WINTER HELP - I'm new to winter driving
 

First off here is a tiny info of me..http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...0&postcount=50...

Just recently got stationed in OH which is a huge game changer for me since I've lived in places like Texas and at the beach of MS so never had to deal with cold weather or winter car prep but now that i'm here i'm stressing out about preparing my car. What I can address easily so far is to place weight on my trunk which i can do i'll use weight plates but don't know how much i should use. Main concern is the salt on the road, now should i go to Ziebart and get a rust protection service done? .... so damn lost here

things ive heard to do

-weight at rear
-rust protection
-winter tires
-anti freeze? <- da fuq is that fml im screwed
-warm up car b4 operating

When in doubt, throttle down.

Seriously.... you probably dont need the rear weight, but it isn't a bad idea to throw a bag of sand in the back anyways. If you get stuck it can help and you would have a little bit of extra weight over your drive tires. 40 lb. Bags are cheap at hardware stores.

Rust protection, probably not that big a deal, just try to wash with under spray as often as feasible. Salt sitting on the car is worse than most other issues associated with winter and rust.

Winter tires should be a necessity for you being inexperienced, it should really be a necessary thing for most people. Nokian hakapelita or blizzaks are about the stand out choice. Forester steelies are a cheap wheel option and then just swap back and forth.

Your car already has anti freeze in it, its coolant too. Seriously!?!?! :lol:

Yes warming up the car is a great thing to do. Run the defroster and warm up the inside at the same time. It's pretty self explanatory why you'd want a warm cabin.

letting your car idle for more than like a minute or 2 will not warm it up anymore. it just wastes gas. turning your car on, scraping your windows, and driving off is more than ample time. also i put a few 40lb bags of rock salt in my trunk and it really helped my wintercontactSIs grip.

I'm from Toledo, but have lived in Cincy for about 8 years. I'm pretty familiar with Ohio winters.

- Weight in the trunk isn't necessary, I've driven in 3 winters and didn't do this.
- I cannot recommend winter tires enough. This car is marvelous in the winter with a good set of winter rubber. This is the only thing I've done to drive in the winter. You can usually find a set on craigslist for pretty cheap too.
- Antifreeze is the same thing as coolant. As long as you don't have straight water in the cooling system, you're fine.
- This is a widely debated subject for most cars in most temperatures. I don't warm my car up, I just keep the load on the engine as low as I can until it's up to temp.
- Salt protection isn't necessarily needed, unless you REALLY want to. I just go through a touchless car wash that sprays the undercarriage every week or two.

If you're not already in it, there are Ohio86 and Cincinnati BRZ/FRS/86 (We include Dayton friends too lol) Facebook groups filled with people that can help give advice.

People will dispute this but I say do not put weight in the rear. It will improve traction yet but the trade off is that it changes the car's balance and if you start to slide will cause you grief.
Winter tires are a must have. Not all season or winter "performance" tire but SNOW tires. They are all you need but don't cheap out. I recommend getting some basic steel wheels and go for the utility look during the winter. Ya it won't be a pretty but you won't get slush freezing in your wheels and bouncing you around.
The coolent in the car is antifreeze. No changes needed.
No need for a long warm up. Just start the car and let it run until it drops out of high idle. When you start out just take it easy for a few minutes until it is up to temperature.
Rust protection is OK but not really needed on modern cars. After 4 years of winter driving mine is still fine. Rust protection just makes a mess and can even cause moisture to be held in place. Just make sure you wash it as often as possible and all is good.
Go buy yourself a good snow brush/scraper. Do not cheap out here. A good brush will extend, have soft bristles, insulated handles (you have no idea how important that can be) and a good solid scraper.
During the first snowfall find an open area and push the car around a bit. You will see what you can and can not do. Remember that now is only part of the issue in winter and just the cold changes how the car will react.
I drive a lowered FRS year round and have never had any problems.

Above all DO NOT listen to advice from the California crew. They think they know but...

Oh and you can check in here if you wish http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=76061

b.s. all you need is chains bro

good thing you got the subaru, awd yo

Idk about all that, my car warms up pretty quick, and it also let's the oil at least move around before taking off. I'm not saying run it all day, but sure let it idle for a bit and start getting up in temp isn't a bad idea.

