Opinions-Keep and go FI or sell?
 

I’m looking forward to some honest feedback here. Obviously we are all biased towards the twins, but read on...

Background: I have a 2015 FRS with 120,000 KMs. It’s my DD, it’s been treated well, serviced at the proper intervals, new plugs, tranny flush. Running headers with a stage 2 OFT tune...but I’m getting the wife’s Vibe as a daily so I can tuck my FRS away as a weekend toy.

Question:Do I drop what is effectively $6-8k to FI my ride, with a tune, clutch, all the supporting mods, or do I take that cash and purchase a new toy, like a WRX or Mustang, BMW 235, etc trade in the FRS and make payments on something new?

I’d like vet to hear the communities thoughts.

Here’s what you do...tell yourself you will hold off on boosting your car for 1 month.
When that month passes tell yourself “ok you know what let me hold off just one more month. Just one”

Repeat this after every month and you’ll soon realize that the car isn’t so bad without FI and you just saved $6-$8k.

If you really want my honest opinion, both options are terrible financial decisions, especially if you go the newer car route. Do you need the FI or do you just want it? Can you see yourself with the FR-S five years from now still? Sure, if you have the money I guess it doesn’t matter.

Drive your Vibe for 3 or 4 weeks straight, then jump back into your FR-S and you’ll probably reconsider your desires. Or maybe not.

I highly suggest trying that though.

if you have to ask us whether you should keep your twin, then i think you've made up your mind :)

Depends on what you like about the FR-S.

In the sub 35k price range, you can chose between light/nimble and high power. Can't have both any cheaper than a boxster/cayman or something similar.

So if you ditch the FR-S for something with more ponies, you'll probably miss the handling. Might not be any better off.

EDIT: Though if you want a suggestion for something stupidly fun to drive, buy a relatively low mileage third gen Miata and pick up Flyin Miata's Targa Package.

You need to ask yourself,
Is this car worth dropping that much more money?

If you have 10-15k lying around then go forced induction. If it is in any way a stretch, don't. If I were you I'd go test drive other cars and see if they were any better. Porsche, alfa, etc. There are so many sports cars out there.

As much as I love the twins, throwing money at them only does so much. You really cannot change enough to not see their roots. It really depends on your budget.

It depends on what you want out of a weekend toy. All vehicles (and complicated machines in general) are a sum of compromises. So the answer to your question will result from what you are willing to compromise on.

If you go FI on the FRS, you change the cost, efficiency, and maintenance vs. performance compromises Subaru/Toyota engineers made. This may also waterfall into unintended effects such as increased cooling needs.

On the other hand, a different vehicle will likely completely change the compromises made for it. My aunt's boxter has difficulty fitting groceries sometimes using both the fronk and trunk. Never had a problem fitting anything short of furniture in the frs.

It’s your money! I say go FI!

My BRZ is my baby/toy. My DD is an '06 v6 std gearbox F150. I love the truck, for me it's the perfect DD. Someone else suggested driving the Vibe for a while and using it as a counterpoint to the FRS. I concur wholeheartedly.

I often wonder what difference it would make for me if my BRZ had 50 (or 100) more horsepower. If I answer honestly, while the additional ponies would be cool to have, I don't think they would affect my enjoyment of the car all that much. Perhaps I just don't drive the car all that hard or maybe it's the contrast between the (genuinely slow) F150 and the (not really slow) BRZ, but the BRZ is my Goldilocks sportscar. Maybe the Vibe will offer the same contrast for you. Give your FRS a bit of time, it may be juuust right for you, too.

How do you define weekend toy?
Competitive track?
Do you know what class the changes would put you in, if even available in your area and all the costs associated with them
More interested in F&F style drag racing in the streets?
Hard parking at meets but able to peel out really cool?

Do you truly believe you can do any sort of quality FI build for $6 to $8K? Are you able to do the work yourself?
Are you prepared to deal with any issues that may come up without complaints?
What happens when you are done with modding the car and get bored of it again?

What makes those other cars attractive to you?
Just want somthing different?
Will you be any happier with them once you had them a while?
A couple of years from now will you be back asking if you should trade your Mustang for something else?

Superb comment! I agree 100%

I actually had the same feelings when I bought this car. I kept thinking about future modifications that would make it faster until I realized that I had already owned this car for 3 years and been enjoying every moment of it with just some simply bolt on parts (exhaust, front pipe) I had been putting on throughout the years.

I came to the conclusion that I just don't need that power to enjoy this car. Exact reasons why I sold my WRX & 335i and replaced them with this car.

