AP Racing brake systems in development
 

Super exited just got word that Essex Parts is developing two different kinds of AP brake systems for our cars!! The lightest one is 3 pounds lighter per corner so lighter even than the STI brembos!! Cant wait to get these on my car!!!:party0030: For those of you who know AP you know they make serious braking products for race cars i ran their J hook rotors on my GT-R and they were by far the most long lasting and cooling efficient rotors for that car, lotus drivers praise them because they are proven around a race track IMO the best bang for the buck.

Here are the links to pictures and the weight specs:
http://www.essexpartsblog.com/news/E...em-Development


http://www.essexpartsblog.com/news/S...System-BRZ-FRS

:thumbup:
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b3...m_on_car_1.jpg
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b3...voIXBBK019.jpghttp://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b3...no_testing.jpg

Interesting, I was actually looking at the Stillen 4pot AP package. I assume no dust seals on these since they are a full racing caliper?

AP's are the shit! :party0030:

Nice post. Looks like an excellent product.

Here is a copy and paste from their website that answered most of my questions;

Sweet. This kit has been out for the WRX/STI for awhile now and was one of the first things I thought of for a brake upgrade for this car. No need for a big heavy kit with gigantic rotors.

Wow... these look great. Very well priced imo, and the rotors only being $158 and being lighter weight? very cool.

The question is really, do we actually need to upgrade the sizing of the brakes for the general HPDE attendee? The car is so light, the stock brakes might hold up well enough with good pads, fluid and lines.

Lighter rotating mass though... that's really tempting.

They are test fitting several wheels and stuff this kit cleared my enkei rpf1's in 17x8 +45 ill confirm later today that it clears work emotion kiwamis in 18x8.5 +47

BTW is anybody as exited as me for this KIT!! Lightweight + Stopping Power FTW!!!

Here is a pic of the template on the enkeis:
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b3...S/IMG_3178.jpg

Stock with good pads and fluid will good for many, but this will definitely help for those that go to stickier tires and track their car a lot.

- drew

I believe the benefits of the weight saving + the stopping power and cooling effectiveness should be enough to help you encourage your decision. The car is light the stock brakes are good, ap brakes are just better remember the rotors are 2 piece so it helps cool them as well. :party0030: I agree with racecomp on the sticky tires part no point in getting very sticky tires if your brakes are not up to the task.

Well said

Outstanding. The gains from a lighter brake package with improved performance is amazing.

Hi Guys,
Let me know if anyone has any specific questions on these two systems. I tried to answer as many tech questions in my blog post as possible, but I'm sure I missed something! We will have prototype parts in-house within the next few days. We'll be test fitting, and then track testing them in our project car. I'll update this thread and our blog with developments as they occur. If all goes as planned, the Endurance package is also going to have a provision for a brake duct built right into the caliper bracket, which I've never seen done before...should be pretty slick.

Target pricing on these will be in the $2,195 range for the Sprint package, and $2,495 for the Endurance package. It's tough to give a final price right now because we won't know exactly what will be in each kit until all of the prototyping and testing is done.

We are also working with AP Racing to spec out a few other kits, from their Formula line of products. These will use painted calipers with dust boots, etc., and will contain a few enhancements that Essex has specifically requested. We're going to have a four piston front kit that will fit the OEM 17" wheels, a six piston front, and four piston rear. These will all be fully built in England at AP's facility, and they are using some cool new caliper designs. I'll post more pics and info on these setups as we move forward. These setups will be a little more expensive than the competition systems.

Our Endurance kit is essentially the same as what we're doing on the STI, EVO, Corvette, M3, etc. We decided that a lighter version would be more appropriate for many of our customers running this platform. The disc we're using (CP3862) is the same as what we're using in our recently released S2000 kit. It saves a ton of weight over stock, has a ton of benefits, and is insanely cheap for a top quality racing disc.

Here's my question, do these clear the stock wheels?

:drool: Never picked up your WRX/STI kit because it didn't have dust seals. I know dust seals suck, but for a road car I consider them a necessity.

Now tell us about that prototype exhaust system you're allegedly working on.

Might there be an option for 2 piece rotors for the Sprint kit?

here's a question

By upgrading the front brakes and leaving the rear ones stock, will this disturb the brake distribution balance in the car ?

