Clutch Spring Removal? Effects on TOB
 

Anyone who has removed their clutch spring. i heard that someone do not want to remove it because the spring is there to keep the clutch pedal up completely, in order to prevent the throwout bearing from touching the clutch disc; while no immediate harm is happening, you might be speeding up its wear and tear. i just want to confirm if that is true? for those who have have their spring removed and been on stock tob for a long time.

Thank you!

I don't think the spring removal affects TOB life. Without the spring, the pedal is not held all the way up like you said, and has the tinest bit of back and forth play. Even without the spring, I highly doubt the resting pedal is putting enough downward pressure to engage the TOB, and thus cause more wear. I've had my clutch spring out for 5 months now.

I think it's way more important to understand the clutch operating system well enough to decide.

If you're talking about the spring in the pedal mecanism, I'm pretty sure it's actually pressing the pedal DOWN (in order to help press the pedal), and not holding it up.

Idk about you, but my clutch runs CentOS 5. ;)

:slap: ........that's for making me look that up!


:D


humfrz

But you learned a thing today! :clap:

Well, ya ....... but, I will forget it by bedtime ...... :(

Like mrs humfrz says to me "every day is a new day for you, isn't it Roger".

:confused0068:


humfrz

lol

I had to read that a couple times before I snapped in. Well played. :cheers:

Is there anyone who has removed their clutch spring and seen any issues down the road?

The roads over here in AZ have many issues, but I doubt it's because I flicked my clutch spring off the window while driving to work that day...

I haven't and I'm 2.5 years in.

It does both actually. The spring expands pressing the pedal up. Then as you press down on the pedal it compresses the spring until it pivots into the other direction and then starts expanding again helping press the pedal the rest of the way to the floor. If you don't adjust the engagement point after the spring removal the pedal will droop a little. I could actually see how it could put a little pressure on the TOB. The question is, is it enough pressure to make contact with the TOB. Hmmm.

That clutch engagement adjustment could also be dangerous if people preload it too much. That would probably be worse than the spring removal itself.

Perfect solution would probably be a replacement spring that has enough force to hold the pedal up but not enough to assist (mask) the pressure plate.

I did the spring but never messed with the engagement. I kind of like it better without the spring but wasn't as blown away as some others have been. Now that I've had it removed for a while I am tempted to put it back in and see if I like it better in stock form.

I've had two twins and have done the mod to both. With my first, I waited a while to do it and was blown away at the difference and wish I had done it before. MTec makes a clutch spring that is lighter than stock but also keeps play out of the pedal.

Why would anybody want to remove the clutch spring anyway ??......:iono:

Really, I'm serious.


humfrz

with your stock TOB and clutch fork?

I’m curious to try it to see what the whole big deal is about myself...

it was a big difference IMO, i can actually feel the car and engagement point if that makes any sense. When i had the spring in i couldn't feel anything. It was difficult to downshift/ heel toe.

Is it possible to adjust the clutch to be a bit lifted after the spring removal? So that way it won't have that spongy feel.

Thanks for your input ...... but I'm still confused.

With the spring removed, does it make it harder to push the clutch in ....thus giving it more "feel" ......??

I'd go out and try it myself, but the last time I turned upside down and slid my head under there ...... I didn't think I was going to be able to get back out .....:sigh:


humfrz

i always thought the clutch felt dead and no feeling at all, when the spring was removed the clutch felt stiff which it would give you the "feel" this is something you're gunna have to try out yourself no matter how much i describe it to you lol. as of right now i don't see myself putting the spring back anytime soon. :)

That spongy feel is important. Cannot be eliminated. It is the range of travel that allows the actual clutch operate mechanism to adjust to the pressure plate fingers as they slowly migrate outward from normal clutch wear.

Oh, OK, so the spring makes the clutch easier to push down .. ??

I'll stick with the spring ....... cause my old leg likes easy.......;)

All that stiff clutch talk reminds me of when I was a kid, back-on-the-farm.

We had these big ol tractors that the foot clutch lever worked the pressure plate directly (well, yes it had a TOB in between).

That tractor had a big, hairy clutch (off to the left side, where you would expect to see it) and for me (as a young boy) to push the clutch in, I had to use both feet & legs and wrap my arms around the steering wheel, then push like hell THEN reach over and pop the transmission out of gear.

