Should I Trade In My Si?
 

Hi everyone,

I currently own a 2018 Civic Si and I have been thinking about potentially trading in my Si for a 2018 BRZ. As a daily driver, the Civic Si is a great car, but once you start to push it, it is not that rewarding. One of my main gripes with the vehicle is the god awful rev hang in the upper rev range. The clutch is light and easy to modulate in traffic, but feels too light when driving spiritedly. The car also just feels a bit soft and not that mechanical, if that makes any sense. Other than that, the car handles well, gets good gas mileage and I won't need to swap over to winter tires in a few months. It also has good mid-range torque due to the turbo :D

I previously owned a FRS when it first came out, but it was an automatic and my first rwd sports car at a young age, so I was not able to appreciate it as much as I think I would now. The main questions that I am looking to get some answers/opinions on are listed below. I know some of these questions may be subjective, but I want to get some opinions before I go and visit a dealership to test drive one. Thanks in advance.

1. Is the dip in torque still as bad as everyone says, despite having new gearing and a whole extra 5 HP and Torque?

2. How is the rev hang?

3. How does the clutch and shifter feel?

Honestly, nothing anyone tells you here is going to be as useful as if you were to just go test drive one yourself. All three of the items you asked are not "long-term" issues, or other items that require lengthy ownership of the vehicle to determine. You can answer these questions best yourself with a decent test drive!

Plus you previously owned one, so you've already got a good baseline idea of what they're like. While they have changed over the past few years, the changes are minor, comparatively speaking. So you can focus less on the "overall experience," and more on the specific points of concern you have.

Before taking a bath on trading in your Civic , try a tune to get rid of the Rev hang.

The twins also have a light clutch but no Rev hang.

Not a lot will have changed to your prior ownership experience.

The 2018's ride a bit better as they softened up the dampers a tad.
If you opt for a six speed manual, the gearing is even shorter than it was previously. A tight ratio six speed will definitely perk up the feel of the engine compared to the auto.

The dip is there there. It is something you can work around as long as you actually drive the car. I only find it to be a problem if you sit in the dip and try to accelerate.

I'd suggest a test drive to see how it stacks up. The civic will have it beat on usable power in the mid range without question. But if you like to corner and feel the chassis communicate It can be worth the trade off.

The shifter feels good, very direct feel. The clutch is light[too light for me]. I solved that with a softer spring to stiffen it up.

Buy it.

I had an Acura TSX (my 11th Honda). The rev hang was horrible. Hondata FlashPro helped somewhat, but it was still there. I strongly considered a 2018 Si before I purchased the FRS. The chassis dynamics of the 86/FRS/BRZ is far more rewarding and communicative than the Si. The clutch/shifter is more direct, crisp and enjoyable to use. For me, there's no question: The 86/FRS/BRZ is a better car, and more fun to drive. That being said, I bought a '08 Civic to drive while I'm getting a newer 86/FRS/BRZ.

Nope. Buy a different car.

If you have problems with rev hang and issues with "once you start to push it, it is not that rewarding [...]" then you're almost certain to have problems.

If you're even asking about the so-called torque dip, then you're going to be experiencing it all the time, so the car is never going to feel perky to you.

So this is the wrong car to buy unless you're going to put a bunch of money into headers, tune, FI, etc.

It's always good to make a list of the top ten things you want in a car ( mpg, safety, handling, versatility , low cost , etc) . Rank each one a 1-10 score ( so a truck would score a 10 for versatility , a certain SUV might score a 9) . After you've done that, it gives you a better idea, and you can then compare car to car which scores higher.

Also TEST DRIVE .... get out there and drive different cars. Taste the flavors.

My two cents: keep the Si.
You are not missing out on a '18 86. It's still the same car you had. Just has a new face. Unless you get the performance package, but even then it's just big break kit you can buy for the same price (somewhat the same)

The Si has more power, more room, more gadgets, and better comfort over all.

If you want the sport car experience, then get it. If all you want it for looks you can do better than a 86. Just my personal opinion.

https://www.kseriesparts.com/graphic...D-FLASHPRO.jpg


Buy this. It will get rid of your Rev Hang. Reassess and then see if you want to get rid of your Si. 2018 Si is a great inexpensive sporty reliable FWD car.

You're not making sense [emoji38]

lol.


RWD will always be better than FWD performance wise. But if he had to drive a FWD car, the Si is a great choice.


I had a 2008 Si before I got my 2018 BRZ. It's a fun vehicle.

Torque dip is only another moaning point equivalent to more powerrrr!
It's never bothered me.

Does the Honda still have the water pump driven off the timing belt?
A frozen pump is what blew up my '84 Civic S. After 11 years though.

Probably the most accurate post in regards to this question. I wouldn't conclude with 'keep the SI' though because that really depends on which direction you want to go.

I personally probably would switch but that would be because I WANT the sports car experience. An econobox or a hot hatch with a powerful engine and can handle is fun and all, but it might not 'feel' like the right combination for the driving experience.

It did in '03.


Those who care about having decent clutch feel/feedback need to do this. It's the only thing that addresses the root cause while retaining the stock clutch.

Assist spring removal doesn't do shit.

Definitely gonna disagree with you there. It noticeably improves clutch feel and makes the pedal stiffer. I'm not saying the cylinder swap doesn't also address the issue, but removing the assist spring most definitely does "do shit" lol.

tfw the 86 has more torque between 2k & 3.5k than the Si

Realtalk stop reading this go test drive and sleep on it. Either the test drive puts a smile on your face or quickly reminds you of how you felt on your first car. There are not significant changes since you last owned.

