2019 Subaru Ascent - New 2.4 Turbo Flat-Four The Twins Will Never Get
 

https://article.images.consumerrepor...-driving-11-17

https://article.images.consumerrepor...Ascent-r-11-17

https://article.images.consumerrepor...cent-int-11-17
http://hanabi.autoweek.com/sites/def...?itok=1CPQQzK6

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/20...-and-info-news (updated)

Powering the Ascent is a new turbocharged 2.4-liter flat-four engine making 260 horsepower and 277 lb-ft of torque, the latter at a low 2000 rpm

Nearly half a decade after the demise of Subaru’s Tribeca SUV, the Japanese brand will jump back into the three-row crossover game with the 2019 Subaru Ascent. Built on the scalable Subaru Global Platform that also underpins the latest Impreza, the Ascent rides on a 113.8-inch wheelbase and contains a formidable 152 cubic feet of passenger space in its boxy body, comparable to the Honda Pilot (152 cubic feet) and the Volkswagen Atlas (153 cubic feet) but falling short of the massive Chevrolet Traverse by five cubes.

http://www.motortrend.com/cars/subar...-drive-review/

Codenamed TR8, the Ascent was developed in Japan but will be built at Subaru’s plant in Lafayette, Indiana. All 60,000 annual units are for North America; the plant can build more if needed. It will be available in base, Premium, Limited, and Touring trim levels. The pricing ladder will be announced closer to the on-sale date this spring, but we’re told the Ascent will start just above $30,000.

I didn't know that Subaru was developing a 2.4 liter engine. I assumed they would stick with the Turbo'd FA-20, which is what some assumed the next STI would receive. Probably safe to predict it'll replace the EJ25.

Strip off the turbo and put the NA 2.4 in the Twins, amirite? :iono:

No word on a NA varient to replace the 2.5i.

Does it have more horsepower?

Sure, but it still needs 50 HP more.

I was simply going to say if it does it precludes it from going in the twins in any way. :bellyroll:

I could definetly see them putting this in the next generation 86 (without the turbo, of course). I believe it's been confirmed the next major update will be in 2020. So if anything happens, it would probably be at that time.

I personally have no problem with the current stock output. The car is simply a joy to drive, however, the biggest complaint I hear about our platform is about it's lack of straight line speed.

If Toyota/Subaru think they can sell more cars by adding a little more engine, then I'm all for it. An increase in sale numbers can only mean more support, and the continued production of these amazing cars.

LONG LIVE THE 86! :burnrubber:

Source? Link?

Nothing is "confirmed" about the future of the 86. There is no official statement anyplace that says there will be a next gen or any other substantial changes in 2020 or any other year. Anything being said is speculation at best and outright fabrication at worst.
If they were worried about selling more they already would have done a higher HP option not wait for 7 years into the car's life cycle. Odds are it would be built on the new Impreza platform and be nothing more than a two door WRX (I can speculate with the best of them). An increase in sales numbers of 2020 MY cars would do nothing to increase the support of the first gen anyway. In fact if they did release a higher HP version that maintained all the current aspects that make it popular (unlikely) then the first gen would just get tossed aside and forgotten by most of the "enthusiasts".

Can't find more than a tweet of the image and a link to a website that says nothing about the engine. (https://www.subaru.com/2017-laas)

On the plus side, I found this on Subaru's twitter account while looking.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DNfQTEJUEAAkOuX.jpg

Considering the Nissan GT-R has been in production for 10+ years with essentially the same platform and same engine, it's no safe bet to assume that small production vehicles like the 86 will receive "normal" upgrade cycles in the future.

Whups. http://www.motortrend.com/news/subar...november-28-l/

If you google Subaru 2.4 Turbo, there appears to be a lot of prior discussion about it being positioned as a 3.6 replacement. Probably looking for a bit more torque for larger vehicles, like the outback and legacy.

*Apparently the Viziv-7 concept from last year was speculated to carry that engine, although I don't see direct confirmation from Subaru. So not factual, but then it makes sense as the H6 isn't exactly new, and turbo 2.0 engines in larger vehicles is somewhat rare because of the lack of lower end torque.

I searched it and all I see are a bunch of other forums and low level car blogs talking about it.
Could be true but I see nothing that even remotely convinces me there will be such an engine. Could be an interesting possibility when they change the WRX/STI over to the new platform but I would think we would have heard rumours on that as well.

I said I "believed" it was confirmed, and was very hypothetical in my post. I've read several posts on this forum (and elsewhere) about an update for 2020, so I wasn't aware it was just speculation.

I also don't think it would be a whole new chassis. This one is phenomenal. Why fix what isn't broken? I was just saying I could definitely see them throwing this new 2.4L engine in our cars, IF it even exists. And IF they update the platform.

