Only BRZ owners know how to drive...
 

"Subaru of America, Inc. today announced the sale of its one-millionth vehicle equipped with award-winning EyeSight® Driver Assist Technology...
EyeSight is now available on all 2018 Subaru model lines except the BRZ sports car. The driver assist technology features Pre-Collision Braking and Throttle Management; Adaptive Cruise Control; Lane Departure and Sway Warning; and Lane Keep Assist..."


So I guess this means that the only group of Subaru owners that ALL know how to pay attention to traffic and road conditions are BRZ owners, eh?
Read the news release here:
http://media.subaru.com/newsrelease.do?id=1350&mid=1

Because cost is more important than safety to lots of manufacturers

Cost has nothing to do with it since it is a paid for option not a "free" addition to all models. They make money on the cars that have it not lose money
God I can already hear the screams of anguish and the requests for instruction on how to rip it out if it came standard on the BRZ.
The wife's Impreza has it and I like the cruise and blind spot monitoring but all in all I call it the drunk/distracted package.

I love the similar features on my toyota CHR....... You don't actually have to pay attention....:eyebulge:


Boring 3hour drive across the desert becomes so easy with these.... all i do is press a button & keep my hand on steering wheel most of the time.

so since the Zupra will be getting a whole host of safety gear as standard equip, does that mean toyota thinks 86 drivers are more responsible?




in all seriousness, adaptive cruise control & lane keeping are a joke on a "driver's car".. Emergency brake I can understand but most of the other shit is pointless, I barely use the old school cruise control on my twin..

i had a loner with it in pittsburgh, and the roads were so shit, it just kept beeping at me. not sure why anyone would want it.

Most Toyota's have had something similar as standard fro a few years now.

Back in the old school days , drivers needed to pay attention to road conditions (especially where brick walls are located).
Now drivers pay attention to mobile phones and satnav screens while expecting that electronic nanny systems will provide safety.
No wonder the road is more dangerous.
It should be compulsory for all drivers to do an advanced driving course!

I get that but it still doesn't mean Toyota needs to put it in everything they sell..the Zupra isn't even a Toyota so it is quite perplexing as to why they didn't go the same route as the twins and just forgo that useless crap on a "driver's car." Perhaps that shit would be easier to swallow if they decided to have a manual option specifically for the 6 cyl..

I won't disagree with you about advanced driving courses, but roads now are safer than they ever have been by any measure and continue to improve. According to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...tralia_by_year
, total fatalities, fatalities per 100,000 people, vehicles and km have been steadily declining since records began, and continue to do so. Do really you think these driver assist technologies are making the roads less safe, or are they part of the solution? If so, how?

We are not to far away from this stuff being mandatory in all cars. No matter how much we may not like it it does work. Make autox interesting when the car wants to slam on the brakes every time there is a cone in front of t.

personally I don't think it will ever become ubiquitous to the point where automakers can only release automobiles with automated capabilities...otherwise are things like motorcycles going to be banned completely or do you think bikers will be happy to jump on a new generation of automated electric bikes? :barf: come on, when were backup cameras supposed to become standard? They voted on that crap years ago and there's barely been actual progress with enforcing it this year! And even so my neighbor just got a brand new Impala and it didn't even have one...until horses and buggies are completely banned from using the roads then I take all the automated talk as just talk..

I would bet flying cars become way more common than fully automated vehicles in the future....will be interesting to see what flying car Toyota comes up with for the 2020 Olympics..

It is just my guestimate that if drivers learned how to drive and payed attention to where brick walls are located , then this would be much better than any electronic nanny systems.
Just coming from personal experience , with my own children and why cars were missing.

I didn't say a thing about fully automated I said all the assist crap. Each of your arguments are valid on a rational basis. Is your (or our) government well know for their rational decisions? I bet we see the stuff required in all cars within 10 years. As long as they maintain an off switch like they have now that won't interfere with anybody's driving pleasure.

Oh and if they ever do go fully automatic you may see more horse and buggies on the road since it will indeed be safer for them

Here in AU some models that have eyesite, lane departure and such standard in other countries don't have it here.

