Help regarding new 2018 BRZ (price advice)?
 

I am looking at the new 2018 BRZ limited (blue) with Performance Package.

I specifically wanted to get the 2018 because has a few upgrades over the 2017

the latest get Starlink with Apple CarPlay is important to me, plus the one touch turn signal (I know that's a minor issue but I prefer that).

I am willing to pay extra for the 2018 as it's obvious the 2017 will be a bit cheaper, around $1000+ more for the 2018.

I don't mind spending a bit extra.

here is my specific question regarding the new 17-18 BRZs

1) I read the headlights on the 2013-16 cars were poor (I don't recall where I read this but somewhere the headlights were 'bearly adequate') the 2017 has LEDs headlights does anyone know if these are any better?

2) one car I am looking at has some options (which I can take or leave) it has auto dimming mirror with home-link. I read somewhere (again not sure where) that the auto dimming doesn't work well (is that true or not)? If it it works OK then I don't mind it at all (can use the home link as well).

3) other options are Rear Bumper Applique, Cargo Tray, and Wheel Lock Kit.

total price (MSRP) $31,100 but sale price $28,800 +$300 doc fee +tax and tags.

is that a good price?

I'm not sure where you read this. You might have read a review of the FR-S headlights, which are different. The BRZ headlights have ALWAYS gotten fantastic reviews for being excellent factory units with great output. I personally have no complaints with the ones on my 2015. The LED units on the new ones, as I understand it, are even brighter. I doubt you will have any issues. If anything, the only complaints I've heard are that the new ones are so bright that sometimes people get flashed by oncoming traffic (but that is more likely just that their headlights need to be properly aimed.)

Not sure where you read that either! I believe Subaru uses the same auto-dimming mirror that I bought after-the-fact: made by a company called Gentex. I have no issues at all with mine, and I think it works very well. It's one of those things that I never "needed" but don't want to live without anymore, as it is truly useful. Homelink is something I like because I hate having to have that stupid, ugly, garage door opener thing clipped to my visor (which I also tend to knock off with my helmet during autocross, lol.)[/QUOTE]

This is more of a personal opinion thing. My vehicle came with all of those items. The rear applique I think is always a good idea on ANY car because otherwise you will inevitably scuff the crap out of your bumper over time when loading things. If by "cargo tray" you mean the rubber cargo liner with the lip, it is ABSOLUTELY worth it, because it will not only contain any minor spills, but it's made out of a really grippy rubber that does a great job of keeping things from sliding around, unlike the factory carpeting, which is, like, made with teflon fibers. Wheel locks are not a foolproof way to protect your wheels (if someone wants your wheels, they WILL steal them whether you have the locks on there or not) but they are a deterrent for a basic thief, and they are one more thing I will always have on my vehicle.

Honestly, I don't know what a good price is these days, but as a benchmark, I bought my 2015 Series.Blue special edition BRZ brand new for $27,350 + taxes and fees, for a grand total of exactly $30,000 out the door. The MSRP on that car was exactly $30,000. They had no "deals" going on, but I simply offered them $27,350, and they accepted my offer.

People will argue all day long about what a good price is, and they will insist that you haggle them, and negotiate, and play them off of other dealerships, etc... which is fine. But honestly, if you are happy with the deal you are getting, that's much more important than whether or not someone else 6 states away got the same car for $500 less. It isn't going to make any meaningful difference in your monthly payments. When they said yes to my initial offer, I could have sat them down and spent 4 hours negotiating an even lower price, pretending to walk out, etc... Did I do any of that? No. Why? Because I was happy with the price I offered, and I wasn't about to waste my day, and stress myself out, and the salesman out, just to try to shave a few extra hundred bucks off of the price of the car. I walked in, we signed stuff, and I walked out. Quick and easy, and much less stressful for everyone involved.

Headlights are great! I owned a 2016 but my 2018 BRZ LEDs are more brighter. Subaru made this change to keep a safety rating from the IIHS actually.

The Auto-dimming mirror works ok, anything is better than a truck’s low-beam hitting the low sports car rear view mirror, and the auto-dimming mirror is actually a little wider too so you can see more.

Your price is good. It’s basically dealer cost. I’ve seen better (couple hundreds), I’ve seen worse (thousands).

thanks for the reply.

