What are the Pros and Cons of switching to a bigger set of Brakes?
 

Hey guys,

So I've been wondering are there any cons or disadvantages relating to performance after installing a bigger and more powerful brake system?

I think having a nice big red Brembo brake caliper would look awesome, but of course the biggest con would be the price.

As much as I want the cosmetics improvement, is hard to justify the cost solely base on that. I understand there are many pros to getting a bigger set of brakes and roter, but is there any cons other than price that would offset the pros?

Thanks for any tips and advises! :thumbup:

Bigger brakes = more unsprung weight and more rotating mass. To offset that, you'll need need lighter aluminum calipers and carbon ceramic rotors. It actually looks silly to have big brake kit on such a light weight low power car, its much better to go with lighter wheels and tires.

the main reason race cars have big brakes is for heat dissipation

unless you're racing or building a show car to look good, you should be fine with pads and line upgrades if you just drive on the street and do occasional high performance driving

It sounds like he wants them mainly for the look, which I can't argue since big brake kits do look awesome!

In addition to what's already mentioned, bigger brakes may also mean bigger wheels and tires. Bigger wheels and tires generally mean more unsprung weight, as well as increased cost (and even more so if you go with lighter weight wheels at the increased size).

I think it really comes down to this: unless you have a need for greatly improved stopping power, how much are the aesthetics really worth to you?

^this

I would hold off brakes upgrade until you start modding the engine or you found brake fade on the track.

Unless it is just for looks.

fixed

Yeah, you should get them. Then you can have the fastest car in the pub.

Also, you can get better stopping power by just changing the brake pads and upgrading the brake fluid and lines. You would not really gain much in performance by going to a big brake kit unless you put on some serious track rubber and really hit it hard continuously for many laps on a track.

I agree that big brake kits can look really cool however.

Another option is to go for a "big brake kit" that has a rotor that is only slightly larger than stock with an aluminum hat and a good lightweight aluminum caliper. That way you would not be increasing the unsprung weight or rotating mass significantly (the weight may even be lower), and you would get the benefits of greater heat capacity and a better caliper.

Form follows function. If you want a car to look fast, build it with parts that you prove to make you faster. Then the car can't help but look good to some extent.

Thanks so much guys for the feed backs. Many of you made great point with the unsprung weight. It wasn't the first thing that came to mind, but it makes a validate argument. I think I'll probably take the suggestion of holding out on the brake upgrade until I see the need.

I think daily driving and the occasional annual auto cross is the most I'll throw the car into, doesn't make any sense in terms of doing the brake upgrade for performance reason.

Does anyone have suggestion of a nice, cheap aesthetics upgrade for brakes? Or would it be wiser to stick with the stock look for the meantime?

Also, I plan on bumping the wheels size to 18 or 19, so I was afraid the stock brakes might look a little too small in reference. But personally I agree with most of you that the stock look is already pretty awesome.

I would suggest tht you start by painting the caliper with briht color; maybe red or yellow. Tht might satisfy yr asthetic needs and it is cheap without any weight penalty. I would think in not so distance future most owners will upgrade the engine to higher hp, and then maybe it justifies to get bigger brakes n rotor to match the increase hp.

4-wheel lockup is still 4-wheel lockup, doesn't matter how big your brakes are.

Get 06-07 wrx brakes... look em up, I think its what you will want.

a friend of mine just got these for his 2006 impreza. They look great and its one of the options ive been thinking about since the calipers and rotors only cost him around $700 shipped. Hoping to see someone else do this first and give off some impressions.

I would stick with stock until next spring/summer. Many of the manufacturers either don't have a kit yet, are still in the prototype stage, or have only just come out with a "me too" package that will be supplemented by more offerings in the future. By next spring/summer things should be somewhat sorted out. In the meantime, you could do the caliper paint thing as another member suggested.

Think about brakes in these terms:

-Brakes don't stop the car, tires stop the car.
-Brakes convert kinetic energy into heat.