Most makes do have them as standard.

There was a bit of an uproar over this, Ford are still sending over Mustangs without the added safety features, they score 3 out of 5 for ANCAP = not safe in this day and age, Ford Mustangs crash really bad, side impact collisions are a killer, the reasoning, cost.

We pay upwards of 75k for a 5.0.

Though, the 86 does not have the lane departure and other features, but it scores a 5 out of 5 because it crashes better and there is less chance of injury or death, still, IMO it should have them as well to score full safety marks



I vote for additional safety features in street cars

If you don't want them, take them out

Me, I want my family in the safest car possible, there are way to many idiots on the road who think they are Fangio, safety should not be an add on feature.

I personally would be happy to forgo creature comforts like a stereo, shiny knobs and plush trim for additional safety features.

LOL, Is said "shiny knob"

It will never happen. The vast majority of people do not enjoy the act of driving and want distractions. It will not go away no matter how well trained they are.

We have the same mix here. It is totally up to the company if they make it standard. My wife could have bought the same trim level Impreza without it but she like all the bells and whistles. I do like some of the features but others are just a pain.

Didn't it cost something to the manufacturer to develop the said technology in the first place ( man power / hours, technology, planning, etc) ? Then that total cost is then divided among the units of cars that are sold with that technology ( to then recoup costs / initial and continual investment). Am I off base here, not thinking correctly?

As for the "drivers car", yes the 86 is marketed as a drivers car, people love that stuff, but not all owners are good drivers though.

Manufacturers MUST meet certain safety guidelines, as technology advances and changes, so do the guidelines, much like emissions requirements.

Cars are designed with the average joe in mind, not the enthusiast in mind, enthusiasts do driver training, track, khana and love to work out the hows and whys, the average joe doesn't.

I would rather the safety features to be mandatory, that way, when I'm having fun in the twisties with the nannies turned down or off, average joe in his 86 "drivers car" doesn't cross into my lane and kill me head on, or run up my rear because he is texting or playing with his stereo.

In the end you can turn the nannies down or off, just make sure when you do your ambition does not outweigh your abilities.

The ease that people get their licence is sad.

Here in AU you just drive the streets for 120 hours as a learner and you can get your licence, no defensive/advanced techniques are required, no emergecy stops are needed during testing, just sit in a car and drive.

I believe to get your car licence you should do alot more relevant driver training, emergency braking, skid pan, get them to lose control and show them what to do.

All of my kids do every driver training course they can, I get them on a wet and dry skid pan, how the hell does someone know what to do when they lose the rear end if they haven't practiced it.

How many people know how to use ABS properly when avoiding a kid running out on a road?

My kid does

But then my kid know how to service a car.

Basic mechanical principles should also be something that needs to be taught.

TL;DR: Stupid clouds

You nailed it. The implication that was made that I spoke to was that the manufacturers ignore safety because it cost them money. They don't. They just charge the customers for that safety.

I repeat.
Doesn't matter how much training you give them the vast majority of drivers on the road they will not apply it anyway. Mechanical principles, proper skid and braking and any other advanced skills mean nothing to them. They just want to point and go and the more the car does for them the better they like it.

Not completely off base but you've missed a big point. The cost of all this new nanny gadgetry is built into the price of ALL models produced by the manufacturer, not just the models that have it.
The twins price tags are not just due to their low volume but also because a percentage of it goes back to cover R&D used on other models.

Well phrased.
And... on the models that have it and they charge extra as an option they are actually making more money since the RD costs are spread across the whole line up.

The problem is the "average Joe" (and Jane) even with driver training, is a poorer operator than those from my kid's generation not to mention mine! Plus, as stated above, they have no interest in advancing their abilities further! Once they get it they move on to the next thing. There are too many things competing for young peoples attention today. The vast majority of kids today, even those from enthusiast households, are not willing to give up the other pursuits to put in the work to learn the skill of driving, let alone master it.
The dealership my wife works at is in need of three Class A mechanics. They can't get a decent apprentice. I think they have had four wash out due to poor attitude/abilities. Or, quit because it was too much like real work!

