GTA Autoslaloms - August 11th and 12th, Brampton ON
 

For those of you who want to learn the limits of their car in a controlled and safe environment, here is your chance as there are two upcoming autoslaloms the weekend of the 11th and 12th.

Saturday Aug 11 - Push It To The Limit, Bramalea Go Station (South lot)
Series Website - http://www.wiredmotorsports.com/pitl/
Event information - http://www.casc.on.ca/forums/showthread.php?t=25819

Sunday Aug 12 - CASC-OR Provincial Series hosted by HADA Motorsport Club, Powerade Centre
Series Website - http://www.casc.on.ca/autoslalom
Event information - http://www.hadamotorsport.com/forum/...ead.php?t=4416

For those that are not familiar with autoslaloms, these events are typically at parking lots with a course designed with pylons, and the objective is to navigate the course without hitting any cones in the quickest time possible. Autoslaloms are a great way to learn car control at the limit and these skills are transferable to your daily driving for crash avoidance and winter driving.

If you have never participated in this type of event and are new to a car like ours, I would highly recommend trying this to learn what your car can do when pushed. I will be there both days and I would be more than willing to ride along with anyone that's looking for help or advice.

If you have any questions, feel free to post here and I'll do my best to answer.

i'll be there both days

gonna push the stock tires to their limits

I HIGHLY ENCOURAGE ALL FRS/BRZ OWNERS TO COME OUT

especially if you are stock/close to stock

this is the perfect time to get some baseline numbers on our cars before everyone and their grandma starts to modify them

also will give us bragging rights so we know who the fastest man (or girl) around is! :D

Bummer, I'm out of town that weekend.

I feel like racing around some cones in a parking lot is about my speed :)

Can I come in my beater? LOL

you can bring any car so long as it passes tech, which usually means no loose parts and functioning breaks with sufficient pad life.

but why bring a beater when you have a normal car?

why do people think that racing puts strain on your vehicle, you'll see more stress running over 1 big pothole than you will in an entire autocross weekend.

Have you done any of the Twin Lakes events? That parking lot at the Molson Centre is huuuuge!

How does the Powerade Centre compare?

Powerade Centre is a smaller lot but the course we plan to use for this event will have a lot of nice technical elements. Our cars should handle these well.

Molson Centre is probably the only good lot in the area (still think Bronte was the best), unless you're willing to go to Scotiabank Place in Ottawa - that lot is at least 5 times the size of BMC.

ive only done a few autocrosses, actually. I'm more of the time attack guy but with the new car i want to learn rwd in a slightly safer environment

although i did do a few sessions at Mosport International Raceway this past weekend without meaning too (decided to go out during one of the student sessions just to pop the car's cherry)

but i have been to the powerade centre, and personally "I" think it is a poor venue for autocross, there are quite a number of lightposts withssolid concrete bases and curbing is only a few feet away if you happen to screw up.

granted there haven't been any incidents that i know off, but you never know. The course can be pretty technical though due to the layout.

this will be my first time up in brampton

I'm in! Do we just show up and pay or do we need to sign up before hand?

show up and pay

just bring a helmet and masking tape

but do come early, registration starts at 7:30 and you should be ready by then. This will give you ample time to talk to people and have questions answered. Also get you awake and ready for the driver's meeting, which is very important and should command your full attention.

the two things that tend to slow down most events are late registrations and competitors who did not show up, listen, or comprehend what was said at the drivers meeting.

Fill out the forms below and bring them with you on the respective day - just saves you from filling it out the day of:

Saturday - http://www.wiredmotorsports.com/pitl...event_form.pdf

Sunday - http://www.casc.on.ca/sites/default/...slalom_reg.pdf

A few tips for the day of - make sure your car is empty of loose items (ie floor mat, drink bottles, sub woofers in the trunk, etc.), inflate the tire pressures to at least 44psi, bring plenty of water/liquids to keep yourself hydrated, and sunscreen. If you have a tire pressure gauge and pump, it wouldn't be a bad idea to bring those too.

btw which class is a stock FRS in under ontario rules?

and did you guys change the street tire rules for the provincials?

CASC-OR is using SCCA classing, so based on what I've read, the FRS/BRZ will go in C stock. I have no idea where they will place it in the street tire class but I have seen modded ones in STX. Someone posted in the AX/Track forum they (SCCA) won't decide on the ST class until after their Nationals.

As a side note, the PITL (Saturday) event uses their own classing, and from what was discussed, the FRS/BRZ will be in A class for that series.

I'm not sure what street tire rule you're referring to, Serge. I don't have any involvement with CASC-OR, nor do I care to - we're just the hosts.