I am aware that front brakes cop most abuse

AP Racing makes real performance BBKS!

Nice to hear that the dust seals would be an option, cause we live in a dirty world )

Also would it be an option to have the non-full-floating discs, as they claim to squeal on low speed ? Or maybe you could provide a set of bobbin springs to carry this full-floating-peculiar squeal and shudder away under low-load conditions?

umm yup you can sign me up for this kit asap!!!

I like these brakes and I am in .... provided they fit under the 17" rims.. Our production racing rules mean keeping to specs so if there is another 17" or I need a 35 - 38 offset no probs. Keep me on the list for your first production run.. Mine is in for the cage next week !! Any time frame for manufacture .. delivery??
Chris

The Endurance and Sprint Competition Systems will not clear the stock wheels. We've verified that 17x8 +45 Enkei RPF1's will clear both of these systems, and we'll start logging other customer fitments as well. I'll post the database of confirmed fitments on our website as the list grows.

The smaller, 4 piston, front Formula system will clear the stock wheel.

Well, dust boots are nice, but the reality is they aren't as critical as people make them out to be. They can burn up very quickly. On just about every car I've ever tracked with dust boots, I've incinerated them in short order. Then all you have left is the tattered, ragged, rubbery remains of a dust boot. They don't do you any good at that point anyway, and you certainly wouldn't want to be changing them out after every track event.

Also, we need to be clear on what exactly we're talking about. Dust boots are the little rubber bits out on the edge. I'll try to dig up some pics and post them so this is clear. The calipers in our competition kits have high temperature seals that prevent debris from getting down alongside/behind the pistons. There shouldn't be any concerns about them getting contaminated and having to rebuild them constantly. People who only sell street brake systems try to scare people about this issue, but it just isn't the case. We have hundreds of vettes, evo's, sti's, M3's, etc. running our CP8350's under all types of harsh environments (think summertime at Willow Springs, with dust and dirt everywhere), and we haven't had a single claim of any debris getting into piston bores.

Also, if when it does come time to rebuild calipers, we offer a caliper certification service (we are AP's exclusive rebuild center in North America). You just pull the calipers, send them to us, we freshen them, and send them back. You don't even get that dirty.

At any rate, dust boots are only useful up to the point where you incinerate them, which in some cases is as soon as you take the car on the track. So, if you only ever plan to drive on the street, they are a great addition. But if you plan to wail on the car at the track, they may not be of any value to you at all.

That is a different story for another time, and there's nothing alleged about it. :D

The Sprint system will be a 2-piece disc with an aluminum hat (also called a bell by some). Instead of being floating however, the aluminum hat will be bolted to the disc without any float. In other words, there won't be any play in the assembly. This is commonly referred to as a fixed hat. As I mentioned in my discussion, this can be perceived as being problematic by some, but the reality is that these discs have already been proven under intensely harsh conditions with the fixed hat. We use them without any issues in Late Model racing, with cars that are 500hp and 2800 lbs.!

We are actually looking at rear solutions as well, but for many people a front setup is all they'll want or need. For most people it is an issue of economics. The key is that the piston sizes and disc diameters need to be within a certain range to work properly with ABS, EBD, stability systems, etc. Therefore, these things need to be calculated and taken into account, which we are doing. All of our front systems will be designed to bolt onto the car without any need to touch the master cylinder, and they will work seamlessly with all of the systems listed above.

Yes, on a front engine car, the front brakes do take the bulk of the abuse and do most of the work. On a rear engine car...something like a Porsche 911, the weight distribution of the car dictates that the rear brakes will be doing proportionally more work than on a front engine car.


The floating hats we use on the Endurance system do not have any spring clips currently, and they can rattle a little bit when they are cold (when they are hot, the discs expand and they don't rattle). For most of our customers who are serious about tracking their cars, this isn't a concern however.
The Sprint system will have a fixed hat as described above, and will therefore not have any rattling noise or NVH.
Squealing is typically a function of pad noise, and how the hat is mounted wouldn't typically have any impact on squealing noises.
Shudder or judder would usually be created by uneven pad deposits on the disc. Our systems don't have any judder or shudder through the pedal. That would usually only occur if you overheated the pad material and smeared it on the discs in an uneven fashion.

