Best combination of headers and cat back’s
 

Hey guys,
I’m planning to change the header and exhaust. I have 2015 brz, m/t and it’s completely stock for now. What would you recommend as the best combination for daily driving with low rumble, but not to loud so that it could be useful in the longer distances? Also, supercharger is in plans. Considering sprintex 210, but there is also Edelbrock, jackson racing, but sprintex sound is just amazing to my ear and gives the right amount of power in order keeping everything else in stock. So what would you recommend? Budget for header is up to 1000$, exhaust up to 1000$, supercharger around 5000$ not including the instalation and tuning.

If you want rumble, get JDL or Tomei UEL headers.

Catbacks are highly subjective, but I'd recommend the Perrin 2.5" resonated or Q300 for tried and true "quiet" options. CSG's Laguna 90 is also supposed to be nice, but I haven't heard it myself.

Ive got the OFT header and Invidia r400 catback and love the sound. Deep, not too loud, nice burble at idle, screams at wot

Thank you for the recommendations! :)
Btw, since i’m not living in US, from which shop/site would you recommend buying all the stuff above? I’m considering Ft speed factory, but in their site there is a security problem or what, cause in chrome it says it’s not secure, so i’m not sure about that.

FT86SF is legit

As mentioned above if you want the rumble UEL is the way to go and personally if you don't want to be loud get a header with a cat in it and opt for a cat or resonator wherever possible. I have the Greddy Evo GT cat back with the JDL 3" over / front pipe with a cat and resonator and the JDL UEL with cat and it is very deep and has a great rumble. However even though it has the two cats and the resonator in the front pipe it can be pretty loud on throttle. A lot depends if you are going to replace the front and over pipe too cause that can greatly add to sound level. I would recommend the JDL catted UEL for the rumble and the corsa cat back or greddy supreme SP for a more deep and quiet exhaust when coupled to a header. but as always loudness is relative and changes from person to person. Here is a link to a short clip of my car so you can hear what my combination sounds like.

https://photos.google.com/share/AF1Q...1ULUdEVXVGRk1B

Just save up a bit more and get a ace header it’s worth it. If cost is really an issue you could get the type B 150 for 1150$. Best exhaust is CSG mxp touring86 899$ it’s 2.75” piping for better performance and future proofs you for FI also the sound is a nice crisp deeper tone no drone about the same loudness as stock. And toss in a hks double res or a jdl ultra quiet front pipe to finish it off both about 250$. This will get you best performance, really nice clean but not too loud noise, and future proof you for FI

I've got OpenFlash Headers, stock front pipe, and Perrin 2.5" resonated CBE. Sound is perfect for me, I get the rumble on acceleration and a steady hum when cruising as a DD. Would definitely recommend the Perrin if you want the low rumble but still want a reasonably low sound volume.

Greddy also - good build, good sound, not too loud. Keep in mind if you go with a Kraftwerks SC, any header with piping that goes up in front of the crank hub will possibly interfere with the crank hub adapter with that kit. Regarding headers, pick UEL or EL for the sound, then work from there based on budget. You can usually pick up a good EL or UEL header used in the classifieds for around $500.

Thank you all for the recommendations :) I'm truly greatful! :) I have some research to do now when i know what to look for!
I'll be putting supercharger, however, my heart wants that supercharger insane noise from sprintex. It reminds me a bit of koenigsegg agera sound and i love that car and especially that sound. Edelbrock was my favourite long time, but i'm a bit afraid that it will give me more power than stock can handle and then it would go from there to another upgrades.
As for daily car, I want only these 3 things, cause they would change the car but it won't turn it into the race car on the streets.
OFT header is fairly cheap one (600$) comparing to other headers JDL or Tomei. Would i feel the difference between them in DD? What about tune?
Also, i was considering FT86 speed factory V1 exhaust. I like the sound, it's not too loud but maybe i'm wrong about the loudness? Perrin and Greddy is in consideration also. Q300 is out, cause it sounds too stock. At this moment i'm planning to change header, exhaust (without front pipe) and also sprintex 210. So if anybody knows more good combinations I would be really grateful for that :)

jjorgen

Wow!! what a nice sound! But isn't it too loud? i mean, i drive a lot my BRZ (around 100 miles a day) and i'm afraid that the sound would wear me down. However, the noise is epic!

one of my local buddies here has it and I followed him on the road once and couldn't hear my corsa through his FT86 V1. It's loud like it's got an aftermarket header.

