Valve spring recall - CEL and Slip Light now on
 

Just as the title states. I dropped off my 2013 frs (105k miles) last Wednesday, 1/19 for the recall. They did the work as well as replace the spark plugs that I supplied which I was gonna do myself but might as well asked them since the engine was gonna be out.

Fast forward to today, I picked up my car before I went to work. Drove it for about 20 minutes to get some breakfast. Got back into my car and drove for about a minute then all of suddenly my CEL came on along with the slip light. I called my dealership stating the problem and they said to bring it back. I couldn’t because I had to open up the store for the other employees today.

I won’t be able to bring my car back to Toyota until Tuesday or so because of work. My only concern right now is getting my car back home and it’s supposed to snow later this afternoon. I have blizzaks but having the slip light on worries me.

Just curious if anyone has experienced the same problems after they had their car serviced for the recall?

It's probably just a sensor left disconnected. Without a code though it's pretty finger in the air.

Need to see what code it threw.

Just dropped off my car at the same dealership. They’ll update me on Monday which I’ll do the same here

Keep us updated...interested to see what they screwed up. I assume you did not have the CEL before they touched it?

dealer told me mine threw a CEL after the work, so I didn't pick it up yesterday. Waiting to see if they can resolve it. They think they broke a cam sensor during the reinstall.

Great...as predicted.

Cam sensors look like a 2 minute job. If they broke one, swap it out and move on.

If one of the cams is out of time... start over. That one hurts.

Finally got an update on my car this morning. So VVT gear is bad, not sure how and I’m not that mechanically inclined to explain any more on that :iono: The part(s) they need is on backorder so I’ll be driving this rental corolla for another week or so. So much for hoping it being only being a disconnected sensor or something but hey I’m getting new parts

Cam sensors are not a 2min job. They have to be shimmed properly. Not a big deal but not 2mins. The connectors on the cam sensors are very vulnerable and easy to snap off. I was ultra careful when handling my timing cover while I had it off for fear of messing up one of them. It would be so easy to toss the cover on a bench and snap one of them. These are the sort of mistakes I would expect from dealers until they get used to doing this job.

Oh fun.. they are entering into the VVT cat and mouse game.

You guys aren't helping my "keep calm" coefficient, which is usually pretty good. Dropped mine off on Tuesday for the recall. Mine's the first one to be done at my dealership, and only their "master technician" will touch the car, I'm told. Here's hopin'....


And...ummmm... the loaner Corolla.... just.......ewwwwwwww. Appreciated, but......ewwwwww. Forgot about just how much I hate FWD.... torque steering...no immediate control when sliding. As an economical appliance, it's probably great. As a driving experience, it rivals a coasting toaster. Nah...the toaster would probably be thrilling in comparison.


edit... and.. it's an AT, so it can't be a real driving experience... ;)

Like I said, if it was a broken sensor they probably would have swapped it out and not said anything, no need to get someone worried over that.

Now it's getting torn down again. Either had a cam set a tooth off, or the gear installed incorrectly, or the gear "went bad" while sitting on a bench for a few hours.

It's possible to crack a connector and not immediately get a CEL and then release the car to the owner. I doubt they set the chain wrong, that would be super rookie. Everything is keyed on these gears so it's kind of impossible to put them on incorrectly especially if you don't take the actual gear apart. When I did my rebuild I did take mine apart to make sure they were clear of any potential bearing material. There is a little spring loaded door that can fly off which then allows a valve to fall out. Maybe it flew off and they didn't notice or maybe they did notice and then put the valve back in backwards (because it can go in either way and only one way is correct and the manual doesn't talk about the orientation). Anyways, there are lots of threads around here with people going around and around trying to resolve VVT issues. Replace OCVs, reshim cam sensors, replace cam sensors, replace gears, ecus and on and on. Let's hope he doesn't go down this road.

Thanks for the "heads up" there ermax.

However, like ol @MuseChaser expressed, it ain't helpen me being calm about this process.

Yep, my machine is on the recall list. Yes, I know, because I have the recall notice sitting on my desk (unopened).

Question for ol @Tcoat , if I don't open it up, and decide NOT to have the recall done, will they know that I received the notice?? :popcorn:

Right now, I'm more concerned about getting hot water into the house.

:mad0260:


humfrz

If you take your car to the dealer they will want to do the recall. Some states (California?) won't let you renew your registration without completing the recall.

They can't require you to come in. If you don't want to get it done, don't get it done. Recalls never expire. Never. If you hold off and a spring fails in 10 years, it will all be fixed under the recall.

Where I work there is an older car with a recall from 10+ years ago. Oil in the engine harness. Most of those cars don't come to the dealer for service. When they do come in with a check engine light, oil in the harness, oil in the O2 sensors, oil in the MAFS, etc. it all gets fixed on the recall. If the recall had been performed when it came out they would probably never have these issues. But they definitely wouldn't be getting thousands of dollars of parts for free.

Oddly enough, I've never had a recall on any car I've owned. 10 vehicles of varied brands over 17 years. Must be lucky

There will be some issues with a small percentage of the repairs since shit happens. It will likely be well under 5%. If there is an issue they will fix it. It COSTS them money every time there is a problem since they will not be reimbursed for that additional work. We rarely hear when things go well so the whole perspective is skewed to the bad. I have already said that if it was me I would not get it done. Not because I am afraid they will screw anything up but because at 120,000 miles if it hasn't failed it isn't likely too.

OK. Thanks for your insight - :thumbsup:

So, are you sure that the bolded statement in your post, holds true for the state of Washington?


humfrz

Recalls aren't governed by state law. They should be consistent across the US.

