Will I be happy with the 86/BRZ?
 

Hi all, I'm regretting going with a boring car (2017 Mazda3) to replace my 2014 mk6 GTI.

Things I miss from the GTI
1. Sound deadening.
2. Stability on the highway
3. At its best when driven easy, can hold its own when driven hard

It had the best signal-to-noise ratio. Offered feedback where it counts (steering clutch, brakes, suspension, etc) without being jarring or loud.

The Mazda3 doesn't do anything really well. Interior material is nice, but quite loud on highway, steering is too light, ride is too stiff for something so slow.

I am considering trading it in and getting either

1. 10th gen Civic Si--not as refined as the GTI or maybe not even as much as the Mazda3, but I'll have a lot of low-end torque going through a real LSD (helical though). More practical and probably more daily-friendly than the BRZ/86

2. GTI. Had it as a Turo over the weekend. The mk7 is more refined but became more numb compared to the mk6 that I had.

3. BRZ/86. I haven't driven it yet, so we'll see what happens.

Has anyone considered selling the car due to the the lack of torque, the stiff ride, and loudness on the highway? I think those would be my only only concerns with the BRZ/86

The GTI and Civic are not sports cars but are hot hatches. If you want great handling, go for the sports car. If you want to drag from light to light, get a hot hatch. If you want quiet, get a Cadillac or Audi. If you want stability on the highway, get a Mercedes. Decide what you want in a car....

Gti is hard to beat for a practical car with good track potential.

Can’t say about 17, brz did drive slightly more relaxed and I think it’s because slightly softer rear. These cars are known for great handling and driving dynamics. They do need a little help on power if you are used to gtis

Yeahhh you should probably steer clear of the 86 platform. It doesn't sound like it meets any of your desires in a car. Mostly basing that on your desire to drive a refined sports car (which I gathered from your post).

1. There is very little sound deadening. If you can't stand hearing what the road sounds like at every moment, this car will drive you nuts.
2. I'd say the car is fairly stable on the highway. It does get light and darty when pushing higher speeds though. But for the most part, the car just goes where you want.
3. IMO, the car does not like being babied. People will say there's no power, and you definitely get more of your money's worth if you play around in the higher revs. Not saying you can't drive it softly, but the car truly comes alive when you push to the limits.

The 86 provides a visceral experience. You will hear all the strange noises and you can feel it all through your feet, butt, and fingertips.

Best advice: go drive one.

Hello squelchy451 and welcome to ye ol forum :clap:

Yep, like said above, go drive one, what you experience on a test drive is what you get, it don't change much ;)

If I want to drive a quiet, relatively powerful, stable car, I will drive my wife's Saturn Aura XR. However, the only time I choose it, is when I'm hauling grandchildren :D


humfrz

It is no where near as refined as a GTI, you won't have the mid range grunt either. You really have to drive the 86 to get the best out of it. Keeping the revs up when you want to accelerate quickly.


I would suggest test driving a 17+ car first perhaps, or both to see the differences. The facelift cars are ever so slightly more refined over the 13-16 cars. A tiny bit quieter, the shocks were retuned and have better compliance on the road. The six speed manuals have a closer ratio 4.3FD over the old 4.1 which should make the engine feel a bit snappier.

You will probably hate the 86 platform if road noise and interior appointments are a must have.

Gtis are like a normal commuter car IMO. Maybe look at a focus st or something? That seems to be more in line with what you're saying you want.

This might take the prize for the most trollific post I've seen here.

In case you are serious, don't waste your time on the 86/BRZ. It is the exact opposite of what you say you want.

Just get another GTI

Lease it for 36 months and turn it in for another.

That way you avoid the big maintenance ticket items and time in service bay. I used to own a GTI too.

Your engine will blow up, tranny will fall out and minivans will pass you every single day. Or at least that what it seems like if you read this forum.

If looking for refined this is not the car. If looking for shear driving pleasure when you get to play than it is a very good choice.
Test drive is the only way you can decide.

As someone who currently owns a mk6 GTI and FR-S, they are very different.

The GTI is quiet, refined, practical, and torquey.

The FR-S is none of those things.

But what it offers is a high-strung engine, lots of feedback, quick steering (almost twitchy on a highway), balanced handling, and RWD with a LSD. On the track, it is sublime. In a straight line, not so much.

Based on the things you've said, I think you should consider another mk6 GTI, Golf R or S3. Possibly an M3 if you can afford it.

OP, you should be looking at the Lexus RC 200t 2.0 F Sport

I'm wondering why OP went with a downgrade by going from a GTI to a Mazda3, which doesn't have a Mazdaspeed equivalent for this generation, only to complain about it...shoulda gone with a Civic hatch sport.