We're just talking cars, man. Don't see what's so harmful about speculating the future of the 86, even if it's not "official".

Unfortunately car companies fix what isn't broken all the time. In order to have mass appeal to make sales they would have to change this car from what it is to something more consumer friendly. We don't want that.

Not sure how you read my post but it was simply a counter statement to what you said not a call out or challenge in any way. Speculation is great but when somebody expands on the subject or disagrees with it it doesn't mean they are picking a fight but simply have a different view. Speculate away.

Seriously? Because they never update cars with more powerful engines. I guess the AP1/AP2 S2000's don't exist.

They could release a factory turbo 86 tomorrow, and I wouldn't love my current BRZ any less.

Oh you want to play the sarcasm game do you?
Never seen a car "Improved" right out of production?
I think I will run out a pick up a brand new S2000 tomorrow ...oh wait.
You are one person of millions. If they produced a car of equal abilities and more power tomorrow many would drop the current version like a hot potato. Not everybody but enough to cause the current gen to be abandoned by many.
For the record I like the power level of the current gen and think it suits the car perfectly.

I said in my original post that I personally had no problem with the current power output of the car. I also agree many people would covet the more powerful model, but if the engine exists and it was the same chassis. Then you can't tell me with all the brilliant minds on this forum, that someone wouldn't figure out how to swap it into the 1st generation. I mean I feel like there is dozens of LS swaps on here. I think a FA20 to a FA24 would be a cake walk. I guess none of this matters though, because like you said, it's just speculation.

In the instance that it isn't true, what might be the alternative? Certainly, the FA-20 turbo would be adequate, but where does that leave the 2.5 and 3.6? Both are older motors and aren't competitive in terms of power of MPG.

From my perspective, a new 2.4 makes sense and supports the speculation because that gives them the ability to replace the both of the above-mentioned engines with a single block and layout.

I recognize that many other more likely alternatives exist for future powertrain update in the twins. But if the design of the 2.4 is in anyway shared with the FA-20, or better in fact, it'd be interesting to see if they could still hit 100/hp per liter.

I want them to make this suv. We would buy.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-LntyHJ5kjM...-Concept-0.jpg

I wish I took a picture of it but while I was getting my haircut saw either motor trend or car and driver had a buyers guide and they estimated the horsepower 280 hp and 5000 Towing capacity

True. But I would love the new one more. :brokenheart:

I doubt a turbo 86 will ever happen. If it does then it would probably draw a decent percentage of buyers into that trim. Some might argue that it is no different than the WRX vs STI, where more get the WRX, but there wouldn't be the same ratio of 86 to turbo 86 buyers, as there are WRX to STI buyers because the addition of a turbo would be such a game changer. The WRX already has a tunable platform, so the extra cost of the STI for many doesn't make sense, but I could see many buyers wanting the turbo, not just for power, but for ease of tuning and 50 state compliance, out of the box. But this will not happen. The 86 platform isn't designed to accommodate an OEM turbo setup.

I don't think I would love my car any less if a turbo model existed. I know this because I owned an NA MKIV Supra, and it was great, but I also eventually turbo'd it before swapping the GTE engine in the car, and I can say that if an owner wants more power, more OEM power is usually the best place to start.

For this platform, a larger displacement engine could be nice if it kept the rpm limit the same, and the hp/liter the same. I can see it being a replacement more than a higher trim, but more power will likely mean thicker components too, so more weight, and that could be bad.

These same people would then complain at the price increase. :popcorn:

Why does the 1.5L ND Miata get seemingly better reviews than the 2.0L version?

My point is that if they follow the historic sequence of major changes it won't be the same chassis. Even with all the brilliant minds here I don't see any swaps from the current Subie FI line up.
I am speculating as well just in a different direction than you.

Why would they want to install a 2.4L twin-turbo engine to our cars? This engine is supposed to be used in a HEAVY 7-seater future Subaru model.

Agreed. Probably because the current lineup isn’t better, right? The FA20 in the new wrx just has direct injection without port injection, and the STI is using the older EJ motor. Regardless, both motors are designed to attach to an AWD transmission and have turbo and header setups built around space the 86 doesn’t have because our motor is like eight inches lower and ten inches further back.

Back on topic, does anyone know if the Ascent will be released with an updated Forester, and if so, what does that look like?

RIP dreams of a next-gen H6 anything....

Sounds more like this might be the new engine for the new STI if you ask me...

You know most North American so-called car enthusiasts do not buy driving dynamics cuz we all know 3 turbos are better than none.

https://scontent-sea1-1.cdninstagram...MDI0Ng%3D%3D.2

I read an official Subaru statement that the Forester will be updated to the new global platform for the 2019 my.

Interesting speculation, I'd like to see where that leaves the FB25.