Great. I'll definitely post details as soon as I have more! I'm hoping to be selling these by the end of summer.

Chris,
Both of the Competition systems (Endurance and Sprint) will fit under many aftermarket 17" wheels. That was a high priority during development, as we knew those most interested in these kits would be wanting to run the smallest, lightest wheels possible. On our car we will be running them under 17" Enkei RPF1's, and they should clear many other 17's without any problem.

We already have wheel fitment templates drawn for these kits, which will allow you to check a specific wheel for clearance. I'm reluctant to post them on our site until we've completely finalized design, since the offsets could change slightly if we need to make a revision to the kit after test fitting the prototypes. We're supposed to test fit later this week, so I can post the templates as soon as we've verified fitment or decided to make any changes. That means you could order wheels, or confirm fitment on existing wheels, as early as next week.

After test fitment these will go into production. It will likely be 6-8 weeks after that before everything is manufactured and ready to ship. Therefore, I'm hoping these will be on cars by early September.

Indeed they do! We currently service about 80% of the field in NASCAR Sprint Cup with AP Racing brakes. They also have a huge presence in F1, ALMS, DTM, etc. They make the best stuff for sure.:thumbsup:

Great. Decision on brakes made :)

I just pulled together a quick summary of the fixed vs. floating attachment systems. Hopefully that adequately explains how the systems differ and work:
http://www.essexpartsblog.com/news/f...ng-brake-discs

When I say dust seals I mean piston boots. I'm aware they burn up, but a boot-less design leaves me scared of road debris (95% street driving!) destroying the piston bore seals and scarring the bores themselves. You're marketing to a more hardcore crowd; I both understand AND respect that. It's just that when I want to upgrade (let's be real, floating calipers look stupid) I want it to be a functional upgrade and I'll pay for that functionality.

Is there a weight difference between the fully floating discs and the fixed aluminum hat discs?

Understood. It sounds like the Formula kits will be the more appropriate choice for you based on your needs. These systems use slightly larger diameter discs (increase heat capacity, but also fill the wheels out nicely), and come with beautifully painted calipers, dust boots, etc. I'll be posting more details on those soon. Below are the basics as they currently stand:

Formula Front System 1: Four piston, 343mm x 26mm disc, painted red, black, or silver. Fits under OEM 17" wheel.
Formula Front System 2: Six piston, 350mm x 32mm disc, painted red, black, or silver. Requires 18" or larger diameter aftermarket wheel.
Formula Rear System: Four piston, 335mm x 24mm one-piece disc with integral parking brake. Mates up to either of the Front Formula Systems (4 and 6 piston above). Fits under OEM 17" wheel. We went with a one piece rear disc to help keep the cost down and accommodate the parking brake.

These systems are using new caliper designs from AP, and they are going to be beautiful kits. I saw a sneak peek of the six piston, and it is a extremely nice looking piece of kit! They will be serious head turners. We're still finalizing disc options, fixed vs. floating, etc. Price will be assigned after we've established the final specification on these. Again, I will repeat that they are going to be a bit more expensive than the Competition Systems. I would estimate that retail prices will start in the mid to upper $2k range on the Formula front kits, vs. the low $2k's on the Competition kits.

Also, I want to be clear that these Formula Kits are in no way a poser, aesthetic-only upgrade. The AP Racing Formula systems are just like the ones on M3's, Evo's, GT-R's, S4's, etc. tearing up tracks all over Europe. These kits will provide a huge range of benefits over the stock equipment. They just aren't quite as hardcore as the Competition Systems, which have the anodized calipers, piston springs, etc. The Formula Kits will look a little prettier, but they will still have plenty of teeth for serious use!

On our Competition Systems, the Endurance disc + hat is about 5 lbs. heavier than the disc/hat combo in our Sprint system.

wait, so the formula kits are less hardcore than the competition kits, but more expensive? what are the advantages to the formula kits aside from the dust boots and larger brake discs? i guess we'll know when you post more details.

It's a more streetable application. The price increase is at least partially coming from those HUGE discs. Unless they've got aluminum hats those are probably heavy as shit. For comparison's sake, the STI rides on 326mm front discs.