I have a few other cars in my garage (Honda Accord, Honda Fit, Volvo S90) and driving the FRS/86 after them is a beautiful thing :)

None of those other cars give the same emotionally connection like these twins.

Also, since your in Ontario. You must also factor in that no insurance company would legally insure you with such extreme modifications like FI. Of course you can just not tell them....but in the case of an accident you could end up in a horrible legal situation.

~

Of course, these are just my opinions on this subject.

You make the final decision. :thumbsup:

Yep . I just got done putting 17K into a DD 2013 FRS (full Delicious Tuning E85 kit and Tune for the Edlebrock FI, exhaust, coilovers, and much wider tires). Of course I will never be able to get the money back out, but that was not the point. The weight changes the character of the car a bit, but for me it was more about having fun in the garage with my spare time and money as well as having a car now running ~4.5 sec 0-60 times. Would I do it again? Yes...

FWIW, I talked to my insurance broker about modifying my car. He says if you modify the engine or suspension in any way it's only the car that is not covered. All other liabilities are in place.

I would encourage anyone to check with their own broker. These laws are fairly new.

Depends on what you like about cars and what you hope to get out of dropping the money on an 86.

Some people like projects
Some people like maximum seat time with minimum wrenching
Some people like getting pushed back in their seat
Some people like owning a status symbol

Do it for the right reasons and you'll be happy.
If you want to feel power, save some $$$ and just get a car that rolls off the factory floor with >400hp, they're a dime a dozen these days.

Sell

everyone will give you a different opinion. If you value straight line speed that much, you should get a car with more factory horsepower and call it a day.

$6-8k for FI + other stuff is not enough budget to accomplish what you want. It will end up being $10-15k

Ahhh.......yes, a twist on the proven AA strategy ...... I won't drink today .....and then tomorrow, say, I won't drink today ...... :thumbsup:


humfrz

You can modify as much as you want and get full coverage on your car. You have to go to one of a couple of specialty insurance companies though and it is gonna cost you. You have to pay to play.

The more I drive my friends' boosted twins, the more I appreciate my stock powerplant.

I suggest you make friends with other "enthusiasts" near you and see if you like the boosted feel. There are always tradeoffs between the best tuned na/centrifugal/pd/turbo setups.

Put money into track time and coaching. You'll forget all about more HP

I agree with people who say keep it and enjoy it, if you do; also with those who slide regarding the tracking.
My car is a "third" car. I had the same thoughts as you do and basically same situation. I went to HPDE day this year, after owning a car for nearly 5 years. I'm sold on the fact that there is a ton to learn and experience, even before you get to the power question. If you find tracking interesting (not sure if you did or you do regularly), I think that is by far the best way to spend money and a lot less than you would spend on modding.

I drove a bunch of cars.
335is.corola.c30t5- extended periods of time.
I test drove more cars than probably 5 average people combined.

Now I drive frs and a 4runner v8.

I would not sell the frs. Ever. it puts a smile on my face to drive it. Its the vehicle that I enjoy the most to drive. Yet, it needs more power. So, I will be supercharging mine as soon as I get the money.

Its all.about what your situation is and how you and your family want to go about things :)

Drive what you enjoy.

I've had countless cars over the years. Most Recently being an e92 M3.

You really need to find out what you want and what brings you the most happiness behind the wheel.

The FRS/BRZ was never a platform I would consider. I'm blessed in life and have a great job. I could have easily been in a new Stingray, a 911, GTR, etc.

I was given the chance to drive a BRZ by a friend of mine. The car really took me by surprise. It's so balanced and nimble. I had a blast driving it. Reminded me when I was younger and was driving a '02 Mini Cooper. Sure it wasn't fast, but I had more fun with that car than any car i've ever had!

Anyways, my buddy was in your shoes and had never owned a higher HP car. I ended up buying it from him and he picked up a 5.0 Mustang.

Power is addicting. You always want more. From someone who has been there. Don't get caught up in the dck measuring contest that is HorsePower.

The BRZ is my weekend/Auto-X fun car. When I drive my SUV and get in the seat of the BRZ I don't care how much hp it has because its such a joy to drive.

Now if you aren't getting that joy out of your car, maybe its time to try something else. Doesn't mean you can come back for another one day!

Someone will always have more power so it's a non winable game. Hell, my '74 911S was slower than my 86 and I never heard people bitching about those being slow. We've just gotten used to these ridiculously high HP cars.