2nd what everyone else has already suggested. If it's that intimidating find a friend that will drive you to an empty lot to learn in (scout it before snow for pot holes, parking berms etc... don't want to find those the hard way ;)) Have done this a few times for new drivers or friends that moved from warmer climates. Lets you get a feel for how the car is going to react, and what not to do. Then after the lesson toss on some eurobeat and have some real fun!

Canadians live in winter, its why they know all about winter driving :)
That and I think Finland, since that's where some of the best winter tires are born (The Nokian hakkapelita)

Except where I live...Calgary drivers are some of the most moronic....I've lived here forever and every year I find that Calgarians still have no idea how to drive in Calgary....

I work here at WPAFB as well (over by the BK). So lets stop some "snow" myths now for this area.


1. This part of Ohio does not get massive snow that sticks around. There are short periods where we will get bad snow, but typically gone in less than a week and everything closes anyways if there is just a dusting of snow.


2. They salt the crap outta the highways. They use Brine and Salt. So I don't think any Zeibart rust protection is going to help much. Take your car to the carwash often. Its cheaper. Be sure to wipe inside edge of the door frame and bottom edge of the doors. Car washes don't help much there.

3. You can get snow tires, but honestly I would not if you have the stock tires and they have plenty of tread. In my case I have aftermarket tires that are horrible on wet roads, let alone snow or ice. So it was needed. If your tires are all yr round tires you don't need them here in this part of Ohio (except maybe a day here or there and they won't do you much good in that case anyway, if its that bad....other drivers are your concern and how low the car sits!)


4. My car is garage kept, but when it wasn't.....I let it warm up, not for the engine, but for my own comfort i.e. the heater. Invest in a decent brush/scraper combo. My 2014 doesn't have heated steering wheel (only heated seats) so I wear gloves in the winter. So I didn't get the one with the glove built in, extra cost I didn't need.


5. Weight in the trunk does help and can throw the balance off, but you can just put a bag on each side to fix that....but don't use sand. Use kitty litter. It has so many more uses (weight, gives better traction on ice if you do get stuck, mops up oil spills, lets animals go the bathroom on it etc).


6. what you will see is the transmission (if stick) being more clunky in the 1/2 gear until the car warms up. Many folks recommend changing the tranny oil out to Mobil 3k to help with it. You can put Heet in your gas to evaporate water....but really our winters are normally right around 30degrees. A few times it will dip. I didn't do anything special to my car and its fine. If I don't drive it for a few days I do put a trickle charger on the battery though.


7. Just slow down in the winter, don't take the turns all tight and fast. And then go to empty parking lots at the first layer of snow and do donuts and spins.....you know to get used to drifting in the snow and knowing what to do.

Most Ontarions don't either. At least for the first few snowfalls. Even many that do know how still think that all season tires mean all seasons. The number of times I have had to stop my lowered, RWD, lightweight car on a snow covered street just to push an AWD SUV or even a bloody Jeep out of the way so I could carry on is astonishing.

The car itself doesn't really need all that long to warm up (I usually wait until the idle drops, and I think that's really all it needs)

but it takes much longer for the heater to get to an adequate temp in winter, which is probably why everyone suggests idling the car for a minute or two to warm up the cabin. Its not necessary but the car is going to feel like a fridge on the inside for a little bit until the engine gets warmed up.

Oh and don't worry about your manual transmission (if you are so equipped) feeling like its shifting in molasses, it'll warm up and get better but that's what happens in the cold lol.

FYI, Nokian tires are from Finland. (Nokia is also a Finnish company)


I've been to Rovaniemi Finland; Porsche has their winter test track their.


https://www.porsche.com/silverstone/...y/wintercamps/


https://www.nokiantyres.com/company/about-us/history/

thanks for the correction :)

The stock tires are summer tires. It'll be like trying to drive on hockey pucks. If you don't have an all-season tire at minimum I wouldn't even try to drive the car in any type of winter weather, or extreme cold temps.

My Continental DWS06's got me through winter last year after my winter beater died unexpectedly. They were still somewhat sketchy and did struggle just a bit in deeper snow (4" was the most we got), but never got stuck. A true winter tire would be ideal.

Scrape ALL of your windows, not just the bit in front of the steering wheel.

You need to be able to see what is going on around you.

Buy a decent one. Don't use a CD cover

If you are driving a 2018 BRZ tS, don't even think about driving it in the winter, salted streets.


Buy another car, a beater/junker/salt car. Buy that second car from a place where it's never seen salt. Put 4 snow tires on that car. Park your nice car indoors till spring.


Salt does irreparable damage to the undercarriage of cars, even newer model cars. It's not the body of the car, but all the parts underneath the car which get ruined prior to the body.


Guess why I no longer live in the North East in winter....Been there, done that, totally depressing for a car nut it was.

Bet. I'll drive my tS in whatever weather I choose.

Just because some Jabroni on the internet said not to...doesn't mean I won't.

I absolutely love the nokian haakepelittas, I have a friend with a WRX and its night a day difference with blizzaks vs the hkps. They really know there stuff, they also used to have a tire that would get incredibly sticky/grippy in the cold as well in the 90s that they stopped making because of compounds changes.



I HIGHLY recommend you avoid driving on the stock primacys in any weather below 45 degrees. It's horrible, the tread has nothing to do with there grip level. The compound goes to shit at anything below that temperature level.

Buy some cheap rims and put some cheap all seasons or winter tires and you'll never drive on the stock stuff in the cold again....

:lol: He was just looking out for the value of your car man

Damn didn't expect more than 2 replies lol.

But thank you for all this info you all just saved me 500$ in the rust protection....money is TIGHT like extra tight after moving.

To address the whole anti freeze lmao my bad i stayed away from driving and cars for as long as possible ~16' and just jogged or rode a bike everywhere to stay in shape. (now that i have a car im glad i did that... shit is expensive!!!)

Can't afford another car im sitting comfortably right now and rather not sit at the edge of finances.

Winter tires might take a while because money. I have the stock tS Pilot tires that's gn have to do.

Warming up the car I've always done since I take a sec to choose music

Heard from one person before about washing the bottom of the car being fine as long as it was done once a week so i guess it should be fine

The extra weight on the back of the car definitely changes the characteristics, had about 100lbs in there for a month and once i cleared everything out of the car it felt so light and different (FUN)
@Everyone Thank you for all the general information it's cleared up a lot of my questions/concerns @sweetpea Thank you for the weather clarification on the WPAFB area

Definitely gonna have a bad time on the stock TS tires in the cold my man.

Disregard the tire comments sweetpea made, some of his other statements were off as well. Look at the comments the forum vets put on here for you, buy some cheap rims and maybe even partially used snow tires while you can and slap em on, you're definitely going to have difficulty driving if the roads start to moderately ice up or get precipitation on em

Yep. Down to about 49 degrees they will be ok. Between 40 and freezing they will be tricky. Below freezing they are stupid hazardous.

Do not mess around with tires no matter what some guys may say. It isn’t the amount of snow but the cold that causes the issues. Summer performance tires are made of a firm compound so that they have the right amount of flex when hit. That firmness turns them into slippery hockey pucks even in bare dry pavement when cold.

Bryan
Even the cheapest winter tires out there are far better than the best summer ones. Check different places or even on here for somebody selling some used ones for cheap. Take my word for it that this is the only concern you need to have about winter driving. Get proper tires.

+1


lol wut


He's talking about front-rear balance. Driving dynamics. VW beetles had an undeserved reputation for being good in the snow. Was true only if you knew how to handle them. Snap oversteer for days.

Speaking from experience driving in the snow on stock summer tires (twice). Don't do it. You can get away with a dry winter on them if you drive like your grandma is with you, but the minute you get snow, or even melted snow, shit gets dangerous.

First time I tried it, made it 50 feet, turned around and went home. Last time (surprise snow storm), I abandoned the car in a parking lot and walked the last mile or so until the roads were clear. Im originally from upstate NY and very capable of driving in the snow if that means anything with my story.

Get a set of winter tires, or at least all-seasons that are well reviewed in the snow (The older Conti DWS were great, idk about the new version).

Stick some velcro strips or something on a couple of bags of snow melt or kitty litter before you put them in the back to keep them from sliding around. No strong opinion on whether it's best to have them or not.

Wash often. Warm up or not, doesn't really matter. Just keep the revs low until oil temp is good. Warms up faster if you drive it.