OK, oh wise one. If your car was the same age but only had 23,000 miles on it, would you feel the same way?


:iono:


humfrz

No I would not and ZI would get it done.

This is written on the cover page of every recall I deal with.

"Prior to performing this Recall Campaign:
 Please check VMI to determine if the vehicle is involved in the Campaign and if it has been previously repaired.
 Please review the entire Recall Campaign bulletin and follow the repair procedure exactly as described.

Please note that Recall Campaigns do not expire and may also be performed on a vehicle with a vehicle status indicator."

Their emphasis, not added.

Got it.

Thanks for your follow up - :thumbsup:


humfrz

No problem :thumbup:

I've done recalls on cars from the '70s, warranty work on a 30 year old car :( They're always really nice cars too, seeing as they haven't been to a dealer in that entire time.


Quick story time. There was a diesel in the late 70s early 80s that had a "soot trap" on the exhaust. Basically what a diesel particulate filter is now, but they were mechanical engines and had no way to do a regeneration or burn them out. They slowly filled with the black soot junk and had to be replaced, I believe it was every 50k service. I'm sure it wasn't cheap, and Jimmy's Lube and Tires wouldn't have any idea, so they never got changed.

Eventually they would plug up and explode, right on top of the engine under the hood. Someone decided that was a bad thing. Instead of offering free replacements for life, they issued a recall to remove the soot trap and install a straight piece of pipe, eliminating it completely.

I had to do the recall, would have been 2014 or so. Car had 100k + miles on it, with the original soot trap. The guy had been driving around literally with a bomb under the hood for years and years. I think the recall payed 4ish hours, I lost time on it. What a pain.

We still have 70s/80s cars come in with open recalls, subframes that crack and fail, clips to hold the gas pedal in, etc. If those cars don't come to the dealer for any service they just drive around with potential major issues for years.

Now, THAT brings to mind a recall story (I'm sorry - I just can't help it).

I think I've told this story before, but we shall see if ol @Tcoat is payen attention.

It was a hot day in July in California, when I opened up my mail and discovered a recall notice for my brand new 1970 MGB-GT.

The weekend before, I had just wrang it out, screaming up in the hills to Mt Hamilton.

The recall said that I was to immediately have my MG transported to the closest dealership for repair - BECAUSE, THE STEERING WHEEL LOCKING MECHANISM ON SOME CARS WAS LOCKING while the car was moving and under hard right hand turns - :eyebulge:

So, the next day, I charted a course from the southern part of San Jose to downtown San Jose, MAKING ONLY LEFT HAND TURNS, to get it "fixed".


THE END


humfrz

Yep, repeat. It' ok, you need a hot shower.

105k (problem free I'm assuming) miles!? I would have skipped the recall

Hey guys so I finally got my car back again earlier this morning. Car is running great as of right now. I’ll see how it does in the next few days. As for the check engine light this is what is written on my invoice:

“Cause: p000b cam position b timing slow response bank 1, p0014 cam position b timing over advanced or system performance. I active tested both exhaust vvti systems and found bank 1 had a delay. I swapped the oil control valves and found the delay followed the ocv to bank 2. I road tested the car 55 miles and could not get a code to set, monitor passed.

Correction: replaced bank 1 exhaust vvti solenoid. Active tested the vvti system and the delayed engagement did not happen, road tested 14 miles, the monitor is complete and the code did not return”

So to my understanding (still not that mechanically inclined) it was my vvt gear? Oil pressure wasn’t getting high enough to drive in higher rpms?

I wouldn't do it if it survived break-in.

Thanks.

I'm kind of leaning that way - "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" - has served me well, over the years (most of the time - ;)).


humfrz

This is a classic example of one of my mantras "It'll either break right away or it'll last forever."

Bathtub curve.

What about when a recall fix was performed but the part goes bad later anyway? We had "the fix" on the rear brake lines on our 06 OB done way back when, a year and a half ago they rotted through anyway. Subaru wouldn't even consider working with me on replacing the lines at that time because the recall had expired.

For these springs the first component of the curve dominates. Especially, those engines that survive cold start in Minnesota and Illinois in the next few days. ;)

Yep, in my case, many cold starts, run till just get warmed up, shut down.

I would think that if a valve spring was going to come unsprung, it would have done it within the first 5 years - :iono:

Besides, you know how many of those pneumatic screen/storm door closers you have ran across - that have failed?

Now, compare that to the old screen door closing springs that have worked for years and still work.

:popcorn:


humfrz

I would double check that. I was told by the service advisor at the Toyota dealer where I had my recall done that if you avoid the job and your engine blows as a result, they may not actually cover it.


Don't know where the legality stands on that, but I thought I'd pass this along.

Valve spring recall - CEL and Slip Light now on
 

No, sounds like all they did was replace a bad OCV. There is one on each gear and to troubleshoot you swap OCV’s between banks to see if the CEL follows. If it follows then you know you have a bad OCV. Most likely they cracked the connector on one while handling your timing cover.

OCV = Oil Control Valve. They are referring to it as a solenoid because that is what it is. The OCVs work in a feedback loop. They pulse on and off at different rates of speed which controls the flow of oil into the gear while monitoring the cam angle sensors. If the ECU wants a specific angle and doesn’t see the result it expects in the cam angle sensor within a specific amount of time it throws the slow response CEL for the bank in error.

@Pinoy_FRS correct me if I'm wrong but I think its the intake cam that is variable, not the exhaust?

All 4 cams are variable.

OK, you're back in my good graces - ;)


humfrz