Patience Grasshopper! ;)

We (Essex) are putting together the Competition Kits in the USA, using AP Racing competition components. We have our own engineering staff, and we have a full-time AP Racing engineer who lives in the US and works out of our office. The components we use in these kits are used in a range of racing environments, and are relatively low cost due to the volumes we import and sell. For example, we have stacks of the CP3862 discs to the ceiling in our warehouse. We import most of these parts in bulk and package everything here.

The Formula Kits are fully designed, built, assembled, and packaged in England by AP Racing. In this case, we've given some input on the design, what we'd like to see, shared some data, etc. The Formula Kits are lower volume items, and some of the associated costs with producing them are higher. The discs are larger, the calipers have to be painted, they come with brake fluid and pads, more labor & materials to pack them in England, etc. Therefore, the prices to the end-user are a little higher.

The Formula Kits will offer many of the same benefits as the Competition Kits. I can't get too specific because I don't have all the details yet, but generally speaking they have the attributes below:

• The discs are substantially larger, offering substantial increases in thermal capacity.
• The front systems will use a two-piece disc with an aluminum hat, which is considerably lighter than a one-piece disc
• Disc metallurgy specifically designed to handle high temps and offer a long service life
• Gloss painted caliper finish that is tested for heat resistance
• Superior pedal feel and modulation due to stiffer calipers
• High temperature, low drag seals = less rebuilding and longer service life
• Dust boots to prevent debris contamination on the street
• Simple pad changes- no need to remove calipers
• Extremely compact package for superior wheel fitment (four piston)
• High quality, Goodridge stainless steel brake line with clear sheath that reduces compliance over OEM rubber design.
• Much more attractive appearance vs. OEM FT86 brakes
• Saves your OEM components in good condition, so you can reinstall them when you sell your car
• Because of their quality and trusted brand name, AP Racing brake systems hold their value well in the used market, and you will get a considerable amount of money back out of them when you decide to part and sell your car
• Comes with AP Racing street brake pads
• Come with AP Racing brake fluid

Think of it this way...the Formula Kits are similar in concept to the type of brake kits that have traditionally been offered in the aftermarket by most manufacturers. They really walk the line between a street and track product. They are technically a street product, because some of the features are a compromise for track use (painted calipers, aluminum pistons, no knockback springs, etc.). That said, they certainly have the stones to do some heavy work, and will offer a huge list of benefits over the stock brakes. They work extremely well for both show and go, all while looking the business. The Competition Kits are geared more towards the lunatic fringe track junkies. They're stripped down and not as pretty, and they are very focused in their objectives. They are as small and light as possible, with function as the top priority. Aesthetics and all other considerations take a back seat to making the car go faster. Make sense?

Both front Formula Kits will indeed have aluminum hats, just like the Competition Kits. Also, the STI discs are 325x30mm thick. AP's Formula four piston will have a larger diameter, but will also only be 26mm thick. That will make it lighter than a thicker disc of the same diameter.

yes i realize that i was just wondering what aside from the dust boots make it more streetable, or what makes the competition kits less streetable.

@JRitt thanks for the info and definitely looking forward to more details. didn't want to seem impatient or anything, i have no problem waiting until you guys get the details all figured out as i still need to buy the car.

please PM Me when the kit will be available

@JRitt
Slight ambiguity: "The Endurance and Sprint Competition Systems will not clear the stock wheels" and "Both of the Competition systems (Endurance and Sprint) will fit under 17" wheels".
Can you tell me if the Sprint System will fit under 17x7.5 RPF1s? Could you tell us what pads are available for the Sprint System?
Thanks.

They make rpf1s in 17x7.5? I thought they were 8" wide. And they should fit. Stock sti bbs wheels fit over the kit and rpf1s fit over the stock sti brakes so there's a good chance anyway...

RPF1 17x7.5 are 48mm offset , the 8s are 45mm.

Hmmmm. Well those probably won't fit. But you want the 17x8s anyway, right? Those are ideal for a 225 or 235.

I was tending towards the 7.5s.

No worries at all.


I'll circle back and check this thread when the kits are available. If anyone else is interested in being put on our mailing list, you can email me. I will be sending out updates as we move forward on all of these brake products (and other products). We have a lot of great stuff in development.