To be honest, I have read a ton of stuff about the twins. It might likely have been regarding the FR-S headlights, I just assumed they were the same between the two cars.

Regarding the dimming mirror, it was in a comment section (below a real article) and often times there will be a lot of rumblings about how this or that is a bad car because xyz. I think to be honest this was the case when someone was saying the BRZ is a good deal because it's cheap (not costing a lot relatively speaking) and the reply was that he owned one and sold it because it was cheap such as the dimming mirror doesn't work and other issues but that could just have been mad ravings as I can see a lot in the comment sections.

1 - might have read that about the FR-S halogen lights, BRZ all had HID's. They illuminate the road just fine, though the '18's LED lights will be a bit brighter.

2 - The auto-dimming feature of the Homelink mirror works great. Can't comment on the actual Homelink part as I don't have a garage ;)

3 - at the end of the day it's your money, get what you want.

Though don't automatically rule out a '17 if you can save a bunch over an '18. The Car Play and Android Auto could be added via a head unit easy enough, and the one touch lane change can be done via a flasher (plus some bonus features like strobe hazards!)

Most FRS headlights are halogen bulbs whereas all BRZ have HIDs.

New ones now have LEDs which are brighter but not I read that their light output wasn't as great.

thanks!!

I've been toying with the tS but just can't seem to figure the cost. I mean one thing I like about the BRZ is the cost (I think the performance package at $1200 is a steal) but then when I see the tS is what another $4000 past that. Also I actively hate the large wing on the tS and would likely need to replace it with a normal spoiler, that I don't seem like it's worth the cost. I believe (can't find it now) but that I saw a tS for sale like $32,800 and this car I'm looking at is $28,800 so looking at $4000 more for the tS not sure.

Since I'm here, just want to get some reassurance about the BRZ.

I drove two (one a used 2015 and one a new 2017) couldn't really feel the difference between the shorter gearing and 5 more HP. But heck rather have both in the 2017-18. But the point was that I was on a test drive so really didn't get to drive it like I would. I don't abuse the test cars at all, but really with these cars they should be taking the whip (I believe once they are broken in).

But so I owned a S2000 (had removable hardtop) so that is the bogie that I'm trying to replace. I also had a V8 M3 and found that was fantastic in it's own right except the weight issue an extra 800 lbs really is noticeable. Also the M3 was wicked fast but that kind of took the fun away, now it was fun at stop lights that's something I'll miss. But most other ways it was just too fast that I felt like that I was keeping down only driving 50% power so that I was not really getting to drive it like I stole it.

I feel like the BRZ would be a great substitute for the S2000 which I prefer the coupe over the convertible and I can't fit in the MX5 anyway.

Your price sounds inline with the price I'm paying this weekend. Negotiated for a couple weeks with dealers all over the state. Best I could find was $31,300 out the door for a car equipped the same as yours. I feel the same about the ts, that spoiler spoiled it for me as well as the added cost that I just couldn't justify personally for a dd

Just purchased a 2018 Limited auto with an MSRP of 31,236 and paid 28,995 plus dealer fee of 399. I'm a fairly good negotiator and got several competing bids. I didn't have the negotiating benefit of the car being on the lot as I ordered this from the factory. New 2017's were about $1,000 less, but in my area, there weren't a lot of them. tS's just aren't moving and I think they will be discounted significantly in 5-6 months.

I paid 29 for my 2018 with Performance package, auto dimming mirror, rear bumper app and Sti short shifter.

Add more for fees, warrantees etc.

I pulled up truecar and had a printout for 28,500. The car stickered at 31. We settled at 29 with a 2.9% apr.

LED headlights are fantastic.
Fogs actually work.

I would think the area has a lot to play with it. Try different zip codes in truecar. Also I wanted red the only car I could find that I liked was a white in my state. I mentioned that I wanted a red and would order it. Knowing I would go home with the white.

I'm glad I took it home. I love the car.

Good luck with your purchase.

Thanks.

just wanted to ask, as some of you might have had other cars that may be in a different league for speed/power like I said with my M3 or if you had Mustang GT or WRX STi (type cars).

Do you find the BRZ to be adequate for daily driving and weekend back road use. I won't ever track the car and like I said many cars that'll do 170 mph won't ever be uses to their potential as my area both safety and law enforcement tend to be the limiting factor more than absolutely power.

Half the reviews I read/watch say the BRZ is the most fun you can have for $30K the other half say the engine is horrible and the car is too slow. I am not ever racing and I own a 2007 Legacy Wagon which is not fast at all, but I still dash ahead of *most* people at the stop light. I imagine that the BRZ will feel quite peppy compared to my old wagon.

I'm not expecting it to be the S2000 (top end) but if it feels like a S2000 that rev limited at 7500 instead of 9000, that would be ok. I expect that in a lot of ways it would feel like an S2000 engine (AP1) where it has modest TQ and short gearing and low weight, it's probably that just missing the extra 1500 revs that is where you lose the extra 35hp.

Oh the homelink works very well. I had them on two other subarus (WRXs) and they didn't work as well because the cars were tinted (go figure lol).

This car isn't tinted and the mirror dims well.

I also like the up and down signal on the garage door opener. It does work further then the fobs I got with the garage door.

No problem this is actually one conversation where I can have something good to add lol.

I have had numerous 240sx(s) with turbos, FD RX7 (400whp), wrxs etc etc etc

Daily driving - more than what is needed. Our speed limits are 65. The car does fine there. I have more than enough to get a nice ticket.

Weekend back roads - all the damn time. Just in the area I need. Enough to rotate the rear and slide when wanted. Too little to worry about punching it in second with the rear coming out on you while pointed straight (oh so many RX7 stories).

I find that with age (I am in my 40s) scale has come into play.

I have a miata that I beat the utter shit out of autox - backroads - avatar is at the tail of the dragon. It is 90whp? 45mph feels like 90 with the top down?

So with the addition of the BRZ the day I feel it is slow I will drive the miata for a week. Change my scale. Get back in the BRZ and be happy again.

I can't beat a honda CRV off the line with the miata. I can now with the BRZ lol.

There is nothing better then keeping up with much more capable vehicles in a lower hp car.

My next one will most likely be a 718 when the BRZ is paid off.

Sounds about right for a '18.
I thought about it, but those were not changes I really neeeeeded.
The stock radio in my '17 is CRAP, and yes I wish it had Android Auto, but I will be replacing it eventually anyway, and I am sure it will be better than even what is in the '18
Oddly, they seem like the same deck, wish it would just a firmware update that would give you Android Auto.
The stereo sucks anyway, needs alot of help in all areas.

The headlights in my '17 are AMAZING.
Love the headlights and tailights in these cars!

heck, I was also looking at the Cayman, but the new one was $60-70K (that's was too much) and the 2-3 year old was $40-45K which is fine. But then I figure that the Porsche needs to go to a more specialized service place and that I don't like to drive one hour each way to get my car serviced and repaired.

I really love the Cayman and it's surely better and quicker but the price and convenience of the BRZ is what I like at this time. Plus that I'm keeping my old Legacy and we have 4 other cars past that. The idea that the BRZ is both cheaper and likely more reliable and cheaper to buy tires and repairs that kind of has me thinking to go with the BRZ. I don't really care about the prestige, had the M3 already found the prestige was not worth the extra price especially regarding service.

just trying to decide if I should pull the trigger on the BRZ, because test drives are notoriously limited. First you are trying to just get the feel of things, outward visibility, ergonomics and such and often you can't get the best feel of everything such as backroad performance and acceleration when limited by a co-pilot salesman plus that the cars are new and I don't redline new cars, respect the break-in period.

I truly lucked out. I didn't really follow what happened with the 17s because they weren't an option.

I got the 18 because the timing was right.

Android auto is AWESOME. I was going to consider XM radio and I do like the traffic on the tom-tom. But with android auto I can pay for Spotify for my family of four $15 a month and use google maps which has traffic.

Headlights and taillights are also wonderful.

I was in the same boat. I have two kids so the double or damn near triple price of a 718 didn't make sense.

A shame you have to travel so far for a Porsche dealer.

Agreed 100% the consumables of a brz are way less then the 718. M3s are nice but I wouldn't want to put them in the mix. The only one I wanted other than this was a Porsche.

That is weird. In NJ we are able to take test drives without a dealer in the car. The test drive for the BRZ was the first time they asked for the passenger's license as well. She might have driven it too.

I think in the time I have had it I hit redline once by accident. I also take it easy for the break in.

There really isn't any need for raw power with this car. I tend to carry more speed in ala the miata.

Car is a blast on backroads. Haven't taken it up to Bear Mountain yet.

Problem is I’m out of town the dealership won’t hold the car unless it’s under contract (sold) so it’s not as easy as if I’m able to test drive it again. Will have to see next week if it’s still there.

I also looked at the Cayman and test drove a few. I owned Porsches for 27 years, but they were 928's (i.e., front engine/rear wheel drive). Driving the Cayman is a whole different experience. It is a superb car, but you feel less connected to the road even with the superior handling. It was a nice car to drive, but I just didn't have as much fun as the BRZ. That's why I just purchased the BRZ even though I've never owned one before. I spent close to $20k on my last 928 for repairs/maintenance even though I only owned it for 8 years. Changing the steering rack cost $5k alone. Changing the oil was about $400, and that was less than the dealer charged. The Cayman is also a lot quieter. But I've had my share of Mercs, Bimmers, and Porsches over the years, and really don't need them anymore. Instead of choosing the Macan as my compact SUV, I chose the Sportage, and am happy with the purchase. Price is not an issue for me, but in my last few years on earth, I just want to have some fun...

IMO i think its a great price. Especially with the PP. My friend managed to get a 2017 PP for 27k before taxes and fees, however this is also right when the 2018's came out so they were cheaper.

I myself got a 2016 for 27k before taxes and fee's. I feel like i paid a bit more than i should have, also considering if i had waited 5 months i could of had a 2017 PP. But i couldnt wait and honestly it doesnt really bother me. The 2016s feel more raw to me and i like that a lot.

Being a fellow previous S2000 owner the car scrathes a similar itch but its not quite the same. I found the S2000 to be incredibly "mature" almost serious when it came to corners. Becuase they are so prone to snap oversteer, exploring the limit of the car was a bit scary in a way.

The BRZ is a lot more of a playful car. More close to the Miata (my girlfriend has a 2017 ND). Exploring the limits of the car is a lot more forgiving.

One thing i like a lot about this car compared to the S2000 however is that driving close to redline is a lot smoother. Because you are in V-Tec after 6k RPM, the S2000 can almost feel like this caged beast that you stop paying attention for just a second and it will eat you alive.


I love both cars and i'll most likley own another S2000 in the future. But you cant go wrong with the BRZ PP. I'd say try to negotiate. If you can knock the price down 2-3k i'd say you are golden.

17 vs 18; PP vs tS; Don't wait... just get it.
 

Hey, Rai-zero:

Figured I'd weigh in, since I've had similar ownership experiences, and I've recently gone through similar purchase considerations that you've described.

1) '17 vs '18: My advice? Do it for the headunit alone. I had a '17 Limited, and while I loved the car, I HATED the headunit. I "upgraded" to an aftermarket solution with CarPlay (Pioneer 4100NEX), but it's utility was compromised by spotty reliability. And it wasn't nearly as pretty as the stock headunit despite purchasing the Canadian BRZ dash piece with which to frame it. The '18 headunit is CarPlay native, and works perfectly. I love having an actual volume knob, too. And while I miss the bass of from my aftermarket subwoofer, I plan to rectify the sound with an OEM+ upgrade in the not-too-distant future.

I can't comment on the difference from a '17 Limited to an '18 Limited with the PP... because I opted for the tS. The ride is quite a bit firmer compared to the '17, but I can already notice a "plantedness" that wasn't there with the non-PP/tS platform... and I prefer my tS already, not even being beyond the 1000-mile break-in.

Get the '18, and definitely do the PP. Or the tS. (Come on, you know you want to!... :thumbup:)

2) M3 (or 718 or 911 or xxx) vs BRZ: I, too, owned an E92 M3. Loved it, daily drove it, tracked it, autoXed it, canyon-runned it. The sound alone (wide open on the long opening straight of Laguna Seca) still makes me pine to see it in my garage (or hear it every morning when I started the ignition). That being said, it had WAY too much power for this novice HPDE driver: 150mph on the Roval at Fontana scared the sh!t out of me, and made me realize that I might very well end my (or its) life by being unable to handle its prodigious envelope. The Twin's envelope is still beyond my capabilities (for now), but at least I'll be probing the limits at less lethal speeds (I hope).

After driving my '17 for a year and half, I can honestly say that, on a daily basis, I'm having 100% of the fun I had with my E92, at 35% the cost. It's more than adequate for daily driving and weekend "backroading." And yes, like you said, while many cars today might be able to "do 170mph," 99% of the drivers out there will have 0% capacity to handle them at their limits. While I might be deluding myself, I definitely feel like I can handle its - and my - limits when driven to 8 or 9 tenths. Like Xxyion said:
And you, yourself, said this in another thread:
Nailed it.

Like you, I also considered a P-car (both the 718 and 991) and couldn't justify the increased expense. I loved driving the 718 (and haven't ruled out owning one eventually), but I couldn't sacrifice the "+2" of the BRZ, and it's ability to haul my 10 year-old's hockey bag. And the 991 was just stupendously expensive when I optioned it the way I'd want.

And this is totally true:
Besides, in my neighborhood, every other schmuck who isn't driving a Tesla is driving a Porsche. I'm proud to drive the only BRZ in a 5-mile radius. :party0030:

3) Regarding your original questions: Headlights are great, both in the '17 and '18. Autodimming works well... as does Homelink: I can't imagine ever opening my garage door with an ancient standalone opener again. Bumper applique, trunk liner, wheel locks? Can't imagine you'd be able to find a Limited without those things. And I'll repeat what Stang70 said, because it's totally on the money:
4) Pricing: Again, Stang70 said it best:
If you're satisfied with the price, don't worry about $500. Hell, if you were seriously considering a 718 - even a used one - you've already saved yourself at least $20,000 by considering a Twin. And you'll be having just as much fun.

In summary, I'd recommend the '18 without reservations. Having made the jump to the Twin platform myself almost 2 years ago, I have zero regrets. In fact, I opted to purchase my tS after leasing my '17, knowing it'll be in my stable for many years to come.* The '18 will serve you well.

Peace!
Dok

* Why I chose the tS over the Limited PP is another story. Happy to relay it for those interested.

thanks

At the time that I was buying my M3 which was 11 years ago (I think), I was exploring other cars such as GTi and Civic Si which I didn't get because wanted the RWD, and power experience. I was just out of the S2000 at the time and wanted something bigger.

Looking back should have got the Civic Si because I like the smaller but high revving engine and the running costs would have been much better. I lost too much on the M3. I don't feel sorry that I owned it, but the money could (should have) been used differently should have kept the S2000 and bought a Si or GTi. But I didn't have room for an extra car at the time. I think the S2000 would have been fine for weekend (not DD like I had been doing).

Regarding the Porsche Cayman, I drove the 917 but was shopping for the prior generation 2014-16 $39-45K I didn't really want to deal with the running cost plus who knows if the car that I buy which might have had two prior owners if it may have issues. Some were private party sales and what kind of recourse do I have? It's usually sold 'As Is' or the dealership experience they have a higher price.

I really like to a *new* car like 10 miles on the odo, sure that cost me dearly with the M3 but the BRZ is starting so much lower that it's less money to lose period.

Finally, I always liked little cars such as first gen MR2, the 240SX, S2000 Civic Si non turbo and feel like the BRZ while it may compete on paper (price) with a Mustang it's more like if Toyota had kept making RWD small car like the Corolla 86. Today's cars like the Civic bigger than the old Accord used to be, the Civic Si now weighs 3200 pounds. I know it's got 300hp but along the way it lost something when it put on a thousand pounds of weight.

I'm interested.

I *would* get a tS because it's the best version of this car. But really dislike the rear wing so much that I would look into a wing swap, not sure what that involves. Does the rear wing make it hard to see out of the rear window?

If they offered the car with the standard wing, I would more likely buy it.

Besides the wing there is also the higher cost, not sure if I want to pay more than $30K when the idea for me was to get a relatively cheap fun car.

Can you give me an idea how the better tires work, how do you compare it to the Limited with PP.

Besides the wing, tires/wheels what else does the tS have (I guess it's tuned better handling how is that?)

TBH the Ts is just a slightly more track ready PP. The PP is just a limited model with brembos and STi wheels (to clear the brakes). The tS on the other hand has the suspension slightly stiffer in some areas, the wing helps with downforce for better cornering, the aero kit allows for better air flow. Honestly though, if you arent a fan of the wing you could always buy a PP and just purchase the STi lip kit after the fact. You might save yourself a few thousand in the process.

