Whats this noise?
 

Here is clip of me revving it in neutral not stepping on the clutch pedal

https://youtu.be/wnndTIw5VyA

Don't tell me its TOB without some serious proof lol, its neutral and clutch pedal is not pressed! if i press the clutch pedal the noise goes away.

Any ideas?

Since I can't guess TOB, I'll guess gear rollover ……..;)


humfrz

Sorry, it's the TOB. Early signs of failure. Mine did that same noise when I hit 60k. My tob when out at 80k. So.... it's better to start saving or thinking about replacing it in a while.

Then again who knows it could be belt or something lose. Who knows.

That's TOB. Mine is doing the same thing at 112k km, and I'm getting ready to replace it soon. Would be worthwhile to upgrade the clutch fork while you're in there too

That is TOB.
Just wait too long and you will have your proof.

https://www.ft86club.com/forums/atta...1&d=1522768889

https://www.ft86club.com/forums/atta...1&d=1522768889

Hey @Tcoat, I replied in another thread for this sound from OP; I'll be at the dealership the next 2 days for fuel pump replacement as well as having this noise checked out. Originally thought input shaft but now leaning towards TOB. Since this noise way my original reason for being there, should I just pay for a clutch/TOB replacement while im there?
They told me anything clutch-related is out the window for warranty since 3/36k is up. Noise goes away after warmup so i'm leaving it overnight tomorrow so they can coldstart it and hear the whine. Would TOB do that, and about how much should I expect for a clutch/TOB job?

Also, @PurpleSpaceShip i'll try and update you within the next couple days with what the dealership tells me/whatever I get done. I have the same exact noise under the same conditions as this and the other post. Hopefully its as easy as TOB like tcoat and humfrz say.

Cold start noise that goes away with warm up or pushing the clutch was the very early warning signs that I had. If left it gets much worse until the TOB melts down like in my pictures. If caught early you do not need to have the clutch done since it would not be damaged yet.

OP - that's TOB for sure. TCoat nailed it, I ignored those early warning signs and mine died on track at my last event. Mine had 25K miles on it, but roughly 6k of them were track miles.

And as an aside - if you do wait too long, you get this done to your pressure plate and the aluminum snout over the input shaft that the TOB rides on lol...so budget for a clutch and that cover/snout. And the FSM says the bolts for the cover are one time use. The seven of them are $6 a piece at the dealer...

Dude - I was going to put up pics of my TOB, but yours trumps all - it really did MELT DOWN lol! My TOB carnage cannot compete...and your TOB quill/cover looks totally fragged. Must be more common than I thought on these cars. At least your wear plate hiding the background looks TOASTED as well, so it was clutch time all the same. Mine still had life, but while the thing is apart, might as well swap it. Pulling the trans is not the most fun thing in the world.


Heed the warning OP. TOB is the chant of the "been there, done that R&R" crowd.

Yep. I knew what was happening but waited too long. Went from the whirring noise to a squeak to a scream and then a bang. Took a few months though. Was totally my own fault for procrastinating on the repair.
In my 20 or so MT cars I have only ever had to replace one clutch and it was a 40 year old car. This clutch would have been fine if I had just changed the TOB when the noise started.

Imho it's not that common to these cars, as looks rather generic for TOB, as rather these cars more commonly are abused, clutch & it's TOB included :)

well, no problem bro, because if its TOB its actually an easier fix lol. i hope that turns out to be the problem.


@jfarkas ok bro ill keep an eye for your message thank you for this!

My problem with TOB diagnosis is that i actually have a "new" gearbox. i bought of some guy from facebook. its supposed to be 8k milage 2015 brz gearbox. and i also installed new Exedy OEM replacement clutch kit. if that really is TOB thats making the noise the mechanic must have installed it improperly. idk man.

What are some other symptoms of bad clutch fork? mines seems to go in neutral rather uncomfortably from 4th gear. you know it does not feel notch y and satisfying like other gears.

It is very common with these cars. The first version of the TOB was not properly lubricated and this lead to premature failure. The new part number is the exact same bearing but with improved lubrication. It is a known issue with a TSB released to address it not just a matter of abuse.

100% this ^^


The revised PN is around here somewhere... I ordered 3 to have a couple on hand.

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/2017...ff73d11654.jpg




Gotta love how Subaru blames the driver!
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/attac...1&d=1493666171






If done soon enough the bearing is cheap.
https://parts.toyota.com/p/Toyota_20...U00307349.html

All I know, is there are a lot of unknowns in these sentences ^^. But the sound - which granted has been diagnosed by strangers through a youtube sound clip - seemingly points to a known, factory acknowledged by TSB problem.


The Exedy clutch kit I put in came with and identical NTN bearing to the original that died. Same Japanese origin stamping, NTN stamp etc. The new PN has the white paint dot, that the clutch kit bearing did not have.


Knowing that the clutch was recently removed and replaced, just makes it more likely in my mind to it being related to that system in some way. Not pointing the finger at the mechanic, just saying recent system disassembly and the occurrence of symptoms immediately following, are more than likely related.


Good luck purplespaceship! Do you know if the tube the TOB rides on was damaged at all when the new clutch went in? Was it cleaned and greased properly upon install?

Yes, information such as a tranny swap is important to give up front when asking the question but it doesn't change the fact that the clip sounds EXACTLY like the start of a TOB going bad. With the new info it could of course be anything but I am sticking to my first thoughts.