Hey sbmantas, with my exhaust I will say having the cat in the header and front pipe with the resonator in the front pipe as well keeps it very quiet while just cruising. I can cruise down the highway in between 25-55 mph and have a conversation with my girlfriend with out raising my voice at all and there is zero drone. I can actually listen to the radio at very low volumes just fine throughout my whole drive. However the minute you give it gas the sound really picks up and when your on it you definitely hear it and its loud. My biggest suggestion would be keeping cats and resonators whenever possible or else the exhaust can get loud and drone quick. that is why I opted for the JDL catted UEL. Also by keeping the cats there is no gas smell. I will also say a lot depends on how you drive if your a more aggressive driver who is on throttle more this setup would be a little loud, however if your like me and just drive very passively then its not loud at all. To answer your other question with having the headers put on I definitely felt a difference by itself even for just casual daily driving and once it was tuned the difference was magnified.

jjorgen
Thanks man! That sort of combination I was looking for! Sometimes i like to push it, but most of the time i'm driving it casually :) Hopefully, JDL UEL + Greddy Evo gt + sprintex 210 will bring me the ultimate driving sensation what i'm looking for. Furthermore, my budget for this whole thing was around 10k$, but now it will be around ( JDL - 766$ + Greddy - 830$ + Sprintex 210 3100$ + installation and tuning ) 5,5-6k$. It might be enough for OZ golden superlaggera's and Michelin SuperSport too, so it's win-win!!
Thanks again! I'm really excited about this!

TBQH most people when they start modding always just want a little more. And if you cheap out on a few things your robbing yourself of some power and pleasure. You may end up having to up the boost to compensate losing reliability. Get the intercooler adds a tiny bit of power but keeps the power more consistent when driving hard and can run the same boost safer. There is one in classifieds for $2400 with intercooler.

I would try to max out your NA flow from best header frontpipe and exhaust to then maximize your supercharger potential with out needing to run more boost.

The main bottleneck in the exhaust is the cats. Most headers make barely more then decatted stock header besides ace header blowing them all out the water. Don’t be cheap now and regret it later. After decatted header, next bottleneck is frontpipe those are pretty cheap though. Exhaust is more a sound preference but be warned decatting your exhaust makes it much louder so a more tame exhaust for a DD would be best IMO. Although with a charger you really want a 2.75” for lower boost or even 3” for higher boost.

Google ace header and CSG mxp touring86. Very clean crisp and deeper then stock. Best possible performance for NA and low to med boost. Then you can tweak the sound with front pipe, double res FP cleans it up more, a high flow catted FP will tame it down a tad and help a little with smell, or just test pipe for cost/performance.

Lastly you will need a tune for all this. Delicioustuning has some packages for ecutek + ace header, or even innovate charger if you don’t have a tuner near by. Those are roughly 95% optimal.

Grimmspeed intake (which can work with innovate) ace 350, frontpipe, exhaust + tune should put you at 205whp with 93, or 215 with E85 then toss in innovate with 7psi 240 on 93 or 255 on e85. This would be the safest most reliable max power setup.

jjorgen
however, 1 question. I just read that greddy evo gt sits lower to the ground than others, like perrin, invidia etc. Was this thing an issue for you?

86TOYO2k17

Thank you for your long and descriptive recommendation! I'm still considering the final combination, however, jjorgen's suggested would fit me, i'm still researching all the stuff.
So, to conclude, you would suggest ace headers, CSG mxp exhaust and don't put the supercharger because of the reliability? But, from all the post's sprintex had some minor, edelbrock was kind of perfect for DD, and overall the change in power is undeniable. For me, the power is the issue here. Yeah i know, i know that brz is fun to drive and all, but all my previous cars were 300+ hp, mostly BMW's and in my brz i can't comfortably overtake somebody and that's an issue for me, so that's why i'm considering supercharger.
In your opinion, would you take sprintex (f.e. with intercooler) or edelbrock or jackson racing for your DD car?
I googled the combination and i like the sound and all. I would need to add this into consideration, because it's ±300$ more than jjorgen's suggested combination and i'm not planning to sell my brz soon, so if it would be worth investing i will :)
Since you might haven't noticed i'm not from US, i'm from Europe, Lithuania to be exact. In here we have 95 and 98 and nearby there are some quite good tuners so the tuning part won't be an issue here. Also we have e85 but since it is my daily, it doesn't make much sense going or 85.
Thanks again for the comments! I really enjoyed them! :)

Yes, Ace header (350/250/150) depending on goal. And CSG MXP touring86. Also I highly recommend a front pipe but up to you. Is your car RHD?