The STi is long overdue for an engine, and I think either seeing an FA20DIT with beefier rods, and a bigger turbo/intercooler, or a larger displacement motor with a slightly larger turbo/intercooler would be fine as well. If the rod issue is addressed, I think that motor would be perfectly adequate if the factory supporting hardware was in line. As it stands, dropping the standard WRX motor/turbo/IC setup in an STi would be a bit lackluster. The FA motors need better rods for the STi namesake, not that STi motors haven't had one issue or another plaguing them since the EJ207 was dropped.

I could see an FB25 turbo coming out, not meant for performance, but rather replacing displacement with boost, but I'd love to see an FA25 sort of the way Subaru did the FXT's and LGT's back in the day. An STi motor with just a slightly smaller turbo and a few of the costly tricks missing, (dual ACVS.)

I would definitely miss the 6 cylinder option, but they don't really put an effort into making it plausible. I'd kill for a Legacy wagon with a 3.6l with D4S (D6S?), 6MT with at least an LSD in the rear, bilsteins, brembos, and recaros from the factory...Truth be told I actually tried really hard to get my local dealer to try ordering a 3.6l legacy with an STi trans, but that wasn't going to fly so that's when I test drove a BRZ...

Edit: I'm harping on the dual injection because the FA20DIT cars actually have terrible issues with the valves gumming up due to the lack of port injection. Until you get an AOS, and EGR delete with tune (at minimum,) you pretty much need to get the valves cleaned every 50k.

With Subaru's very consistent and official statement that they intend to have ALL their models (not sure if they include the BRZ as a true "model") on the universal platform by 2020 I personally can't see them developing several different engines. My theory is that they will just work on more versions of the FA20 or FB series to meet the needs for each model but keep variations down and remain compatible with the new platform. In all of their releases for the new platform they are starting to really hype up how it is designed for future hybrid and electric power plants as well so they may be headed in a different direction than what we expect.

I largely agree with you. I think we'll see an FX20 and FX25 block, with different head and induction packaging combos. (Likely a performance head, and an economy head, design it all to hold boost, and use a headgasket, or maybe a different head casting to differentiate compression.)

I sort of liken it to how GM has the LS in everything from luxo-cruisers, work trucks, sports car, etc, all just packaged a bit differently.

If we look to 2007ish in Subaru history, the EJ25 NA, EJ25 Turbo, and EG36 were the only motor options.

Now, we have FA20, FB20, FB25, EJ25 turbo, EG36, it's really unnecessary.

Even simplifying it to a product stack like 07-ish would have huge cost savings. I still can't believe the EJ25 is still in production.

Simplifying it to a 2.0l and 2.5l block, both built to take boost, and using a variable head casting I *think* could make a lot of sense in simplifying the product stack.

Yes!
This is why I have a hard time believing there is a 2.4 in the works. A company doesn't try to streamline all their cars to one platform and then start making different engines for each and every one of them. They already have a lot of money invested in developing the FB engines so I don't see the case for building yet another type.
Could be totally wrong but we shall see eventually.

Subaru has surprised me before with what they do, and as stated, I still want a larger displacement 6cyl in a psuedo luxury sedan with performance pack parts, but I think that will have to be a 'one day' project.

Maybe pickup a 2013 WRX shell with a blown everything, and build it all myself exactly how I want it. 3.6l, STi trans, brembos, HRE's, bilstiens, sound deadening... DD'ing in style, and still welcome at Wicked Big Meet. :D

Yep. I am breaking my own rule of 'never attempt to apply logic to an industry that defies logic every day' by applying logic to their engine choices.

Is there a problem with the rods in the FA20DIT? I don't keep up with the happenings on that engine other than some of the brief comments made at FT86club. I did do a search of Subaru Parts Online comparing the part number for the rod in the FA20 vs. the FA20DIT and they were different so the rods should be different. However, different numbers doesn't necessarily mean stronger. Your thoughts / experiences?

I could easily see a 2.4 coming with the Ascent and for the STI that is rumored to be some sort of hybrid. Hell, they could easily turn everything into an FA or FB 2.4 and ditch everything else.

It's what seems to be the first failure point when you ramp boost too fast, or in general is just the first failure point I'd say 85% of the time. It's a decent motor and one that loves to make power, but there's always going to be a first component to go, and it just so happens that it's usually the rods in both the 86 and WRX FA20.

My opinion is that it makes a lot of sense to do pistons and bearings while you're in there. On the EJ25 motors it was pretty easy to just do pistons and hold 400whp, as the pistons were the weak point, and it takes a decent amount of mods to hit that power level. Due to the improvements in the forced induction design and the FA motor in general, it doesn't take much to get within 50whp, (350) which is about where these rods get less happy. The more conservative you tune, the more likely you are to be able to hold the higher power levels, but at the cost of the car being fun to drive across the power band.