The dealership quoted me $1300-$1800 depending on how bad it was when I went in for my TOB/clutch fork. They insisted changing out the entire clutch while they were in there, which definitely makes sense but at those prices I took my keys and ran.

I bought the Exedy OE clutch kit, a new OEM clutch fork, and the updated Toyota TOB for $342 and my mechanic charged me $500 for labor. I suggest doing the same.

My pressure plate also looked like this, but slightly worse, and my clutch fork was full of metal shavings. The clutch wasn't looking too hot either. My TOB was probably a thousand miles or so away from complete failure. I wish it had occurred to me to take pictures but it was hot when I went to pick up my car and I was tired. In any case, don't put this off people!

Since the clutch and bearing were replaced recently another possibility is that the mechanic did not press in the pilot bearing correctly or damaged it by pressing it into the flywheel. If the dust shield is damaged on the pilot bearing it will make a noise like you have in the video.

If it is the release bearing the tone of the noise would change when the clutch pedal is depressed. When the clutch is disengaged the release bearing is under load from the diaphragm spring and if the bearing is the source of the noise it should change.

damaged pilot bearing means new flywheel? am i right?

Really bad one does. Has to be pretty bad. My TOB was about as bad as they can get but the flywheel just needed resurfacing. With the light sounds from the video I doubt that you would need anything more than just the bearing.

can i order the pilot bearing through dealership? how much would that cost? OEM replacement of flywheel is around $200 if im not mistaken

You can or you can order online. They are not expensive.
https://parts.toyota.com/p/Toyota_20...U00307349.html


No idea what a flywheel costs but if it is torn up then the rest of the clutch will be as well.

the item in the link, thats throw out bearing, isnt it?

Ooops sorry. I didn't read well enough.
The shaft bearing is not likely your issue since your noise goes away when you push the clutch. It is also impossible for it to touch the flywheel.

so if you had to guess, would u say issue is inside the gearbox or outside?

I have told you what my guess is. I have little doubt.

Ft86 speedfactory has OEM replacement exedy flywheels for much less. With a pilot bearing pressed in.

Well, just got back from the dealership; they did the HPFP to kill the crickets, which is actually kind of nice to have fixed. Talked to them about the transmission as well.

The tech who did the work and test drove it this morning said the only noise he could hear was the fuel pump before replacement, and just normal transmission noise/gear rollover.



I told him the noise and conditions it happened in, and that it was infrequent in warmer weather but more noticeable in the cold. He said even if it was in early stages of going bad, TOB would make more noise, as he's replaced them before and input-shaft/pilot bearing would be constant and far less likely to become inaudible even after warmup. Also said clutch still felt almost new despite my hooning of the car, they could tell I baby it lol.



Thinking back, I started noticing it around the time I replaced the stock gear oil with Redline MT90, which is a little bit thicker, and I also did so in the fall when it got cooler out. Their conclusion was the thicker fluid takes longer to warm up, leading to more gearbox noise which is why it goes away after a couple minutes of warmup or driving or when I clutch in, since it decouples the engine from tranny and the tranny spins down to a stop. They said it doesn't sound concerning and that it's just how these cars are with practically no sound deadening; you just hear more noise you wouldn't normally hear in other cars.



So in my case at least, its apparently just gear rollover as @humfrz guessed and nothing imminently breaking itself. They said if it gets worse or changes to bring it back in but otherwise, enjoy the car as it's meant to be driven and get to some track days. Super professional and helpful about everything, so i'm now loyal to that dealership and on first-name basis with the service advisor and tech.

bro are you sure your car made same noise as shown in the video? when mine is making noise clutch pedal is not pressed, the clutch pedal is not pressed. its in neutral and both feet are away from pedals. was this the case with your car?

I will say this one more time and then give up.


The TOB MAKES noise when the clutch is NOT depressed. It STOPS making noise when you push the clutch. If you let it get bad enough you can play a little song by pushing and releasing the clutch. If your noise comes and goes with the clutch pressed or released it is NOT gear rollover, internals or pilot bearings it is clutch related with the most likely culprit being the TOB.

The TOB is in constant contact with the pressure plate fingers is what tcoat is saying. Whether you touch clutch pedal or no, the bearing is touching and should be spinni g smoothly. Just with no load to support until you press the pedal. Thus it can vibrate and squeak until you press pedal, slack is taken up, and the bearing can't vibrate.

Yes sir, same conditions. Clutch not pressed, in neutral, feet off the pedals. I mentioned to him about the TOB and if it could be an early warning sign of it becoming deformed with/without load as @Tcoat said, but he's worked on these cars before was confident after test driving that it wasn't related.

Considering I wasn't even there for the parts they replaced and didn't even realize it could be warrantied, and that they offered replacement proactively, I don't feel they're trying to screw me by lying to me about the TOB either. So while in the end, there's always the chance it could still end up being that, I'm confident in the tech's diagnosis of mine and comfortable driving until it actually actively starts failing, if it ever does. :iono:

No it does not mean new flywheel.

you can but the pilot bearing and press it in the flywheel. Find a socket that will rest on the outer race of the bearing and use that to press out the old bearing and then press in the new.

I'm dying to know Purple Space Ship - did you find the root cause of your noise?