Errr based on your liking............go balls out and get a golf R or used S3.

if you think mazda 3 is loud.............you gonna hang yourself in a BRZ.



But i wanna know why you went from GTi to mazda3 in the first place.

Killed it :clap:

:burnrubber::burnrubber::burnrubber:

I just came from a mk7r and dont regret it at all.

No, never.
- Lack of torque - Mods
- Stiff ride - Like
- Loudness - No care

Please drive one.
It's not for everyone. Only 8600 of you. Or something like that, right?

No. You will not want the BRZ.

It is meant to be a loud, simple template for a racecar.

If you want to cross-shop relative to the GTi, you need to look at the STi or WRX instead.

I would personally suggest a used STi.

- brian

Unless, he went with the 2.5L Touring, which is a bit more comparable to a Civic Sport. Also the Mazda has a lot less fake vents.

The 2.5 still doesn't compare to that new 1.5 turbo...and I happen to like the looks :iono:

either way, OP went from a FI to a NA 4 banger, not sure what he expected to happen after the test drive..

OP everything you list is something the FR-S/BRZ is bad at. Go for a test drive but expect it to not be a competitor to the GTI in those areas. The Civic Si seems more up your alley.

The Civic Si is not a hatchback.

It's not quite a sedan, either. In the olden days we'd call it a "fastback". I would still include it in the "hot hatch" category even though that is not "technically" correct. Where would you put it?

Say what? Less than half a second difference in 0-60 "doesn't compare"?

Civic 180 HP/177 ft/lb
Mazda 184 HP / 185 ft/lb

If you think a Mazda 3 is loud then no

Number doesn't mean everything especailly since he is used to VW Turbos cars where torque come in at super low like around 2k.

I'm sure mazda torque comes in pretty high rpm compare to civic.... :iono:

This car is not for every one, and that's true.

What I like about this car is when people is braking before a corner, but I can still press the gas pedal.

I get that the GTI and BRZ/86 at different things and that I'll be making compromises with either of them. I'll go on test drives, maybe find one on Turo to see if I can see myself with this car on a long term basis.

Thanks all

Please don't obfuscate my post. I didn't post the numbers to find some sort of "meaning" or how important they are to the driver, to the car, or life in general.

Please read what I responded to. I posted them to refute the point that the Honda 1.5 Turbo and Mazda 2.5L "don't compare" when clearly, they do. It's as simple as that.

yes, I agree on paper the difference isn't that big for some measurements, but considering all the torque from the 1.5 is available just under 2000 RPMs, the 2.5 isn't comparable for a person coming from a GTI where the max torque output comes at 1500 :iono: the driving experience is quite different from the get go so hence my confusion as to why he left the lot with the Mazda 3.

GTI got in a crash. I didn't want to get into the whole modding scene and got a boring car with some handling chops.



Fast forward 3 months later and it's been a mistake.


I don't really miss the low end torque, but with how uncomfortable the Mazda3 has been, may as well be driving a BRZ/86.


I went for a test drive today, didn't get much feel for it as it ended up being a short one. Hoping there's a Turo listing of a BRZ/86 so I can get a few days' driving on it.

I think what I was getting at is--has this car been so uncomfortable for someone that they had to sell it and get a different car?


I know the BRZ/86 is not as refined/quiet/soft as the GTI, which is a hot hatch, not a RWD sports car. And that it won't be as quiet or soft as the Mazda3, but I am willing to put up with it since it's a very engaging car.

There haven't been many folks here who have sold their twin due to their disappointment with DDing comfort as I think it is pretty obvious from the get go so people who want a cushy ride usually never end up getting one. Besides people going for an upgrade to the twins, the biggest reasons for selling that I've seen have been due to the owner's family situation (lack of space) or disappointment in power.

Well, squelchy, we have had our 2013 FR-S for almost 5 years and I've never been uncomfortable driving it and mrs humfrz has never complained about riding in it. We are of average size and I'm 75 years old and mrs humfrz is getting up there also, so we ain't real flexible no more... :)

Like I said before, what you experience when you take a test drive is what it is. It's not going to get any bigger, quieter or more powerful.

Like ol @HKz says, it seems that the reason most people on this forum sell their twin is because their family has outgrown it.


Good on ya!


humfrz

I'd offer you up much of the same from what other's have said.

Lacks general power if you're not willing to wring out the engine
There's plenty of great feedback in the car and road noise is one of them.
It is small and good luck fitting much of anything in the back seats besides a backpack or someone sitting crossed with their legs up in the back.