No, I do highly recommend getting the innovate/Sprintex charger it has been shown to be very reliable at lower boost. But I recommend intercooler for sure for slightly added power but mostly consistency and reliability reasons. Intercooled innovate/Sprintex 210 at 7-8psi should be very good for a DD.

Member classifieds has a Intercooled sprintex for 2400$ you can’t beat that deal! If I didn’t just have a kid I would have bought it myself already. But have to wait a bit now.

What is wrong with E85 for a DD? Best bang for buck upgrade, most places E85 is cheaper then premium (although worse gas mileage so evens out) and with flex fuel kit you can use premium E85 or even a mixture.

Yup, PERRIN resonated. Unless you want hella loud with a JDL Catted UEL header & Greddy EVO. You can also buy from 86speed.com. just my 2¢¢ ;)

Inaccurate:thumbsup:

Which part gutted stock header?
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=96235
I see you even posted in this thread.

Or Ace header blowing competition out of water? Many threads and dynos about this.

I would say a ace 350 (highest torque lowest hp) has the low/mid torque of a JDL UEL with the top end HP of a JDL EL, best of both worlds. The 250 (highest combined torque and hp) still has a slight dip but instead of 15-20ftLB for 1k rpm it’s about 5-8ftLb for 500rpm. But more then makes up for it 4500rpm to redline. The 150 (highest HP lowest torque) does the least in the dip but the most up top.

So I just measured, my car is stock ride height and with the Greddy EVO GT the lowest part of the exhaust has 4.5" of ground clearance. I personally have never had an issue with bottoming out. I only see it being a problem if you plan on lowering the ride height of the car because I have gone up and come off some fairly steep embankments and never had an issue.

If a supercharger is in the pipeline then I think you have the money to swing for the Ace headers. I'm pretty certain Ace makes headers that are supposed to work nicely with the Edelbrock supercharger. However if you go with Ace you'll get no "rumble." To get that you'll have to go UEL, and if you do that I recommend JDL catless headers and their ultraquiet frontpipe if you want noise reduction

I can confirm that the V1 is very loud with a catless header (In my case, a Borla UEL V1). I had to add a vibrant resonator to make my FR-S more bearable as a daily, but it sounded mean and aggressive when you went WOT.

I'm probably going to only get a Corsa exhaust and call it done for my Kouki BRZ. :thumbup:

FYI: Cold starts got annoying until I did a "cold start" OFT tune.

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbrWfXa_qmQ"]Scion FR-S Borla UEL / FT86 SpeedFactory V1 Cold Start - YouTube[/ame]

Love my setup. FYI the invidia q300 gets a little louder over time. Catless header to extract all the power but a q300 to quite it down to under the 90db limit at race tracks. It is heavy tho.

Openflash Header catless UEL
Manzo Overpipe
Invidia catless resonated front pipe
Invidia Q300 catback

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IuYmRxvWUBY"]2013 Scion FRS Exhaust - Stage 2 exhaust rev - YouTube[/ame]

Both

- that gutted stock header improves on the torque dip for sure, but doesn't compete with some of the better header designs. I'm a fan of a well done gutted stock header, but it's silly to imply "Most headers make barely more then decatted stock header besides ace header blowing them all out the water". That's a garbage statement.

- 'blow out of the water' is incorrect. ACE is probably the best optimized header out there no doubt, but at a price. Don't frame it that ACE is the only option. A lot of kool-aid drinking going on in this forum IMHO. I've seen the threads. There are plenty of good headers out there that will make a significant difference in a stock car across the rev band (both UEL and EL). If you want the best? Then you are safe going with the ACE setup, but personally I'd rather put that extra $1000 to that supercharger :)

- you should know that dyno comparisons, while useful when looking a the before/after, shape of the curve etc. are otherwise pretty incomparable. Too many other factors (dyno calibration, other mods, tune, weather, altitude, who is presenting the info) come into play.

Not going to turn this into another reality vs ACE header crusade thread, but just thought I'd offer a little 'balance' to these statements. ACE is a good choice, but if you don't want to pay the big bucks there are plenty of lower cost options that will make quite a noticeable change in your power delivery.