Get practice in an empty lot. Scope the lot out before snow to make sure there's no potholes or obstacles. I usually test out how slippery the snow is in a safe place before heading out. On an empty straight, gradually increase braking pressure till the ABS engages then let go. You now know the maximum deceleration the snow can handle. Assume you only get half of that under braking or turning and you'll be fine. You'll know when you try to accelerate too quickly lol.


Edit:TLDR: Get tires capable of winter driving.

DO NOT drive with the stock tires on snow, even cold pavement is questionable. Money might be tight but it will be worse when the car is wrecked or you have to leave it in the driveway because you can't go anywhere. Dig up $200-250 and find a set of used winter wheels with tires. Weight in the back seat not the trunk, trust me on this. You don't want the weight out behind the wheels you want it over the axle or just slightly ahead of it.

I've driven a couple of hundred thousand miles in hardcore winter conditions all over this country in all sorts of vehicles, this car when set up right is very competent and will take care of you well but you do need to realize that the other people that haven't set their vehicles up properly can't see you because they didn't clear their windows and they will probably slide into you because their tires are garbage. You need good tires to be able to get out of their way or stop before the problem arises.

Has anybody mentioned getting snow tires is a must yet?

Hey man,

I've been living in Montréal and Québec City for the past 33 years, I know what winter looks like.

I owned a 2013 BRZ, 2015 STI and now a brand new 2018 BRZ RS since yesterday

The BRZ is a very capable car during winter BECAUSE it is extremely well balanced, do not mess around with that by putting weight in the trunk, it might help with traction at low speed but will fuck you up if you start going sideways at high speed.

The other thing is that the car is very low, be careful not to hit blocks of ice, etc..

Driving in winter with your stock tS tires is (excuse the language) fucking retarded. Buy a proper set of winter tires (all-seasons are garbage no matter what people say). Get a used set if you have to.

Why winter tires? BRAKING and STEERING, they will brake A LOT better and enable you to avoid collisions if necessary.

Finally, drive slower, much slower. Can't even count the number of moronic kids going 150km/h on the highway in snow I've seen crash and die in the ditch.

Get WINTER TIRES.

GET THEM.

:)

No, it is NOT going to have to do, and it won't do. I am a serious penny pincher, and hate to spend money, but this is one instance where you simply must find a way to buy a set of snow tires, especially if you have have no experience driving in snow.. I'll get to some tips there in a bit. Most of the good advice here has been in prepping the car, but not much has been said yet about prepping the driver...
Sell something if you have to, trade, barter, whatever.. but get snow tires. That's not up for debate. Yes, they cost money, but they are a LOT cheaper than hospitals.


Leave the music off while you're driving in snow, at least until you've driven on bad roads for a while. You'll hear the engine rev when you lose traction almost faster than you'll feel it, and it might give you a little extra time to correct. NO music... concentration on driving.


Absolutely. I'm in the "no extra weight in the back" camp, too. Yes, you get a little more traction at first.. but when you break traction and the back end slides, the back end has more momentum 'cause of the extra weight and takes more effort to correct.


OK.. winter driving tips..


1. Don't do ANYTHING fast or suddenly... slow, very gradual acceleration, gentle steering inputs (unless correcting a skid, depending upon severity.. more on that in a bit).


2. If automatic transmission, do not use "Sport Mode" or whatever it's called on these cars. The goal is to stay in upper gears longer that have less torque. In a manual transmission, upshift a bit sooner than you would normally. If you're having trouble getting rolling, try starting out in 2nd gear. Rev match precisely and carefully when down shifting, and only down shift when necessary to prevent lugging.



3. Braking.. virtually all cars these days have antilock brakes, and the advice there is usually just, in an emergency, smash'em down and let the car deal with it. I grew up w/out antilock brakes, and just can't bring myself to do that. Even with antilocks, I brake very lightly, stay FAR away from other drivers so that when I do need to brake I have plenty of time to do it. Stay far away from other drivers... do NOT tailgate. Usually the advice is stay 2 seconds behind even on good roads. Double that to at least four seconds on bad roads, more if you can. Brake lightly.. feather. The minute you lose traction, GET OFF THE BRAKE. That's the hardest thing for folks to get used to.. do NOT brake if you're sliding. Pump, pump, pump, pump... fast. That's what antilock brakes do for you, so you can still steer a bit. I do that manually (ok... "footily" .. but you get the idea)... old habit, and it still works.