On the flip side though I can give you my personal experience with it. I love the car. Truly! It is by no means a balanced vehicle. Rather, it's a highly specialized car that focuses on handling and total control. Frankly, I have never felt this refined in any other vehicle and think you'd be hard pressed to find one that is this specialized without doubling the price and stepping up to say a Cayman.

The biggest thing that routinely sticks out to me throughout the time I've owned the car is how "grounded" I feel. I genuinely feel as if I'm one with the car. A comparison I often link it to in my life is wearing shoes. I personally have a preference for shoes that fit my feet rather snug or tight if you will. I don't need them cutting off circulation but I like them to feel like an extension of my feet as opposed to someone I place that protects and covers my feet and weighs me down, my feet shift with each step because they're loose, they lack the support and as such walking in them gets uncomfortable after a while, etc. I feel that same thing here when I drive my BRZ in comparison to any other vehicle. I get a sense of control and feedback that can best be described as being "grounded" and one with the car. It's one of the most beautiful things about this vehicle.

As for your question of if people have sold it. I'll just give you my experience with it. I have decided I would like to keep this car for as long as I can possibly make it fit in my life. I mean literally as long as possible. That means through restomods, chassis fixes in the future, rust prevention, the whole deal. I often view my BRZ as the link below from Mazda. I want my BRZ to travel with me to a time in the future where I can be go back through the life I'm living now when I know in the future, kids, bills, life, etc, will require me to leave many of my hobbies and the like on the back burner.

I'd also like to note that the BRZ is a vehicle that offers me a few things in this realm of reasonably priced sports cars to choose from that others simply don't. Coming from Preludes back in the day and other older Japanese sports cars (240z), I value 2+2 coupes. Then you start adding RWD, reliability, NA, good looks, boxer engine, low CoG, spacious trunk (fits what's needed for track setup), canyon carver > touring vehicle, etc. It becomes apparent very quickly that there is no other sports car sub 40-45k that checks those boxes.

I will offer you something though, as a person who clearly cherishes my BRZ and wants to preserve it in as many ways as possible, I would definitely advise getting a second car. I'm actually picking one up later today to designate as my daily driver. There are many times where it is quite frustrating that I can't fit a third in my car. That some items just won't fit in the car. It has led me to realize that once again, the BRZ is a specialized vehicle. It does what it does exceptionally well and is unapologetic about what it doesn't. As such, I think having a vehicle to fill other practical needs makes a ton of sense.

Sorry for the long winded response. Just was in a mood to share my story. Thanks!

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My brother just bought a GTI. I tried to talk him into a Twin when he was shopping, even lent him our 2015 AT for a week to try out. He didn't like the Twin for DD because of a lack of "creature comforts" and comfort in general.

He loves the Twins when it comes to spirited driving/competition....so he bought a GTI for his DD and co-drives with us at autocross events in our MT FRS.

My brother is 6' 1" (I'm 5' 10") so that may have contributed to his comfort issue.

I prefer the feel of a NA engine, which is why I went for the Mazda over the newly turbocharged Honda or a Volkswagen, initially. There are some days where I miss the effortless nature of a turbo engine through city driving, but those are few and far between. In fact, I'd even be happy with a GTI if they happened to sell a NA variant making similar power to my Mazda.

I wouldn't consider road noise to be a form of feedback, it's just...noise. I keep on harping on about the signal-to-noise ratio of the vehicle because if I am not getting much feedback from the steering and pedals, it better be quiet in there. I'm looking to bringing it up by cutting down on the noise (GTI) or upping the signal (BRZ).

Lack of space won't be an issue 90% of the time...even when I have to pick someone up it's just one more person. Seats fold fine, so my bike can fit in there. The rear seats just really is a storage bench with seat belts.

I think you hit the nail on the head for what I probably value the most in a car--a feeling of connection.

I guess the reason why I'm dilly-dallying so much is because of diminishing marginal utility. If a BRZ/86 offers 100% driver control, feedback, handling, let's just say a GTI can match 70% of that 90% of the time. How much refinement, low-end torque, usable back seats, fuel economy, etc am I willing to give up for that?

I realize that it's a question only I would be able to answer, so sorry about any frustrations you members might feel about the inanity of this question.

I'm not expecting the BRZ/86 to be like the GTI, or the other way around.. It just boils down to do I want a car that's pretty good at everything or one that is a specialist. A Swiss army knife versus a katana, if you will.

Test Drive

See if a dealer will rent one to you for the weekend. Then go find some corkscrew roads - left right up down.

Then you will know

You should test drive it.

Probably test drive it.

Can I suggest a test drive?

Definitely test drive.

Have you thought about a test drive?

So, a test drive then?

Test drive.

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