Stopping wasn't all that bad, but starting off, pulling a ground working implement, took not only strength but finesse.

For that reason ....... I just don't like stuff clutches.

THE END

(I get a kick, today, reading how some new drivers are having a hard time with a clutch and a manual transmission)




humfrz

Clutch Spring Removal? Effects on TOB
 

To me it seems like it is that pivot point where the helper spring goes from helping the pedal go down to springing the pedal back up that confused the real engagement point. Hard to explain. That sort of popping feeling in the pedal is eliminated. It does make the pedal significantly harder to press though. I’ve had cars in the past that were not this stiff but still had good feel.

As I said before, I think I’m going to put mine back in just for the hell of it. I think then I will know for sure which way I like best. I’m guessing I will end up removing it 1 hour later though. Hahaha

My left knee gives me problems sometimes and I was a little nervous about deleting the spring but I did it and never had an issue. Even driving 12 hours I never had a prob. The clutch is still very light after the spring delete. But the clutch is more linear and predictable

Yes, stock TOB and clutch fork. No abnormal noises or issues.

The clutch is heavier, but no heavier than anything else I've driven. With the spring in, the clutch lacked feeling for me. I'm sure I could've gotten used to it, but I removed it anyways. I'm very happy with the results.

Good luck with that! The removal is fairly easy, but I've heard that reinstalling the spring is a complete pain in the ass.

I've had mine out for a few years now with zero issues and zero regrets. I will echo what some others have already said in this thread: I felt that the clutch with the spring installed was simply too "vague", like I couldn't really properly feel the engagement point.

Taking it out made such a huge difference for a simple, FREE 20 minute job; clutch is not really much "heavier" than it was before, but has a LOT more feel to it, so I can now accurately tell where the grab point is instead of completely guessing.

I had a BMW E90 before this car, which had a dreaded CDV in it (clutch delay valve) which was even WORSE. It made you feel like you had no idea how to drive stick, even as a seasoned manual driver. It would delay the engagement by a split second and was really hard to get the hang of. I never removed it during the 3 years I had the car, but it was a lot more of an involved job than it was to remove the spring from my BRZ, which was thankfully pretty easy over-all. Even with the spring in, the BRZ clutch was still better than the BMW clutch with that god-awful CDV.

My IS300 has the same BS. It was inline with the hydraulics and wasn't to bad to delete. You just took it apart and then gut it out, put it back together and bleed. The other problem with my IS300 is it has ridiculous DBW lag. So between that crap on the clutch damper crap and the DBW lag it makes you feel like an idiot. I also owned a G35 Sedan 6MT which had tons of DBW lag too. It also made you feel like an idiot. I remember the guy that bought it went with me for a test drive and drove it like crap. He kept saying, "I promise I know how to drive a manual". I would just laugh and say it's just how the car is. I was glad to see that car go, hated that thing.

There were a couple of instances where I remember uttering that exact same phrase to passengers in my E90 after lurching a shift. lol

I must have a dead foot or something. All of these people saying they can feel the engagement point after removing the spring. All I notice is that the clutch pedal is harder to press (which I do like, don't get me wrong, with the spring in it felt like there was barely any resistance). Maybe with time I'll learn that feeling but I honestly can't tell. That and I'm okay with pressing the pedal past that hair trigger spot to disengage the clutch, means less chance of me screwing it up and grinding horribly.

Ok, that make sense thanks.


Mtec make a replacement spring that has a lot less force, but still more than no spring at all.


http://www.ft86speedfactory.com/mtec...ring-1839.html

I or Dee-Kay can help you with the slave cyl swap. All this gushing over removing the spring has me SMH.

I'm afraid of going back to @Decay107 's place... dude's gonna try and get me to install a catless pipe if i go there again.

Like a dog on a bone. He's still trying to get me to join the miata club.

Be strong.

Well he has to unload some vehicles on somebody. Or put another layer in his garage.

The miata has to live outside now :cry:

Don't let that butcher @Ultramaroon touch your car. I know for a fact he re-uses banjo bolt crush washers

I heard. Maybe it can return to the wild.

*sigh* another quarter turn and everyone would've been happy.

:suicide: