2013s less responsive than 2017s?
 

My buddy test drove my '13 BRZ and said his new '17 86 was more responsive in every way.

Is this normal or is it an issue that early year models have? I just got the used BRZ and I've never driven the newer ones.

The new ones have 5 more horsepower and come with a Gallo 24 instead of the older models that have the Gallo 12.

you can get the 5hp back but the gearing is main difference in response

2017 MTs got a revised final drive ratio so all the gears are/feel shorter. Combined with the 5HP/TQ bump and some revised suspension bits here and there it probably does make the car feel "more responsive" or at least different to drive.

People generally are trying to convince themselves as much as they are everyone else that their setup, car, or whatever is the ONE. Yes this is normal.


A newer one will likely have a few upgrades. Which are nice. But, worth worrying about. IMO, NO. If they were, you would have purchased a new car.


My suggestion is to: perform regular maintenance, add the mods you want, have fun driving, and not worry about how your "buddy's" car may have slight improvements from the factory.

Your buddy is justifying his purchase, making him feel 1000% better.
With the money you saved buying used vs a 2017, slap some decent coil overs on your car, decent tires with a good alignment, header and a tune and then tell him your car is more responsive in every way.

There were a bunch of small changes made to the car in 2017 that does make the newer ones more responsive. In fact, my 2018 has more quiet and ride comfort as well. I've driven the 2018 and a 2016, and these changes are real. However, they are not huge. From my perspective, if you want a more comfortable and quiet car, then it is worth going for a 2017+. The 2018 adds Android Auto/CarPlay as well. However, if you are going to mod it anyway, there's not enough of an increase to justify the extra money spent for the new model. I'm not going to mod mine (except for tires), so for me, it was worth it. And I don't want the extra noise of headers and exhaust upgrades -- which is the cost of extra hp. But it seems that most of you want that extra noise and "firmer" ride, and if that's what you want, then you get very little benefit from a new model.

I feel my '17 BRZ is faster than my '13 OFT Stage 2 FR-S.

But it could all be in my head... then again, my FR-S put down 175WHP on the dyno... :lol:

I believe stock '13-16 is closer to 160WHP. Stock '17+ gets about 180WHP, and don't forget the more aggressive gearing -- I noticed that the most when I switched.

So you’ve had the 4.1 and the 4.3, but if you could switch to a 4.56 would you? Or would that make the gearing too short for DD?

The difference between my 2018 and 2013 is night and day but it’s a tS vs an early FRS

I'm not surprised if the facelift model is a little better in responsiveness as they have stiffened up the rear subframe, a little smaller diameter steering wheel, and chassis strengthening at various places. Also the new suspension has a different tune.

I'm happy with the 4.3, mainly because it's a fairly conservative gain in mechanical torque, and I don't have to throw more monies at the car. :)

I got a great deal on Tomei EL headers.

Would slapping those on make a difference and make it closer in terms of responsiveness? Is a tune necessary with EL headers?

A tune is always necessary to gain HP form adding parts.

Would an exhaust + header + tune make it "feel" as or more responsive than the newer models?

Oh yeah, more so.

I think the 4.3 is a good happy medium. If I was starting with the 4.1 and was going to spend the money to upgrade then I would go for the 4.56


I don't see the need to go from 4.3 to 4.56 unless the labor was easy and I could figure out myself on the cheap

On any stock 86 "responsive" is subjective.

I can't offer any comparison, because I have not driven a newer version. Though judging form many threads on this forum: header + OFT+ e85 is a great way to build some decent power without going FI.

Some of the output increase happened on the '14+ models with the engine valve revision and the rest happened after the revision. Anyway, Toyota/Subaru wanted for some reason to register a 5 hp increase. So, let's stay on the catalog specs.

Having poked around in the forums I would guess that the 2017s got a more aggressive tune out of the box.
There is a thread which I will post below which shows a factory 2017 car making near identical numbers as a QFT stage 1 tune.

When you start to add the same aftermarket parts and tune accordingly the differences between the year ranges narrows to where it's near indistinguishable.

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=121315


If you plan to drive the car stock forever I suppose the 2017 car has a slight edge, along with the snappier gearing. Beyond that there isn't much of a difference.

most reviews I read by people who do not own either but have driven both said there was not much difference. I would bet its more butt dyno than real performance gains.

get yourself a tune stge1 or headers and stg2 and you will be better off anyway. only reason to get a 17 is PP and if you want to go FI. The changes they made will not amount to anything for DD.

I may have missed it, but I'm a bit surprised the word "bushings" has not been mentioned yet.

In case anybody's wondering, this has a name: confirmation bias. If you want something to be true, it's likely you'll perceive it as true, especially when the evaluation criteria are completely subjective. As in, you install Special Part #7 because you're hoping for better throttle response, so you'll perceive better throttle response even if the improvement isn't really there. Because who can prove you wrong?

Confirmation bias may sell more cold air intakes than any other factor. "I haven't put it on a dyno, but that cold air intake definitely improved throttle response! (Even though I can't ever prove that because it's all just a feeling.)"

Especially with the change in gearing, I suspect the feel of the newer 86s is two parts reality and one part confirmation bias.

Just changing the sound of a car can make it seem faster. I know in my head that my Corsa exhaust doesn't add any power (or throttle response, a confirmation bias favorite), but it sure did add a lot of life to the driving experience and make the car seem a lot faster. The same thing happened when I put a cowl intake on my Jeep and suddenly had raw intake noise being piped right into the cabin. You feel invincible in that thing until a minivan blows your doors off.

I remember Mr. Tada said once that in our cars (before the revision) the best hp gains value for money was to install a better air filter. For some reason the standard filter is quite restrictive (emissions, noise or whatever else). Does this mean that you'll get an entirely different car? No! The change is so small that you might notice it or not notice it at all. Even if you notice it, your body and senses will adapt to it and next time the change won't be there. So, sometimes it is confirmation bias and other times it is just a very small gain.

Actually with the money you saved you can do that and get 4.56 or higher final drive and you'll get that "responsiveness" and then some