What's the cheapest car that's better than the twins?
 

Better in terms of your overall rating according to whatever criteria you'd use to evaluate a car like this, excluding cost. Well, at least initial cost, not sure if ownership costs should be considered.

I don't have an answer myself. Reliability was paramount, looks were important, and then I wanted as sporty as possible. No other car was even on my radar.

91 Miata. E36 BMW 325i. Miata gets better gas mileage and is lighter, costs less to maintain. BMW is faster, looks a smidge better, far cheaper to own.

But in neither will you find the values of both smooshed together so good yo. Go to NASIOC please, they're better with these questions, we're simpletons

That’s a pretty vague and subjective question. Are we including both used and new cars? If we are including used... the sky is the limit, you could buy a fairly low mileage Porsche Boxster or Cayman for the price of a new BRZ (just be prepared for higher repair and maintenance costs). If we are only talking about new cars and the criteria is lightweight, RWD and under $30k then the Miata is the only comparable choice. If we are talking about pure performance numbers, there are a number of cars in the price range of the twins that will beat it on paper.
A 91 Miata costs less to maintain and a BMW is far cheaper to own than a new twin?! Miatas are pretty reliable in general... but a nearly 30 year old Miata is not going to cost less to maintain than a brand new twin with a factory warranty. If you think a German sports car will be cheaper to own/maintain than a twin... keep dreaming.

I've owned several of both :) I agree, in warranty there's no way. I suppose to restructure what I meant, is in consumables and cost to purchase. You can run junk oil through both, you can run lower octane gas through both, and the cost to repair whatever goes wrong, dollar for dollar, will be far cheaper on the older cars. I auto crossed both of the mentioned cars for years. Only maintenance that went into both was fuel, oil, and tires. And maybe a couple window regulators for the e36 ;)

I don't buy into the brainwashing that newer cars are inherently more reliable. I'm so phobic of newer car problems after working in a garage, it's a miracle I considered the frs. So far, the frs has been good for 2 years (aside an exhaust leak, and serpentine belt) and I'm hopeful it'll keep on chugging. But I have a hard time believing it'll outlast my Miata with 194,000 miles on original engine, and the key with nearly 300,000 of thrashing. Only real problem I had with the BMW engine was a coil pack. The Miata engine didn't miss a beat.

I don't mean to say the BRZ/frs don't have a much better chance at staying reliable, but in regards to the OPs question, I believe if he wants to save money, he can best do so by not buying a brand new BRZ/frs.

I'm not against this platform, I am an owner and love my car :) but there are other vehicles in the world

EDIT:: I forgot, I replaced the driveshaft guibo on the e36 and the transmission rubber heatshield thing on the Miata. And I know he said excluding initial cost, but I had a rough day at work and need a reason to argue

IMO, an ap1 S2000 is the most "pure" car for the money.

Price, looks, performance, it is hard to beat.

Your Elise?

Best in terms of what? Some people have cars as fun vehicles to cruise around in, some of us are track day junkies, some of us are autox junkies, some of us build cars for the looks and car culture, some are HP queens. There are a thousand answers to this and none of them are really right or wrong.

I wouldn't be caught dead in an Elise.:lol:

My bad.

given the fact that there is no criteria set forth, you could pretty easily argue any car is better. when it comes to sport or fun per dollar it probably gives up a little to the miatas and if you look at utility there are a host of evos and wrx and focus etc that take the cake. i still havent found anything on par with a lotus for what most happens on public roads.

If not the twins, than it's definitely AE86. I drove it over 16 years ago and never looked back. Mind you i've driven other sports car of the day as well.

A Miata is as good.

I drove an NC Miata for 8 years and have driven my FR-S for 5 years.

If I couldn't have my FR-S, I would take my Miata back.

They are similar, but different - both are good cars.


humfrz

Like I said, whatever is best to you. If someone is an autox junkie, they can say that, and that's why they like the _____. It's a very subjective question and I don't expect objective answers.

For me, I was just looking for a daily driver. I didn't consider the Miata a contender because I think it looks bad with the top up, and it was recently slammed by Consumer Reports for poor reliability. But someone else could find it a great track car.

What's the cheapest car that's better than the twins?




https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/...jpg?1315930535

You know he meant Exige. We don't all have your garage memorized. I mean I do, but that's only because I want it.

If we are talking used cars....

C5Z. No contest.

It also depends on what you do with a car though!

Was one of those Lotus models that start with E.

I could have yanked his chain and called it an Elan. Esprit. Evora. Elsa...


Yes, thats it.... Eleanor!


J/K:bellyroll:

What's Your Favourite Lotus Model?
Please don't include any that start with an E.

I call her Cassandra Peterson, or....


https://i.imgflip.com/2j4zkv.jpg


Tired to not use an E, not sure its possible... :bonk: :bonk: :bonk:

So we are to name any car, for any cost, that is better than the twins in any category?

Damn...I dunno…

Better luxury > any luxury make
Better utility > any car that isn't a sports car
Better sports car > any car that is a sports car with equal or better fun factor
Better passenger carrying capability > any car that's bigger than the twins
Better power > anything that has more power
Better price > anything that's cheaper.

Well, the "humfrz reports" that my miata was very reliable. Not one problem in 88,000 miles. As far as ugly convertibles, no convertible looks better with the top up - however, some are less attractive. For example:


humfrz

I'll add this...
https://i.imgflip.com/2j51au.jpgvia Imgflip Meme Generator

What Is Your Favourite Convertible?
Excluding any with folding tops.

A Miata is an infinitely better convertible than the Twins. :iono:

The one that's paid off and surprisingly, still running.

A Miata with a removable hard top - :D


humfrz

Pretty much any "convertible" running in Production class that no longer has a windshield. :D

https://dk1xgl0d43mu1.cloudfront.net...jpg?1488678722

But really, the other "cheap" cars I'd consider in place of the FR-S are:

Any Miata (with a preference for an NB and a K-Swap)
2ZZ swapped MR2 Sypder
S2000
C5Z

I think the whole term "convertible" implies that the top can go up and down or on and off. That is just topless.


Not that there is anything wrong with that.


https://media.giphy.com/media/7iBWjvcMrHD2g/giphy.gif

Fine, Mr. Technicalcoat. There's always a loophole. :cool:

http://teinusa-blog.com/wp-content/u...02954980_n.jpg

That has a windshield.

Toyota did it better

https://sep.yimg.com/ca/I/coolfj40_2269_129099390

The protruding vein in her left breast ruined it for me - :(


humfrz

Better?

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/75/d0...1ea9184964.gif

That also has a windshield. It is just in a non-operational state.