My opinion, if you are interested in track, don't sell and don't go FI. Use that money for a good track set up.
If you are looking for street fun, I'd say sell. I've had a blast in my FI frs since 2013, but I've spent over $10k to get where I want.
As a comparison, I've bought a used Evo and spent only $1.7k on it in mods and tune and I have +25hp/+100tq over my frs with those mods. If you are looking for butt dyno fun, there are better ways of achieving it. It also handles a lot better in the canyons with good tires. So you kind of have the best of all worlds.

Useless comparison..

Your Lancer weight: 3517 lb...
Your FRS weight: 2,806 lb...

People often forget that the only thing that really matters for your "buttdyno" is power to weight ratio.. HP on it's own is a false metric.. NM more accurate anyway. +25hp/+100tq on an AWD monster like that means a lot less than it would for a light FRS... This is assuming your lancer was not weight reduced.

I do agree tho... don't sell, don't go FI. And @OP if you think a mustang will be fun to drive in comparison just remember that not so long ago those still sported truck suspension aka solid rear axles..

I'm with those that say keep the FR-S and get some seat time at the track and autocross. When you see an M3 get smoked by a good driver in some FWD econobox with nothing more than a few upgrades to its tires and suspension, you might reconsider your need for a turbo.

But if you've been to the track a few times and you just want the turbo for some fun on the highway, I would get the M235i. It's still a nice, nimble RWD car for the track, and plenty of power for highway pulls. Out of those three I think its the closest to a turbo FR-S.

I think if you really want to get your money's worth for a +$6k turbo kit on your FR-S, IMO you gotta max out all the usual track car mods first (tires, brakes, suspension, bolt ons, aero and of course, driver mod).

How is that a useless comparison? Tq doesn't mean less with awd it means more if anything because it can actually apply it to the ground.

I moved from 2015 cvt wrx into 2017 brz manual. Both being stock wrx faster and handles pretty well but brz is just way more fun to drive ))

You sir should write a self help book for car addicts


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

A local guy bought my previously supercharged frs from the dealership. I'm using him as a guinea pig to determine if I'd over go FI again. But for now I'd say stay NA.

I agree with this advice. If you have no interest in tracking your car and just want a small RWD turbo car for the street, I'd trade for an M235i. You don't have to worry about all the headaches of an aftermarket turbo. Granted it's kind of porky at ~3500 lbs, but I think it's worth it for an OEM reliable car that will put down 340whp/370wtq with a tune and intake/exhaust.

But if you have any interest in the track at all, keep the FR-S and put your money towards seat time and consumables. The Twins are a phenomenal starting point (or ending point) if you enjoy going to the track and learning how to push your limits as a driver.

I would go FI. Waiting to go FI myself as soon as the time is right. Want more power down low and more straight line speed.

Yeah, I assume you need the power to close gaps on the 401 to stop people from merging.

lol!

What I do sometimes is pull out in front of the people that go into the merge lane from behind me and block them from skipping ahead. Then they honk at me for some reason. Would like the extra power so I can block faster

More grip, yes. However with a small increase the gain is offset by the extra weight an AWD system comes with, not to mention the power loss in drivetrain to four wheels instead of two.

Weight still trumps all. A semi truck has 1500+tq driven by 6 wheels usually... Just to show you can have all the grip and torque in the world it means nothing if weight is not factored into the equation.

Apologies for the negative opening line in my last post. Intentions were only to clarify that hp and tq are false metrics without weight factored in regards to speed.

I agree with your conclusion but I don't agree with your supporting statements at all. Awd cars do more with less in a straight line all the time and the semi argument is silly since the situation (power aside) is so different. A semi has about a dozen shifts before sixty and redlines just over a cold idle for a gas car. How much power would it take to get an frs to match a gtr 0-60?

Fair. No amount of power will help an frs in that situation. Mayyyyyybe if it somehow had a double-clutch gearbox, fatass drag tires and longer gear ratio on first with LS swap or something but that's just not realistic lol. Cheers.

I don't feel like this is a totally accurate comparison. A semis torque is low end and not meant for top speed and quick acceleration like a sports car. The low end torque if for pulling heavy weight more so than because the cab of the truck is heavy.

The power curve is what matters. My evo makes 350ft-lb of tq at 2,500 rpm while my frs makes about 147 ft-lb at the same rpm, which makes the evo actually a lot faster since the power ratio is almost double for the evo at the lower rpm range. Along with the overall higher peak tq, there is a higher hp average along the power curve for the evo.