Sorry for the confusion. Neither Competition Kit will fit the OEM 17's. They will both fit many aftermarket 17's however. I went back and modified my post. We will be publishing wheel fitment templates for people to check fitment as soon as we do our test fit and confirm that there won't be any changes to the hardware. I will also be building a database of wheels that will fit each kit, and they'll be published on our website.

As for the 17x7.5" RPF1's, I may have a better idea if they'll fit on Monday. Our 17x8's will probably be here today or tomorrow. I'll see how much extra spoke clearance there is, and we can likely get a feel for if the 7.5's will clear.

The four piston front and rear Formula kit's are specifically being designed to clear the OEM 17"s. If you plan on running stock wheels, they will be tough to beat.

Jeff, thanks for the wisest approach to performance brake upgrades ever !

As you pay so much attention to the brake bias (front to rear), would it result in different piston sizes for the front calipers in the cases:

1) AP front, stock rear
2) AP front, AP rear

I mean, if I buy AP fronts from your offer, keeping my stock rears to make some test-drives - would it mean I have to reconsider pistons (or whatever) in me fronts, when I decide to upgrade rears also to keep the right brake balance?

One of the great things about the Sprint and Endurance systems are the huge range of pad choice. They use what is commonly referred to as the Wilwood Bridge-bolt Superlite shape (in 20mm thickness). You can see a drawing of the Hawk version here. This shape is available in just about every pad compound under the sun from all of the major manufacturers. Hawk's part# is HB521.800, so you should be able to cross reference that with your favorite pad manufacturer.

Below are the compounds we offer, but there are many, many others out there.

For the Sprint system, you'll need to stick with a pad that has a radial depth of 43mm or less (I'll pull together a blog post on this that clarifies a bit).

AP Racing S100
AP Racing C300
CL Brakes RC8
CL Brakes RC6
Ferodo DS2500 (D41 radial depth)
Ferodo DS3000 (D41 radial depth)
Ferodo DS1.11 (D41 radial depth)
Hawk DTC-05
Hawk DTC-70
Hawk DTC-60
Hawk DTC-30
Hawk HT-10
Hawk HP+
Hawk Black
Hawk MT-4

With the Endurance system you can run all of the pads above, but you also have the opportunity to run a D50 radial depth pad, as the swept area on the CP3908 disc is larger/taller than it is on the CP3862 used in the Sprint system. The taller radial depth will give you greater pad volume, which is inline with the Endurance concept. That means potentially longer pad life, as the larger pad volume offers a greater heat sink. We have a handful of excellent options in the D50 radial depth:

AP Racing S100 (D50)
AP Racing C300 (D50)
Ferodo DS2500 (D50, tall radial depth for more pad volume)
Ferodo DS3000 (D50, tall radial depth for more pad volume)
Ferodo DS1.11 (D50, tall radial depth for more pad volume)

In summary, you have an enormous range of pad options with the Sprint system. Just about every major pad manufacturer has something that will work. The pads are 20mm thick, and will last a very long time. Also, the price on this particular pad shape is very low since it is so common. That means low consumable costs as you wear through pads on the track. The Endurance system allows you to run all of the same pads as the Sprint system, but also allows you to run a pad with a slightly larger volume. That makes sense if you're running very long sessions, need greater heat capacity, etc.

I'll get some pics and further explanation up on this soon, which should make it clearer.

Thanks MSTiFK8R.

1. All of the front Competition and Formula kits will be designed to maintain proper brake bias with the OEM rear setup. The piston sizes and disc diameters will allow you to bolt them up without any ABS issues, etc. It will be a bolt-on, seamless affair.
2. The rear Formula kit will be designed to work properly with the two front Formula kits. It will mimic the OEM rear setup. If you bought a front Formula Kit and wanted to add a rear later as budget allowed, that wouldn't be a problem at all.
3. We are currently evaluating a rear Competition kit. When we do produce one, it will also mimic the OEM rear setup, so you'll be able to add it on later without any issues.

So no, you should not have any fear of buying a front kit and not having it work if/when you upgrade the rears. It's quite common for people to buy the fronts then add the rears later.

Pm me when you have final prices I'm keeping my stock wheels I like them but I don't like how the brake calipers looks the stock ones