4. OK... sliding/skidding. When the car starts to skid, you'll feel/hear the engine rev for no apparent reason and the back end will start sliding to one side or the other. If the back end slides to the right (it'll look like you're turning left through the windshield), ease off the gas and TURN TO THE RIGHT too... steer into the skid. The amount you have to steer corresponds to the suddenness/severity of the skid. Steer just enough to get the back end under control and restore traction; if you over-correct, you'll initiate a skid in the opposite direction and thinks can get worse fast. GO TO AN ABANDONED SNOWY PARKING LOT AND PRACTICE THIS!!! It's fun, and you'll get the hang of it in no time.


TLDR; Clear/scrape all windows, start car, no music, do everything slowly, steer into skids, foot off the gas and don't brake in skids, and if at all possible practice a bunch before joining other drivers on the road.


AND... assume everyone else on the roads drives worse than you do.. stay away from them.

And clean off the roof too. Leaving snow on your car will blind the driver behind you at speed. It will also slide down onto the windshield when you stop.

Yep... good catch.. sorry I forgot that. We call folks who are too lazy to clear off their roofs in this area "rolling blizzards;" you can't see a thing when you're behind them.

Everyone saying not to put weight in the rear.... 40 lbs seriously does not make THAT much of a difference and the tube of sand can help immensely if you get stuck. These aren't trucks, you dont need to drop 100+ lbs in the bed.

As far as tires.... yeah. Buy them. Stock non ts wheels are basically given away on this forum or find some forester steelies. You can buy some older winter tires on Ebay or find someone dropping a winter setup on here.... anything but the stockers in your situation and with the ts.

Keep us apprised of your situation and part out threads. At least this winter doesn't seem like it will be too bad for the midwest, right?

It's Great-n-Dayton. I've spent the past 5 winters in Pittsburgh and Cleveland, driving my '13 BRZ on all seasons. Pilot Sports AS3's. Biggest worry is getting caught out during a snow storm before the streets are plowed/salted. On ice last winter along i-80 in PA, the car was stable while many others were in the ditch. Only place I've ever been stuck is in my driveway. Real snow tires will reduce the white-knuckling, but the car has a good stability control system and so far, so good. In Dayton, all seasons will be fine. Hope this helps.

Winter tires it is.

Any suggestions?

Certainly,



If you can find them and afford them. Nokian Hakkapeliita R2 or R3. Considered the best, but very pricey. I haven't seen a test where these weren't considered 1st choice.



If not, Bridgestone Blizzaks and Michelin X-ice tires are also top tier and less difficult to find. However both are also pricey.



Best value would be the ones I'm using Gislaved NordFrost tires. Can stay toe-to-toe with the best tires for a reasonable price. Its a Swedish tire owned by Continental, most people remember them for being the Volvo choice of tire. Pricing is upper mid which is good when its near top.



Best of the cheap tires is almost certainly the General Altimax Arctic, its essentially an older Gislaved tire. No longer top tier but still above average and considering its low price probably the best bargain.

First response in the thread....:iono:

Recently stationed in Minot.. I'm from Cali I know what you're going thru~ but seriously get dedicated winter tires. We had some days -40F let your engine/trans warm up. (Wouldn't go into 2nd for a 1/2 mile or so) only major issue i ran into was i needed a battery with higher than normal cold cranking amps. A memeber mentioned car wash with under body spray, I did that, helps immensely. Always a blast if u have the right tires for the specific task =)

Also.. when the freezing temps hit i put fresh Eng/trans/diff fluids & changed again when ND came out of freezing temps. Maybe its just my OCD but i believe this would help improve the longevity of those components~

Edit: I ran continental wintercontact si 205/50/17 on OE rims

Yeah. I guess that's true. There are bigger issues at play if that bag of kitty litter is the deal breaker.

For straight winter/snow tires, Blizzaks and/or X-Ices are the go-tos for most people IMO.

General Altimax Arctic are great in snow and slush. They are wiggly in dry conditions and while I would not run them in a car I didn't need to drive regardless of the weather (I’d use performance winter tires for that), they are a great choice if you have to get through the snow and slop no matter what.