My first event I got stuffed in STX...

i mean, you guys have the 2% time reduction for street class? (PITL)

also i haven't been following SCCA at all so i have no idea what they do with their street tires.

autoslalom had their own, ST1 ST2 and STU categories but i'm assuming after adopting the SCCA ruleset that got changed, but again i have no idea how the SCCA work, it seems to be an even bigger headache than what we had before :D

^ Ah ok - yeah, PITL still uses that 2% rule.

Don't get me started on the SCCA classes, lol. Not only did I have a bitch of a time classing my car for Nationals, I think this year has had more underfilled classes than previous. But at least CASC-OR is now aligned with ASN and the rest of the country.

We need to have a helmet?


Thanks - first time doing anything like this... so any tips are appreciated!

Any driving tips? What should we aim for - precision or speed?

TY!

yes, you need to have a helmet

any competition/lapping event worth their value will require to have a helmet. Any organization that leaves it as an option is not thinking straight or looking far enough.

it's riding a bike without a halmet, 99% of the time nothing is going to happen, but do you really want to see how strong your brain is that 1%?


as for what to aim for, in autocross, the number one skill you need to learn is HOW TO MEMORIZE THE COURSE QUICKLY

every autocross event will be setup in a unique pattern, assuming the organizers are smart people you will never repeat a course design. Even if some elements are common (slalom, 180 turns, etc) they will be spaced differently and require a different pace/angle of attack.

This is the main difference between track driving. The track never changes, it's like golf, every time you go out you try to perfect your line in your car on that track. For most people it takes years of casual lapping/racing to "figure it out"

autocross requires you to learn in a single day and then forget it forever, you have a track walk in the morning and then 5-7 attempts (depending on size of competition) at setting your best time.

So memory is key.

if you know what kind of turns comes next that's half the battle of completling that turn quickly. If you're not sure of where to go, you'll naturally drive slower, you'll brake more, coast longer, and have a sloppy line, all of which ends up with you with a slow time.

the second most important skill is understand where your car is in space. A knocked over pylon costs you 2 seconds. Events have been won by competitors who are slower but have clean runs vs fantastic drivers who knocked over a cone or two. 2 seconds in autocross is a life time.

So take a clean line, know where the nose of your car is and where the tail is. People think they know their car, they don't know shit. Try randomly parrallel parking 10 times in different locations, 1 attempt each try. If you're not within 1 inch of the curb every single time, then you will always have something to work on.

SOme people do left turns well, some do right turns well, but everyone out there has room for improvement.

One trick in the FRS to keep in mind are those bulged at the front. THey tell you where the center of the wheel is. Use that knowledge to navigate the car. Also try looking out the window (if you can). THe problem with modern cars (and partly due to SUVs) is that the doors are too high, you can't lean out.


so these are the basics

the other funky stuff like clutch kick drifting, heeltoing, drift feighning, etc, that's all learned at the track, behind the wheel. You can watch all the best motoring videos in the world but until you sit in a car with an instructor pointing things out you'll never get it.

So come out this weekend, and hopefully every single other weekend from here on until you die.

^ Yeah, more or less what he said. Since it will be your first event, just make sure you come with an open mind and an understanding that you will not be fast at all. What you want is to learn the basics of this sport - vision (reading the course), what your car/tires are trying to tell you, how your car reacts based on your inputs, etc. The speed comes with seat time.

Another key is to get experienced people to ride along with you, so you they can see what you're doing and offer their advice. Also, you will want to go on ride alongs with as many people as possible, to learn what they're doing. Everyone will have a different style, so you'll have to figure out (over time of course) what works for you. Most people will be more than willing to ride with you/offer ride alongs, so don't be afraid to ask. Again, I'm more than willing to ride along as well - I'll make sure to look out for you/your car, as I won't have my BRZ there on the Saturday, at least.

Thanks every1!

Awesome Bryan, I'll take you up on that offer!

BUMP

this is tommorow and sunday

be there or be square

yes i said square!

prove who's the fastest FRS around

Personally I hate wearing Helmets for AutoX events. Just seems like there isn't anything to hit lol. Maybe some cones.

I don't even like wearing helmets when I head to DDT or Shanny but I do anyways because I don't feel like dying.

I can appreciate wearing a helmet if it is for insurance purposes (for the club renting out the parking lot or what-have-you)... But what is a helmet really going to do if I crash? I'm surrounded by a couple thousand pounds of metal that is designed to protect me in the event of a collision or roll-over. Also, I'm a bit worried about adding the helmet variable to safety technologies like active headrests and side-curtain airbags.

That being said, I own a Snell 2010 helmet that I wear at every event where it is required. It does make the racing feel a little more official... because racecar helmet.

But if you drive within your limit, you should be ok and never need a helmet, right? :sigh:
Safety should ALWAYS be a priority, even if there is low risk - risk is STILL risk. You'd think that nothing could happen in an autoslalom but in my 9 years of doing this I've seen cars hop curbs, hit poles, cars almost colliding with each other, etc. People have that false sense of security that if they drive within their limit nothing will ever happen to them, but that's the wrong attitude to take. Ever hit your head on the door frame getting out of your car? Would you like to experience that with a much greater force?