Upgrade brakes if your needs to convert kinetic energy into heat are greater than your braking system's ability to absorb and dissipate heat. If you are at this point, you a) racing or b) pretty hardcore and c) should also consider brake ducting.

Hope this helps!

To everybody being smart about weight: you get what you pay for. For instance, forged (and even cast) aftermarket wheels can be in the neighborhood of 5lbs lighter per corner than stock wheels despite being wider and sometimes larger in diameter. And on that note comes good competition brake systems like whatever AP Racing based kits Essex Parts will come out with, saving ~3lbs per corner.

So you can have your cake and eat it too, it just depends on how deep your wallet is. I love brakes that fill up the wheel, but as a cosmetic upgrade it's last on my list. I'll be doing pads/lines/fluid first.

How many times do I have to say that's not an upgrade. Same rotor sizes, only increase in bling bling factor and perhaps pedal feel, that's all. Actually, probably an increase in weight because they're cast-iron just like the stockers.

Paint your calipers red.

On the serious side, do pads first (you will be surprised.) Go a step up from the friction rating of the factory pads. Say you got FF pads, get something with FG or GG friction rating.

Then do lines, but it's mostly for feel.

Don't touch the fluid, unless you flush it. Use whatever Subaru/Toyota recommends, and flush often (I recommend quick bleeder valves.)

In my 2009 Camry, I thought I will be smart, so I flushed the system with ATE DOT4 blue stuff (made in Germany.) The pedal was fine for the first 3 days, but by the end of the second week the pedal went to the floor - no, I did not get air in the system. I had to flush the system with the Toyota stuff to restore brake function. Lesson: DOT4 doesn't mean better than DOT3 (in fact, some DOT3 fluids can be better than some DOT4 fluids), AND just because the Toyota fluid meets DOT3 specs, it does not mean it just regular-o DOT3 fluid. The Toyota fluid is made specifically to behave and play nice with the seals in the Toyota brake systems.

In this case, it's a Subaru system (whoever makes it for them), so just follow the recommendations for their fluid and flush it often.

Sorry mate, but I can absolutely guarantee that was a user problem, not the fluid.

What do you suppose hapenned?

Sorry man, search these up on nasioc; you are wrong. These are an upgrade in weight, feel, consistancy, force, and fade.Im not making this up. Though a more worthwhile big brake upgrade would call for larger rotors that provide better heat distribution.

Bro. The WRX wears 294mm front vented discs, just like this car. The standard WRX wears solid rears in the same diameter as ours, but the 2006-2007 cars with the FHI 4 pots have the same vented disc as ours. YOU go look up the diameters and widths, they are the same. No increase in heat capacity, which is really what you're after in a brake upgrade. Cool, spend $700 on FHI calipers...for no heat capacity? That's just bling and for a more money you get a better package with any big brake kit.

I like you, don't make me argue with you all day.

Its cool man:happy0180: hear me out

I know they have the same size rotor hence the "though", but the OP doesnt need the extra heat capacity or more importantly extra rotational/unsprung mass of larger rotors and calipers.

The 4pots wear better, have more force, better bias, all while being lighter and better looking, just what the OP wants. Throw on better pads and lines and hell certainly love it. Plus old JDM STi models had them; these can be picked up cheap, custom powder coated, and then rebuilt for much less than $700

To the OP, please check out this brake upgrade overview I put together a while back. It talks about brake needs/requirements vs. wants, and also touches on aftermarket calipers, discs, and complete big brake kits.

Weight (barely) and feel yes. Force no. The 4-pots have smaller pistons which means less force on the pad for the same line pressure. No change in fade resistance because the rotors are the same size.

4pots>2pots for force, much more even distribution too + less squishy pedal feel. Better fade due to the better bias it has over the wrx/brz setup.

^ More pistons doesn't mean clamping force, but more total piston area per side does (for a given rotor diameter).

The standard BRZ/FRS bias isn't bad.

