Supra (Toyota/BMW) vs. FT86 (Toyota/Subaru)
 

Everyone is saying Toyota can't even build a sports car.
They just need to recycle a BMW.

What was the split for the FT86 ?
Subaru engine and Toyota chassis?
Or was it all Subaru?

Who designed the non-engine aspect of the BRZ?

and this:

https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5274

op must really live on the sun :bow:

It (the new Supra) does seem as if this was Tada-San's attempt at making a more refined version of the 86 and with a turbo & more horsepower, there are many similarities from the sheet metal, handling, weight distribution, etc. -- e.g. like the 86 the new Supra is more track car than last gen Supra (which was more GT car).
Thing about the 86 though (and this comes up here in the forum topics often) is much of the appeal (for some of us, not all) is the low price, modest power, and raw feel; which is precisely what older (affordable Toyota) sports cars were all about.

I am curious to see a list of what on the Supra is actually Toyota beyond the bodywork though... Would be a nice comparison to see what car is more Toyota than Subaru/BMW. Hopefully somebody compiles a list like that down the road.

I would have to believe that it does not share any common parts suppliers like the Twins. The parts are almost certainly exclusively BMW sourced and common to no Toyota. I am sure that somebody will dig up that info.

$50,000 for Supra, thanks but no thanks. I would get Shelby GT350 for $45,000.

The link that tcoat posted is amazing

I stopped for gas one day, and a Mustang owner at the next pump came over to ask me about my BRZ. No, it's not fast, I said. Yes, it handles great, I said. Then, when he ran out of questions, he just stood there staring at it with a sad look on his face. I said, "Okay, gotta go." He was still standing there watching as I drove out of the station.

That's you in a year or two when you encounter a Supra while driving a Mustang.

Here's the difference most people don't even understand.


Subaru was not going to do a 86/BRZ whether with Toyota or not. The end result feels more Toyota than Subaru (quite obvious).


BMW was going to do a new Z4 whether with Toyota or not. The end result feels almost entirely BMW (very obvious).


The current era started with the LFA which Toyota did build it pretty much all by themselves.



/end thread

Yes...and you will have a "beautiful" Ford car quality, instead of a BMW/Toyota quality...Check JD Power, as a reference...


BMW are not the most reliable cars in the market neither, but last year they have improved and expecting working with Toyota, their quality level must increase. Likely to build the Supra, BMW has to follow the famous "TPS" (Toyota production System) from Toyota.

New? That ($45K) pricetag sent me to Ford’s site to check — 2019 GT350 starts at $60k, and that’s before any options and dealer markups.
Of course, not factoring in the cost of jail bail and driving tickets from enjoying that glorious flat-plane crank V8 and the sound it makes. (It is a fantastic sounding engine.)
Alas, I like that I can wind out my BRZ on public roads w/o killing myself, killing anyone else, destroying property, and/or going to jail. :lol:

Yeah 45k is a pipe dream for a GT350. Even used unless they've dropped.

I was very close to buying one a few times, but spent less and have a faster car instead. Mine doesn't rev to 8,250 though... The engine is also far less likely to fail. :shrug:

I'll tell you what. You go get a $45K brand new Shelby GT350 for $45,000 and I will buy it off you for $50,000. You can make and Easy $5,000 just for flipping it. In fact buy two and I will pay $50,000 for each.

The only thing that gives me hope is that some early drives resulted in comments that BMW had returned to form for the 'ultimate driving machine', BMW can build a fun car, hell Toyota managed to cough up the money for one so I have decent hopes.

Why is this thread in the Subaru section? The only parts this will share with a BRZ is interior switchgear.

Get ready for torx screws errywhere btw, wheel bolts, plastic oil filter housings, and lots of beautifully formed heat/nvh shielding. Does anyone know if Toyota convinced BMW to buck their trend and ditch Mac-Strut or are we stuck with another camber challenged pig?

Oh and 5x112 wheels
:lol:

:lol::lol:

It should put to rest a pile of misconceptions and myths.

Wow, a "BMW" that doesn't have 5x120??????


Conversely...


A larger Toyota that doesn't have 5x114.3????




DID HELL FREEZE OVER? :popcorn:

What no meme for this?
https://meme.xyz/uploads/posts/t/l-2...sappointed.jpg

We all love our BRZ's here....


But go drive a GT350. It's not your normal Mustang. Make sure to drive any other Mustang, such as a GT, after driving the GT350. And drive the GT350 like you stole it, once it warms up, of course.


I would, without question, take a GT350 over the new Supra, which I quite like aside from having no manual. And I'm not even really into Mustangs.

Here ya go!

https://i.imgflip.com/2re8vr.jpg

A new Mustang was parked next to me yesterday. That thing is just too F'n big. I've been at my private skid pad all day today and am having a blast in the 86. Little car is amazing in many ways. Interested in the Supra track reviews.

This guy had BRZ and now he has Shelby. I watched this video and I liked it, not that I am going to buy Mustang though. I really, really like my BRZ. [ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_HKs9Y1Ihuo[/ame]

Must be really annoying following this guy in traffic his foot is always on the brake pedal for no good reason like your typical automatic drivers. Does he not know how to heel and toe lmao!

What was this supposed to prove? Looks like a leisurely drive..... guy always had his foot on the brake pedal too, why?!?!

Get ready for it... at least there will be a plethora of >18" options to steal from M cars and Audi's.

https://g30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1321330

That's your opinion.