The tS is mainly for people who are going to be tracking the car heavily. Its the most track ready version of the car you can buy from the factory. If you are going to be mainly DDing this car or just using it as a weekend car and not really taking it to the track, then a PP might be better for you.

The auto dimming mirror works fine. I've never had an issue. Works just as well as the one in a Land Rover.

The HID headlights on the 2017+ are great. If anything there is not much difference between low and high beams, but I have never gotten flashed or wanted for more. One thing not yet mentioned is that the 2017+ are auto leveling with a sensor on the rear suspension. This makes me think that lowered cars will "auto" aim their lights too low and throw distance on low beams would suffer.

I hate the 2017 head unit. I'm either going to get the widescreen Kenwood or a cast-off 2018 unit eventually.

I chose the PP and I'm not looking back. I hate the wing and don't really like the red trim and the aero package on the tS. Grippier tires are just 25K miles away. That leaves only the difference in suspension tuning...and I'd bet that the difference between the tS and the Sachs is minor if on the same rubber.

I did however add a Harrop supercharger and OEM Audio+ system. For less than $40K I'm completely happy and right there with a Cayman (w/ a low rent in interior).

Hey Rai:

I initially disliked it, too, particularly since I'm nearly 50 and the thought of stepping out of a car with so much aero and that huge park bench on the trunk made me a little uncomfortable. However, I plan to track it, and I trust that the STI engineers know just a little bit more about aerodynamic tuning than me... so instead of me adding a bunch of aftermarket (or even OEM) stuff to it later, and personally trying to tweak things, I figured I'd get one already set up by the pros.

I thought the same thing. As far as a wing swap - Because I was so turned off by the wing before I saw it in person, I considered a number of options as well: removing it and plugging the holes with rubber pledgets for reinstallation for HPDE events; buying another trunk lid with the standard wing and swapping out the trunks for track days; doing a trunk swap with another BRZ owner. I don't think I'd recommend drilling hole for the standard spoiler and swapping the two out, but that's another option.

However, after having seen it in person, and driven it for a couple hundred miles, my plans to somehow rid the trunk of the wing have faded. The overall look is growing on me.

No. Sure, it takes a little getting used to, but after ~100 miles, it's like the thing has disappeared from my vision. The magic of our brain's visual processing.

The tires are much stickier. So much so that others have complained that they rob the driver of the fun of the PP being a bit tail happy, with its standard "Prius" tires. Personally, I prefer the kartlike precision of the tS set up, and don't miss the occasional oversteer during power-on turns, and that seems to be the main difference with the tS wheel/tire set up. What I am happy about is the Pilot SS4's improved wet road performance; I don't have to worry as much about the rear end getting away from me during turns in the rain.

There are a number of additions, including the aero package and wing, 18" wheels with wider and stickier rubber, better brakes (but also on the PP), different front V-braces, STI springs, Sachs dampers (also on the PP), and flexible draw stiffeners. I've heard they've retuned the suspension to make it ~5-10% stiffer for less body roll compare to the Limited, and my gut (and butt) tell me this is true. The ride is a bit stiffer than my Limited (but still comfortable in daily driving), but I think the already amazing steering has been dialed up a notch: it's incredibly precise.

I haven't done the math to see how much it would cost to have all the tS extras installed on a PP, but I suspect it would be much more than the difference in MSRP. Plus, this way, you get the expertise of the STI engineers in tuning it from the factory.

Additionally, I prefer the tS interior to the Limited. Yeah, the red seats are flashy, and the red seatbelts are nifty (and Porsche would charge you ~$1000 to do that), but all the "metal-finished" plastic dash pieces are black rather than silver, which looks better overall. I suppose you could swap those out on a Limited though... or you might not care. Perhaps I'm justifying the extra $4000 I spent... :D

But like Xxyion says:
I think he might be right, given what you hope to do with the car. I suspect you'd get just as much fun from the PP as the tS, and the standard tires would allow you the tail-happiness that some drivers pine for. And if you don't like that sorta thing, a simple upgrade to stickier rubber is an easy and inexpensive upgrade.

My only caveat, don't discount the tS until you see it in person. That made a huge difference for me... the wing is growing on me. :burnrubber:

Hope that helps, and doesn't add more confusion to your decision. Peace, and good luck!