- Andrew

A 2-piston sliding caliper generates the same brake torque as a 4-piston opposed caliper given the same bore sizes and effective rotor diameter. The 4-pot has smaller pistons than the 2-pot which less force. Not coincidentally, the 4-pot generates the exact same brake torque as the 276mm 2-pots found on the 2.5RS and older WRXes. It's about 8% less than the stock 294mm 2-pots.

Plus if there was more brake force wouldn't that make the bias worse?

Why are you trying to increase the stopping power of a Camry...

A few 100mph --> 70mph decelerations on the freeway got the rotors cooked and create shimmy in the steering wheel when braking. No shimmy otherwise.

First thing i tried were the Porterfield D4-S pads rated GG. They work great after a few stops, but more often than not i would catch them cold. The shimmy was still there cause i kept the stock rotors. I then replaced the rotors with Brembo plus Akebono pads. While the oem pads are Akebono too, the oem friction rating is EE while the replacement is FF. This plus flushing with Toyota brake fluid reached the desired result.

As a side note, poor mans bbk for the Camry is the current gen highlander calipers and rotors as a straight bolt on for the front. The highlander caliper is dual piston with 40% more piston area and a slightly larger rotor. I wouldnt touch the rears. I an nit sure they would clear the SE 17" wheels, but it looked promising.

Cheap and big brakes don't really go hand in hand very well. ;)

Stoptech has a big brake kit out, but it's really not cheap. For the time being the best bet is to roll with an upgrade in pads, lines, and fluid.

You could always paint the calipers but that's along cheesy lines anymore.

Its called warping your rotors. I'm almost scared people want a BBK kit for a Camry.or know the oem pad material. Its a camry....

I've got a good idea: don't repeatedly go 100 on the freeway and slam on the brakes.

And it's not warping the rotors, it's cooking the pads so they leave uneven deposits.

This is not warped rotors. I am linking an article to this.

http://www.stoptech.com/technical-su...nd-other-myths

Anywho, why are you dissing the Camry? Both gen6 and gen7 with the V6 and SE trim will smoke the FT86 for lunch, breakfast, and dinner in most daily driving situations. 0-60 times in the Camry on 91 octane and good set of tires ranges between 5.8 - 6.2 seconds. The sequential 6 speed is not that bad either, and once the Camry is in 4th gear (1:1), game over dude.

The SE has various chassis reinforcements such as an underfloor brace, V brace behind rear seatback (no rear folding seats), and thicker side brackets. In the suspension department, it has 15% higher spring rates, 50% higher damping rates, stiffer anti roll bars, strut brace, stiffer bushings, lower assist PS pump and lower ratio rack. It also sits 0.5" lower. The 17" alloys are issued with 220 tread wear compound. What all this means is that the SE is much more composed then other Camrys.

Weaknesses: FWD (obviously), weight and brakes. Still, in daily driving situations, don't challenge a Camry SE V6 unless you want your ass handed to you.

Look at all these fucks I give about your Camry.








All of these fucks

I don't know why anyone would bother to buy a brz/frs when they could just have a camry.

Trolling a lot?

Or maybe the reality distortion field is strong with you?

I will take you more seriously when you post pics of your turbo or S/C under your hood. Until then, you are easy pickings. If you feel an unsatiable urge to defend your purchase decision in the face of a Camry, then maybe you should condider that the FT86 is not the right car for your driving style.

From what I've seen from most BBK vs OEM comparisons, the aftermarket BBK is usually lighter. If you are able to get a BBK that fits underneath stock wheels, like for like, most aftermarket BBks using a 2 piece rotor will save some unsprung weight even if they are larger. Even larger 4 or 6 piston aluminum calipers tend to be lighter than the OEM sliding caliper.

So there are some unsprung weight gains to be made just through the BBK. I'm paying close attention to Essex's AP Racing kit.

Unless you are tracking it (heavily modded, boosted, etc.) or doing for car shows, it's really not needed.