in my state the car would have special coverage on engine warranty after this recall is done. Am I confused?

Is there any possibility of a class action against subaru for not recalling this once they knew about it and also apparently not having a proper applicable fix? They should be buying our cars back at this point as nobody in the right mind is going to want to buy a used 2013.