Dok

I can actually notice the differences in the tS. It's a razor sharp car in the city when you're turning at intersections or off a freeway ramp. I don't have much experience with the PP but I think the differences come down to 18-inch wheels, grippier tires, and the chassis stiffening.

The tS will hold its value too but it will also hold its value at the dealership if you know what I mean. And if you decide to swap the wing, I don't imagine that will be hard. You might end up with a couple hundred bucks too. That wing is like $4k but if you offer it for a swap plus $1k I bet someone would do it.

Thanks

I'm now looking at both PP or tS

I don't think that I'd do a trunk swap or whatever because that would not do well in resale. Plus the hassle, so I'd probably keep the wing if I decide to go with the tS.

I will say that I prefer strong planted feel to loose feel like skidding coming out of a stop while turning right (for example).

Any thoughts would help me decide, is the rear wing bad or good? Especially rear window blockage?

If I get the PP likely would get new rubber so the price difference is not as great looking at that way. Plus maybe I would like the better reinforcements and suspension of the tS?

The car is pretty planted even with the shitty "prius" tires. A lot of it is how you drive. before i changed tires i only ever broke the tail end out once by accident and that was before i took a turn harder than i should have.

You can skid this car no matter what tire and wheel setup you have. My friends "drift" right hand turns all the time and they are running sticky Michelin Pilot Super Sports or Hankook RS4's.

A few things to consider. The rear wing will add down force. It also adds weight. The Aero package adds downforce. The wider tires add more contact to the ground. Everything there is for maximum grip from the factory. It will also weigh a bit more. You would be surprised at the difference between having all that vs not. That being said the wing doesnt make a huge difference unless you are at high speeds 80+.

A big question is. Are you planning on modding this car at all? If so maybe the extra suspension wont matter to you if you plan on ever lowering the car or getting coilovers. If the car is going to stay completley stock then yeah maybe the tS will be worth it for you. But if you plan on doing any sort of mods, maybe a PP would be the better deal for you as its more of a base stock form than the tS would be.

don't plan to do any suspension mod, maybe an open flash someday but mostly stock.

I will tell you this. Exits offramps and jug handles are a blast with a PP car stock.

I get interested in a car when I see one ripping thru an exit at speed.

Miatas were ones that always killed me.

The next is going to be a mini cooper.

You will be a happy person with a 18. I don't have a complaint yet. I will be getting either a weathertec or Subaru trunk liner.

Future some 200treadwear tires will replace the stockers.

Today was a rainy day and I drove the car in to work. LOVE it.

Forgot to mention my daily driver is a 2010 Quad Cab long bed Tacoma.

Miata is stock class built koni yellow shocks, racing beat front bar and 15x6s with 200 treadwear tires. It is very twitchy (right place right time - highway not being one).

Also have a few motorcycles. I am happy with the doing more with less power route.

My knowledge here is far less than others, so forgive me if my terminology or accuracy is not 100%.

I got my 2017 with PP for $26.5 + that tax crap in early February, when it was arguably the worst time of year to buy a BRZ (hence probably their willingness to cut the pricing a bit, even though it was only one of two or three new blue BRZs in the state at the time, and at a point where most Subaru dealers did not even have new BRZs in stock at all.) At that point in time, no 2018 PP models were available, the tS was only just coming in and priced higher, and I had my doubts I could get the price that low on a 2018 so I went for the 2017, forfeiting CarPlay (especially knowing that whether I purchased a 2017, 2018, Limited, base, or tS, I was looking at nearly another $1,000 expense almost as soon as I bought the car.) The 2017 headlights are fricking amazing. The 2017 factory headunit is absolutely abysmal, much like every car I have used (supposedly the 2018 is an improvement,) and Subaru StarLink is so bad they should pay us to use it. I'm hoping the 2017 and 2018 head units can be swapped (still waiting on confirmation, and then playing the waiting game for one to come up for sale if they can!) I think the sticker on mine was $31-ish?

Are you going to drive this during the winter in MD? (If so, the way you wish to go about may add more benefit to opting for the tS, or the money you save over the tS with a Limited/PP might be put to better use.)