To me it sounds like mullet haircuts and six packs a day of Newport cigarettes. The sound itself is four hundred horrific, shrieking delinquent brats having simultaneous tantrums. And for some reason the Newport Mullets think that sound needs to be shared with everyone at the highest volume possible just before they spin off the road into a tree.

There's nothing special about Roush and Shelby Mustangs. Just higher priced trash for rednecks dodging their child support payments.

At the end of the day it's still a Mustang with the permanent stench of Newports.

Why are we talking about Mustang? Let's focus on Supra.

Lol tell us how you really feel about mustangs. They look great but did not want for several reasons.

I really wanted Toyota to make the 86 when it was first talked about.

I basically got the car I wanted except for the boxer engine, I really wanted it all Toyota with a high reving IL4, that didn't stop me from buying one.

I really wanted Toyota to make the Supra, they didn't BMW did, sadly, from prior experience with BMW, I will never own a Mk5 Supra.

I really hope if Nissan ever makes a S16 it is just Nissan.

It's like this:

I can't be racist.

I can't be sexist.

I can't be religiously intolerant.

But Mustangs... It's okay to hate Mustangs. I mean, why not hate Mustangs?

Well to be fair Toyota wanted a relatively low hood line so they went with the shitty boxer. I can respect that.

Not sure what Toyota was smoking but Tada claimed that it was BMW who approached them first at an auto show. Sounds fishy.

You might get lucky with Nissan now that they managed to get rid of the French dude.

These days if you want a proper Bimmer you buy a Hyundai / Kia not this Supra.

Somebody brought them into play.

Chances for an S15 don't look good, but I think MAAYBE we'll see an updated Z on a shared platform with the Mercedes SLC (previously SLK). Also Benz had a delicious new turbo straight six that would do nicely...

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.roa...nership-rumor/

Sadly, sports cars under $80k are just not popular enough anymore to fund development by one company. The only ones that sell enough to do so as the Mustang and Camaro, which aren't even sports cars really.

I don't think that's why they went with the boxer... For one thing, the FT86 hood is miles (well, inches anyway) higher than an S2000 hood which has an upright inline-4 under it.

Pedestrian impact standards may be partially to blame for what I think is a disappointingly *high* hoodline, but so is the strut front suspension, which is kinda forced by the flat engine configuration (limited room for structure for wishbone mounts and structure due to cylinder heads). Although struts probably would have been chosen anyway based on cost and Subaru heritage.

Ideal FR sports car engine that some manufacturer (Mazda?) should try: Low- and aft-mounted V4...

Two or three years ago I read a really good article about Mustangs, Camaros and Challengers in one of my trade magazines (yes actual paper). It broke down why they are so popular and made so much sense. The reasons that the American Pony cars continue to be inexpensive and flood the market are pretty obvious when viewed over the big picture.


The numbers are as close as my memory allows but should be at least reasonably accurate. All three makes were within such close margins that they can be lumped into one without skewing things to badly. Keep in mind the data would have been from 2014 0r 15 but it probably hasn't changed much since the same applies back to the late 60s..


Top trim performance models
Approx. 3% of production
Sold at a loss if not dealer marked up
Majority of buyers are 40 to 60 year old males in professional positions


Entry level performance models
Approx. 30% of production
Sold at a margin of 2 to 4% but frequently discounted for deals
Majority of buyers 20 to 30 year old males in entry level professional or technical positions


Base models (with some added packages)
Approx. 67% of production!!!!!
Sold at a margin of 5%+
Majority of buyers 20 to 50 year old females in all types of occupations


So, when people look at these cars, only see the top end performance versions and don't even notice all those base models running around they miss the point of what is actually keeping them on the market. If people stopped buying the base the whole lineup would be gone in a flash since there would no longer be the income to warrant building the performance ones.

The lack of sub $80K sports cars is a direct result of not having a dozen or so versions of the same car to reach across a broad enough range of demographics to bring the numbers up. In the past many sports versions of cars shared a platform with one or more appliance level models and this kept costs down but this has pretty much died out with dedicated platforms for sports and shared for everything else (yes there are exceptions). Al this leads to is that companies need to do joint ventures in order to keep costs reasonable. Even that isn't a new thing though.


The other thing is that even those listed "Pony" cars are all plummeting in sales numbers over the last two years. The general public is just losing interest in them and performance cars in general.

I would love to read this article, as it makes a lot of sense. In fact, it appears to be the same model used for the Corvette, which easily falls under the $80,000 threshold.

It also plays out in my house. When we bought MomHawk's Mustang she ended up with a V6 convertible because she valued having a convertible top over the extra power of the GT.

When I was shopping for a car in 2012 and bought the 86, everything I cross shopped ended up being twice as expensive as the 86 because of options available. I was perfectly happy with the 86 that was available, but any other car I looked at I always went directly to the top level trim and tried to work back to the minimum I "needed". Even if I work the other direction, I always end up in the high-mid to low-upper trim levels.

I just tried it on the Corvette configuration site. Even though I know if MomHawk showed up at work today and presented me with the lowest trim Corvette I'd be perfectly happy with it, I can't get off the first page of the configurator without switching from the $55K base model to the $71K Z51.

Well when I am done reading them I give them to engineering so it may still be in the stack of a hundred or so up in their washroom. Not sure I want to touch it though since engineers can be lonely guys and the trade magazines give them far too much pleasure.