Oh so selling these cars is a Money thing? I thought the did it out of the love of cars!

An amazing number of people seem to think exactly that.

I really miss rvoll.

They should just be honest and all these fucking features, "Text Assist"

Gotcha, so there is the first year "out of pocket" expense by the manufacture, but by year 2 they have recouped that cost/ investment thru selling their car offerings. That makes sense. I'm not so sure BRZ's have gone up much in price the last 2 years in comparison to '16 model year (maybe) , but the 86 did increase in price by about $600.

Also, while we are still at it. The whole 5% of a manufactures car offerings are to be "electric" cars by is it 2019? Toyota has the Prius Prime. What does Subaru have?

Best safety feature? Mandated spike in the steering wheel for all vehicles.

Ahhhh somebody was paying attention!

Which is a shame because the only assists of that sort that I see any point in is the automatic braking one.


What I would be in favor of is a system that detects all sorts of stupid, inattentive driving exactly the same way but instead of correcting it and allowing the person to continue on in blissful ignorance, it instead pulls the car onto the shoulder and shuts it off.

Summary for those just tuning in: Men of varying ages yell at cloud.

And their car pulls over & stops

Would be interesting to see, if they did put this sort of crap into the BRZ, what percentage of owners would just rip it all out.

I use to just pull my ABS fuse, and traction control can be disabled, well, in some cars anyway.

Not sure that any of the other nannies would come into play to ruin your day.

In saying that I'm sure there may, or may not be other issues.

In the end there's usually clouds for me to vent my frustrations on

I wonder if insurance companies would disallow any claims you’d make if they could prove you did that.

I was at a big local Toyota dealer for maintenance service a few days ago. They must have like two dozen cars packed into the showroom floor. The one 86 is the only thing there without that triangle lane assist camera port in front of the center mirror. Anyway, I was invited to the Know Your Toyota night when I first got my car. A big portion of that talk was spent on lane assist features. From the questions being asked at the session, impression is everybody there but me have and care about such gadget. Such is life...

Going back to the original comment: I get the sarcasm. Ha ha, point well taken. Getting right to the point, I believe that there is a different level of driver engagement in the BRZ on the road and certainly on the track. The only feature that I can think of that might prove useful is adaptive cruise control on an automatic transmission equipped BRZ and then only those times I find myself on the Interstate.

My Subaru experience has been a 2014 Forester LTD since April 2013. Cross continent trips in the winter, renting and borrowing various other cars at times lead me to this conclusion: My next car would have to have more interior space and it had to be sporty like the cars I drove when I was younger (much younger). And, it had to be a Subaru. Problem solved, but it took two Subarus to do it. There is a 2019 Ascent Ltd and a 2017 BRZ Ltd in the garage. The Forester is staying in the family. (The best use car is the one you bought new). Believe me, driving the Ascent and the BRZ you know you are in a Subaru. From there the driving experience takes off it two different directions. I don’t have enough time and miles to come to an opinion on Eyesight yet. I do know that I would not have it in the BRZ and I would turn it off if it was. I was experimenting with the Eyesight system and it has some spooky tendencies. I was in the far right lane getting a feel for the car and the Toyota Prius ahead of me was doing it’s Prius thing that pisses everyone off: they drive two or three MPH below the posted limit and they do that in all lanes of traffic. You know what I am talking about. Eyesight engaged, I decide I had enough of the rolling roadblock. Light traffic, so I turn to the left without using the turn signal. Whoa cowboy, not so fast: Eyesight steers me back into my lane. Do I want Eyesight steering me out of the apex of a turn in my BRZ? You know the answer.

Fast forward to a year from now I would likely say that yes, Eyesight is an asset on the Subaru Ascent. In my opinion, the BRZ driver generally has a level of engagement in the driving experience that Eyesight would add nothing and in some cases hinder. If you find that Eyesight does give you that edge of security, then you are either sleep deprived or have a bad hangover. Call for a taxi.


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This. Enjoy your drives while you still can.