Sorry, but I don't take safety lightly - I've seen several friends get hurt even with helmets, and I think what could have happened if they weren't wearing them. As a sanctioned CASC/ASN/FIA club, we take safety very seriously, unlike some other "clubs".

Off topic/rant over. If you want to debate helmets, go to the tracking/autox forums.

Thanks Serge for the bump - should be a good weekend for cone carnage.

Helmets suck until you need it

It just helps to prevent blunt force trauma from smacking your head around in the worst case scenario

Also not all cars have side curtain airbags.

I know ive banged my head a few times on the b pillar when the car would snap on me.


Also modern safety equipment is designed to keep you alive, a helmet will increase the chances of you walking away without a scratch.

If your seatbelt fails,
Front window
A pillar

If you snap or hit something hard and fast while going lateral
Side window
B pillar

In the event of a front collision with an immovable object (like a wall or light post)
Steering sheel
Your own hand (imagine the airbag going off as your hand is crossed on the steering wheel, the airbag shoots out and you just Mike Tysoned yourself into a coma.)

In the event of a roll, as your windows are usually down, your face head is exposed to all manner of foreign objects. Imagine you tip and fall down on a 2 foot pylon that's aiming straight for your head, it could tear your jaw off if it connects right.

I didn't mean to insinuate that I wasn't concerned about safety, or that event hosts shouldn't require a helmet. I was merely ponificating on the potential impact of other safety equipment in the car. You're right though, this isn't really the place to discuss it.

All the best for your event this weekend - I wish I could make it out, but I leave for Ottawa this afternoon.

I'm interested to see the results of the FR-S/BRZ drivers that attend.

Cheers,

Colin

There is no doubt that a helmet is safe. I was refering to in AutoX. I've only attended AutoX in BC and the events that I went to were done in HUGE parking lots. There is NOTHING to hit. Drivers go one at a time and if you mess up the only thing that will happen is you smoke a cone (which sucks). At those tight AutoX events and the low COG I really don't know if it's physically possible to flip the car over. I mean I can only get to 60mph at best in those complex events. The helmet seems to just be something I had to wear more than something that was needed. In a real track a helmet is always a good idea. But so is a racing harness and racing seats. I have no clue how people hold on in Shannonville without a racing harness and seats. I slide all over the place. I'll admit I've done a few rounds of DDT with the windows down with no seat belt and helmet with one hand. I had the track to myself for 5 minutes. :) Didn't go very fast though. Just cruised around stayed in 3rd gear.

First event done and only 3 FRS's showed up including myself, the other two guys were not even on this board,

i am dissapoint, fail on all of you. Hopefully tommorow we'll see a bigger turnout.

^ Will be there lol.

Woke up too late today...

I'm assuming we can come by and watch? I'd participate but I haven't gotten around to getting a helmet yet :(

there MAY be loaner helmets, at least there were today (Saturday) with complimentary head caps.

but yes, spectators welcome.

Planning on getting a helmet on Tuesday, then I'll start coming to whatever events are left.

I was up at Brampton, it was a good time, especially in the rain!
I didn't make it to the event on the 12, did any other FR-S/BRZ show up? Did y'all have fun?

Only Brian showed up in his BRZ, (he drove the white integra on Saturday), so the two of us duked it out

no one from this forum showed up, shame.

our class, STX, had some tight competition. Everyone but us had StarSpecs or RS3s, i think the Civic was on Yokohamas. So with the proper tires it would have been us on top :burnrubber:

2006 Honda Civic Si 38.653
2001 BMW 330Ci 39.155 +0.502 +0.502
2001 BMW 330Ci 39.396 +0.241 +0.743
2012 Scion FRS 39.452 +0.056 +0.799
2011 Ford Mustang GT 39.477 +0.025 +0.824
2012 Subaru BRZ 39.519 +0.042 +0.866
2002 Nissan Sentra 39.641 +0.122 +0.988
2003 Infiniti G35 40.588 +0.947 +1.935

When is the next event? I work like 7 days a week but I'll try to come out next time (with an Integra Type R though)

Wow, the stock tires are terrible yet they make the car dance at the same time. It's probably going to take me at least another event or two to get really comfortable with the car as it's completely different than what I'm used to.

Serge, our times were close and considering that we were only a second off of class FTD, just imagine if we had anything else BUT the Primacys.

Did you find the car pushed a lot with the Primacy's? Or is that my poor driving technique?

I think with Yokos or Dunlops we would have easily contended for top 10 paxed times.

and STX offers so much modification possiblities that we haven't even touched, even something as basic as alignment and better brakes.

on the other hand i don't think our STX competition is all that great (at least the ones that showed up), don't tell them i said that though :)