Cheers,

Brad

Skip the bolt-ons and boost first.

UPDATE

well, i got the news, that my shipping carrier gives me a huuuuge price for shipping to my location and the supercharger is too costly to buy.
Can you give me recommendations how can i make more power without supercharger? Obviously air intakes and headers help, but maybe combination that gives the best output. Tuning will happen here and will be optimised and so on.

They gutted both the header and front pipe in that comparison.

Did you check out that sprintex 210 in classifieds on this forum for 2400?

Or if you only want new just get the Intercooled charger and a tune, and work on slowly adding the other peices

But best NA bolt-on setup IMO

Grimmspeed intake, ace header, catless frontpipe, CSG mxp exhaust. Flex fuel kit with a custom ecutek tune for e85. And if charging is really out of the question look at a FD swap once bolt-ons and e85 tune are done.

Best bang for buck setup would be openflash header and Openflash tablet with OTS E85 tune. That’s like 1200$ could toss in Grimmspeed intake all for under 1500$ and have probably 80% of the gains for fraction of price. First setup with out flex fuel and fd swap is about 3500$. 2k for that last 20%

Most ppl prefer bang for buck and run 2nd setup or something similar. It costs $ to be optimal and have the best. Ace headers are the best and highly recommended but cost to benefit ratio they are worse then a few of the other headers like JDL or OFH or even gutted stock header.

86TOYO2k17

Ok, so grimmspeed intake would give me spare 6whp and 4tq.
Which Ace header to choose? The price range for them is 1180$ to nearly 2000$.
What about intake manifold spacers? Are they efficient, good and etc?
Abou e85, i will not tune on to that, because although here we have this kind of petrol, however, it is rare in petrol stations and it will be a headache to search for one in foreign countries if i go to a trip somewhere. That is basically the main reason i don’t want it.
I reached out ft86 speedfactory and they recommended also Ace headers, jdl front/over pipe and they ensured me that their ft86 speedfactory exhaust v1 isn’t too loud driving it daily.
And no, i didn't check the sprintex, because the shipping of supercharger will cost me waaaay to much. They told me it would be around 1000$ for the shipping alone + import taxes, so in this case 4k$ supercharger would cost me around 7k$ alone. So in this case, maybe in Europe they will ship me for more realistic price.
OFT header and flash tablet would be suitable for me and it is fair to say that it wouldn't harm my wallet as other combinations and then i could buy OZ superlaggera's and Michelin SS too, so in this case maybe the bang for buck is the answer??

sbmantas:
regarding gains, worth to differentiate gains from part lone upgrade and cumulative gains. For NA some 35-40whp seems about max, and if 90% of those is got via eg. some good catless header+tune+airfilter+E86, there is very little to be had above that with more additional bolt on parts netting only slight gains above that, while they could have brought more gains if being only upgrade.
Which Ace? If you have LHD (most probably, due you being in EU/Lithuania), then A350. A250 or CS400 should be considered for those that have clearance problems with A/350 eg. on RHD cars.
There are noticeable gains for manifold spacers if used with everything else stock, including ecu tune. Much lesser gains with tune. I'd probably spend that money elsewhere then on those spacers, if you are set on getting good headers & tune.
For E85 .. if you go for Ace, very probably you'll go with Ecutek/DeliciousTuning ecu tune. Why not have two switchable tunes, one for normal petrol, one for E85? E85 main advantage is for it being high octane fuel for relatively cheap price (often due eco-subsidies cheaper then petrol, which is offset though with worse fuel mileage). So at very least it's viable alternative to race high octane petrol costing much more.
Regarding FT86SF advise .. they imho hastied a bit. At least there is mistake in that Ace headers have in their construction custom own overpipe (Ace gets longer runners by using also overpipe length for that, making included in set custom overpipe not interchangeable with other vendors' overpipes designed for fitment with stock-like header), so only frontpipe/catback can be used different. But then again, is it really needed if you gain most gains from header & tune? (see above about diminishing returns / NA bolton gains limits / individual parts diminishing gains). I'd probably limit myself to header + filter + tune, would leave stock catted front pipe for passing emission MOT tests and at most think of catback only for better sound, not performance reasons.
Regarding SC. Imho worth considering also Cossworth offering, especially if being in EU.
If you are starting mentioned other but engine bolt-on mods .. then yes, best investment would be camberbolts, LCAs, performance alignment, better tires, better brake pads & fluid, good track instructor and as much trackdays as you can find money/time for. It will make you faster driver then just from some power gain from bolt on mods for same budget :).