They're free and any sane dealership isn't treating these cars like royalty anymore.

A friend talked me into doing it. I was nice in my response but ultimately regretted removing it. Then my wife accidentally tossed out the parts. :/

It does nothing for the throw ratio, which is the root of the problem. Spring removal is a cosmetic change. It feels a little different but the idiotic long throw is still there.

Sorry to hear your wife threw out your parts, that does suck. As for the throw ratio, true enough. But removing the spring really helped me feel the engagement point better, which is really what was bothering me about the stock pedal in the first place. My shifts are a lot smoother than before, according to me and the 3 people who regularly ride shotgun in my car lol. Maybe one day I'll give your mod a try as well. Definitely a bit overkill for me currently though.

Many wives do that; in fact, my wife threw away brand new trimmer handle and bottom part and now I can't even use it.

I need to fess up. It was a team effort and I should take most of the blame. I wrapped the parts in a paper towel before placing them on the dining room table which is on the way to the kitchen sink. Then I got sidetracked and, well...

The next morning was trash day. :mad0260:

Thank you all for your responses. Like some of you stated, I am looking for a sports car 'feel'. Honestly, I don't really remember how the FRS felt when I had it and I did not know how to drive manual. The Si is a good choice for commuting, but when I am looking for a little fun on the weekends, I am left wanting more. Driving is one of my hobbies, which is why I care so much.

I will definitely test drive one in the future. It may have to be an 86 because the only BRZs around me are located in NJ. I figured I may get the best deal towards the end of the year, as some dealerships may be looking to get rid of any left over 2018s.

Try getting your Si tuned, Ktuner or Hondata. I heard VitViper is good too.

I have a friend has a 2018 Si or whichever year one has the 1.5 Turbo in it. He's got it tuned and loved it ever since. Says everything is a lot more responsive, I don't know about the rev hang it might be tune related (OEM) for emissions purposes and what not.

Tuning is an option, however, I do not want to worry about damaging anything and it not being covered under warranty when I am pushing the vehicle.

I think you'd be fine, you get a less aggressive tune. They can probably just tune for better responsiveness and tune out that rev hang for you. Unless you're gonna be adding more boost then yeah you're gonna have to worry a little more.

I think if you tune for what you want which is removing that rev hang and better responsiveness, it shouldn't do much.

Edit: Email Hondata or KTuner and see what they say.

A manual ‘18 86 will feel like a completely different beast than your automatic frs.

If you desire more of a rewarding driving experience, I don’t know why you’re not at the dealership right now making the swap.

The new Si has a gorgeous interior, but doesn’t have that great of handling compared to its fwd rivals like fiesta/focus st/gti.

I drove an 18 Civic Si.

On the test drive...car seemed way too big and wide inside it's cabin compared to the intimacy of the FRS cabin.

I tended to drive above the speed limit, additionally, over revved the engine due to the fact that the engine is too quiet compared to my FRS.



Rev hang ? Never notice it in my FRS, though it's probably there in a very slight fashion.

Torque dip: What they don't ever say; it's sometimes there sometimes not, so you can't count on what to expect in an emergency situation.

Clutch/shifter feel: Clutch just fine once you get used to the fact that engagement is at the top of the pedal. Shifter feel very good, yet not as good as a Tremec transmission.



You've tried both cars...is it time for a Miata Club Manual ? New engine for the 2019 model year. Something to think about.

BRZ Limited with Performance Package list $30,500. Miata Club list $30,050

Keep the SI a bit longer. You trade it in now, dealerships will bend you over. Get the flash for the SI. Wait a few years. Who knows the second gen FT86 could be close. But as everyone else said its the same car from 2013. The torque dip can be taken care of with a header and tune. Simple, and pretty cheap.

Well to be fair the Civic cabin hasn't had the really intimate feeling since the EF, and lost the low driving position after EG.

I would actually suggest like a few posts above to check out the new revised Miata first. If fit becomes an issue then take a look at the new 86/BRZ.

Me personally I wouldn't care about the money loss in the trade-in if finances allow since you won't feel so good everyday driving something you don't like anyway.

The new Civic's center console controls are terrible. But I give Honda credit for raising the floor pan to imitate the low seating feel, not sure why they can't lower the hoodline for visibility like the new Miata has done. The German understands if the front fenders are too short the car will look cheap.

hondata, coilovers and a good wheel and tire package and you will probably love your car. Taking that bath to buy another car you may not love is silly.

One is a FWD coupe and one is a RWD Sportscar.

Which one is better? FWD or RWD? I think FWD is good for snow.

You'll be fine with the right tires

With the proper tires they are both equal in the snow. The manufactures push how much better FWD was back when they were forcing the change from RWD but the reality is that any improvement is marginal at best. You may have a very slight advantage in deep snow but that is where it ends.

The difference being IF you spin the rears the car will rotate where on a FWD car if you spin it will just try to go straight. With TC on most modern cars you shouldn't have a problem with RWD, especially with the right tires.

My vote will always go to RWD though.

2018? You just bought it. It probably still reeks like plastic. The new BRZ is almost the exact same thing as your 2013 with some minor tweaks. I mean, obviously you can test drive it. But unless you need another car I wouldn't recommend it.

Does this thread make anyone feel really old or just me? He says he owned a 2013 Twin when he was young.... 2013 was a few weeks ago!!!

I am still trying to wrap my head around the comment made by a guy in one thread that his 99 Idon'tremeberwhat will be a classic soon.
Like Dude it was just 1999 a short time ago.

He's right though. 6 more years. That's like, next month.

I know, that is what I said! It damn near is and that is just not possible.