IIRC the tS comes with MPS4S summer performance tires (as opposed to the Primacy HP summer touring tires) - but if you are planning on winter driving in MD, IMHO both are poorly suited for our area that time of year and you may want to factor in buying either A) UHP all-seasons, or B) a second set of winter wheels/tires. As the MPS4S are ridiculously better tires than the Primacy HP, if you are OK with a summer tire for the nice months than this might work to the tS' favor (I feel the Primacy HP tires are something that many find themselves replacing sooner than later - I did - where as with the MPS4S, which is arguably a benchmark of its performance class, you will probably not find them deficient with even the hardest of street driving.) I went the route of MPS A/S 3+ UHP as I did not want two sets of wheels, so for me the lower price of the BRZ w/ PP worked in my favor and I just took the $800 hit of replacing the stock tires at 1,000 miles (glad I did given what this winter has been like!)

Also IIRC, the tS has a stiffer suspension. I know far less about matching mods than others here, but, to my understanding, this works slightly synergistically in your favor if you wish to run sticker tires (and IIRC slightly against you with UHP all-seasons.) This presumably would be far less of a difference than an aftermarket kit.

The STI wheels on the tS will be an even bigger PITA to clean than the PP wheels, which are already plenty...those are prolly worth having coated or applying a ceramic coating.

Depending where you are in MD, from what I have observed, there seems to be a good chance the car will have crap tons of iron deposits and industrial fallout when new, and the paint will probably benefit from a good decon and compounding.

I’m keeping my Legacy wagon for winter so the BRZ will be a three season car probably maybe drive on warm winter days.

I’ve done snow tires on both my previous S2K and M3 but probably won’t on the BRZ because I want to use my Legacy as much as possible in bad weather days and salt etc.

No closer to a decision, I went to drive BRZ again today, was a 2017 premium trim so no PP or Limited specific features, I wanted to test drive it agin to see if the power dip was going to bother me or not. I didn't notice the power dip too much tbh.

Got to take it out 15-20 minutes without salesman, I brought my wife along, unfortunately my wife does't like the way I drive max acceleration, I was able to drive a bit, but didn't get any backroads at all. This was mainly just surface roads with stop lights about the worse type of test drive. I'm on vacation in Florida where it's just flat and I don't know any driving roads. Basically I just drove it around a few miles of roads with stop lights (fairly straight).

So this was my worst test drive of the three.

I do like the car but it's not perfect. No car is prefect, anything as lightweight with more power costs lots more like Cayman. Other cars with lots more power at similar price are a lot heavier such as Mustang.

I just bought a 2018 Limited auto. While I like the MT better, my wife felt it was just to "jerky" for her (given the way I drive), so I ended up with the auto. The Cayman has the same size engine in displacement. If you added a turbo to the BRZ, you'd have the exact same power as the base Cayman. Of course, if you want to spend the same as 3 BRZ's, you could have the fastest Cayman.

I actually didn't want a car with brute power, as that is what I had driving Porsches for 27 years or so. My last Porsche had over 500 horses. For me, that takes some of the fun out of the car. The BRZ is well balanced, and that works fine for me. It will do almost as well on the track as some higher hp cars because it handles so well. In a year or so, I may well add the turbo, but I'll give it some time before I make that decision. Good luck...

Regarding my wife, she likes to criticize when I drive stick shift (said it was jerky) but to me honest I'm not as used to the car. I could drive it smoothly or fast but not both. Maybe it's not rev matching shifts (I don't know how) but to me the car was fine. I'd say the MX5 and S2000 both had better gear changes but the BRZ is not bad at all.

Anyway it's not that she would be driving with me at all. Whenever we go out and about together we'll take her comfortable SUV.

I just wanted her along to ride shotgun in case the salesman wanted to also ride along. But anyway my wife thinks that I am looking at the BRZ because I was saying how it's cheaper, more dependable and more easy to service than the Cayman. She think that I should not worry about that and get the Cayman. But to me the BRZ (I'll admit is not as nice as the Cayman) but the BRZ is very fun to drive and that's what I'm looking at the most.

I (think) the BRZ is almost as much fun as the Cayman (maybe more). Meaning the BRZ need to wring it's neck to get it to move, so it's more involving.

I watch this Chris Harris Video a lot and while he concedes the Cayman is better but he seems to think the 86 is more fun (I'm reading between the lines).

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUhLXvxlQR4"]Toyota GT86 / Scion FR-S v Nissan 370Z v Used Porsche Cayman S - /CHRIS HARRIS ON CARS - YouTube[/ame]