BEST output?

Race gas + Ace header + Ace front pipe.

Thank you guys! You helped a lot! And yes we have LHD :D There are like few countries in the world which are RHD why would you considering that Lithuania is RHD? :D
Really appreciate the help and the recommendations! Can't thank you enough! Now it's my turn to do the math about import taxes and so on. I will write what did i end up with buying :)

sbmantas: because in online used car listings in Lithuania from time to time i've seen relatively cheap (probably due RHD-ness) imports from UK :)

Churchx:
oh yeah, our country has some issues due people running from here to work abroad. UK is the most popular destination cause of the language. 2nd is Norway and so on. We have really good automotive industry in reselling cars, because we have relatively cheap labour force, low car prices and even germans come to us buy a car, cause the quality is quite good. the most often scenario is that we buy from US or other EU countries crashed cars and rebuild them in a way that it's like brand new. However, i'm not part of this industry but all people in our country knows how it's done. F.e. taking my BRZ into account, i bought it half a year ago. It's 2015, run and drive, front end collision and the whole rebuilding and importing it costed me 8000Eur which in dollars it's around 10,000$. In Germany i would probably sell this car for 16,000eur maybe if i'm lucky 18,000eur which in dollars would be around 20,000$ or 22,000$. So basically the firms buy trashed cars, rebuild them and resell as a perfect condition.
However, i wish we would be RHD, then import from Japan would be so satisfying. My dream car is Nissan r34 gtr, so if we were RHD i would definitely drive this car :)

OFH, OFT, grimmspeed intake pretty solid bang for buck. But I would hate for you to feel like you just needed another 10hp to be happy after. And then end up getting better header/tune later.

Have you seen or know what flex fuel kit is? It lets you run Your premium gas when you want and E85 when you want can even mix them and you can have your tunes/maps switch to compensate the different levels of ethanol. It’s probably the best bang for buck upgrade as long as you live and or commute within 15mins of a station. E85 alone is good for another 10hp on top of everything.

However if you insist on not runnin E85, and staying NA for a while, Crawford Power Billet Blocks when tuned properly with other mods can make decent gains.
Shifts the power band down a little. Basically 5-6hp more from 5-6500rpm and 2-3hp less from 6500rpm and up. A good tune can help the gains and lessen the losses though.

As for which ace header, it depends where you want to make the most increased power. Ace 350 (most expensive) has the highest low/mid torque for daily driving and filling in torque dip. Ace 250 has the highest COMBINED torque/hp. Good for mid/upper rpm power. And ace 150 has the lowest low/mid range torque but the highest top end power. 250 type B is 1350 pretty solid deal imo.
Also the ace 400 similar to 350 but even more torque but lower top end is in classifieds for 1250 new in box, could try to negotiate little less.

86TOYO2k17

the thing is, probably i will feel the lack of power and i'm not expecting the header, exhaust, air intake or/and oft tablet would do a lot to my brz character. But the time has come to customize and make it more "charactery" which would suit my daily driving and upgrade the overall feeling while driving. Maybe the bang for buck is the answer now and after half a year i will decide to make more changes. Tbh, maybe the supercharger is emotional based thought, that it would make brz the super rocket but maybe i don't really need it right now and i could invest that money elsewhere. I really need to think it through the weekend and meditate on that thought. Don't get me wrong, i love my brz (i hate the torque dip though) and comparing with BMW's i had, i think it's way more "characery", way more fun and has that spiritual animal which makes you go fast through corners :D So, here it is, maybe it was the signal from universe when my shipping carrier send me the price of transporting the supercharger :D Well, i think i will get the answer soon :) Thank you for help! Really appreciate it :)

To over simplify it.
OFT+OFH = 17hp
OFT+OFH+E85 = 25hp
ACE + custom ecutek = 25hp
ACE + custom ecutek + E85 = 35hp
CAI add about 3hp on top of that
And catless frontpipe + catback another 2 on top of that.

Also not to overwhelm you but if you don’t go charger. You can get final drive kits from Japan 650$ shipped. Which can make a huge difference doesn’t add power but you will accelerate quicker. That could be the icing on the cake for your NA build.