How much boost can the stock fa20 handle?
 

I was wondering if anyone knew what the limit is on boosting a brz. I have a t3 6063 turbo pushing 6.6 psi on stock fueling making 278 whp. I’m planning on getting a boost controller and upgrade the injectors and fuel pump and I’m shooting towards 350-400 whp is that too much on the stock engine?

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=103574
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=38494
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37077
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42222
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=78361
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=67992
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=46778

Way to much information.

Simple answer, It will handle as much horse power as you can give it. Until it breaks.

😮😮😮

Stock power is what, 160-170 wheel on a good day, no way in hell the stock motor can handle 3 times that.

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higher octane

If you run e85 you should be able to hit 350 whp easy.

You said you only wanted around 250 at first (that's how everyone starts out).... pushed it to 278... now you want 350.... or 400.... then what? Either you blow the engine or want more. There's no stopping.

From all the threads I have read here, 278 is about the safe limit, then you will start to break shit. There's not only the engine and fueling, but driveline, gearbox, tranny etc etc. You're going down a rabbit hole that can only be filled with money.

So the only answer is- the stock engine will take however much money you want to shovel inside of it.

I'm a rare kind of guy. I'm making 300whp and I feel like that shit is a little too much.

When I was stock making 160whp the power was 6.5/10 for me.
Now at 295-300whp it's like 12/10...haha
I'm way more than happy.

I'm at 11 psi on Shell 93. But sometimes I hit 12.3 psi in cold weather

Tell us when you find it...

This ^^ is the only answer required!
Anything else is just anecdotal or speculation.
People have blown up at stock and others have run 400+ with no issues (none they will admit at any rate).
The more money you throw at the car the more likely it will survive.
/ thread.

I’m in utah and they don’t really have anywhere I can get e85 only 91

You know that gasoline engine rated for XXX HP does not run at XXX HP always. If you boost the engine to XXX HP and do street driving only, it might very well be okay. If you drive it on track frequently, it fails much sooner. So, the answer is "it depends". Every engine is different and when you are pushing design limits and deviating from the standard equipment, those differences are even more important. If you are boosting the engine, you are rolling your dice. Don't believe anybody if they say their engine is fine. If you had asked what supporting mods are important for the reliability of an engine boosted to a specific level, that would be a better discussion. Then, we could discuss the driving conditions, boost level, and corresponding modifications like oil cooler, catch can, radiator, forged pistons and rods, injectors, fuel pump, etc.

Now, if I say my engine is fine for street driving at 7-8 psi boost with a standard JRSC (factory tune), oil cooler and catch can, will you care? I rolled my dice and I am happy with it :)

It all boils down to risk and what any individual considers to be an acceptable level of it. Any change increases the level of risk. There are things you can do to mitigate some of that risk but it still increases. If a person understands the level of risk that doing or not doing something will create and can live with it then all is good. If they do not fully understand or push things above the level they are willing to accept then they will have a bad time when something goes wrong.
Contrary to popular belief there is very little that angers me but guys that push things too far, blow up an engine and then then whine and cry about it while trying to blame everything and everybody but themselves just pisses me off to no end. I just want to shout "You had to know you were raising the level of risk so what the hell is your problem now"! Don't even get me started on the ones that do it and then say "I am going back to stock for warranty".

Agreed, that is down right fraud.

I told my dealer if they would accept servicing my car the first time I went there after it was supercharged. They were happy to do that; they were even excited to see the car at dealer. I know they have every right to deny warranty if there is a problem. Once the original design was stretched to this extent, it is first of all my responsibility to keep it running and maintaining. But, I enjoy the car even more this way with a stronger feeling of ownership.

Water & meth is an alternative

Yep, I've always been 100% open and honest with my dealer, and I had the same positive reaction from them, with no narrow-mindedness whatsoever. Sure, if any warranty issue could be attributed to supercharging, then there could have been some discussion about it...

Today, my car is 5 years old and well out of warranty, been supercharged and raced for four years, and I still get my Toyota dealer to do my gearbox and diff oil changes because I trust them more than I trust myself for those jobs.

My opinion on what the FA20 can handle reasonably safely boost-wise without forged internals - I'd say +50% whp/torque.
More than that is greedy, pushing the bubble, and inviting disaster IMO. YMMV

I’ll give it a shot. Do you know of any good kits?

I think it’s partially been mentioned, but how you drive and how you maintain your car is also an NB factor in the longevity question.

I’ve been for a ride in @Fish_Eagle’s car on track (great fun), but he always take a lap or two to warm up, and always does a lap or two to let everything cool down.
His engine bay was clean - a sign of someone who cares for the mechanics!
He isn’t boosted to 99psi.
And he does regular changes of things like oil/brakes & brake fluid/filters, etc.

Driving on track with him was fun, but I noticed he didn’t hit the rev limiter, accelerated smoothly (not choppy on/off the gas all the time) and although we enjoyed the full use of his engine power he has mechanical sympathy.

I don’t mention these things for any other reason than he’s a good example how you really should look after your car (whether track driving or not).

Boosting adds risk, but so does sloppy maintenance and really rough driving.

PTuning has a really nice quality water meth kit. I've been eyeballing it for a long time.

As for first post question, most have answered it for you. But to give you some more information. I've had two turbo'ed BRZs, one could handle 9 psi and the other 11 psi on 91 octane reliably without detonation, same ignition timing. I run 101 octane on the track, but only increase power very slightly and more so to save my motor (I'm tuned for both octanes and adjustable in between). A lot of how much boost your car can handle comes down to tune and how well you treat your car.

That’s very interesting... same FI kit on both?

Yes, almost 2 years apart though. November 2013 manufactured date vs May 2015. There will always be minor differences in one engine to the next.

I swapped the turbo over to a new car because the older one was suffering from phantom knock at low load, low rpm for absolutely no reason that I could find.

160WHP stock and 250WHP boosted - much more than that and its a bit of a lottery if you have good set of rods or not.

Yeah I'd agree with this.

Unless you believe the Facebook people making over 500 on stock internals.

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Apparently turbo kits are more efficient than superchargers because the engine has to spin the supercharger. The question is how much HP is going to spin an Edelbrock SC or JRSC? I can’t imagine that it is a lot—maybe 20hp—but if we are talking about what the engine can take then that will be the same for a turbo or a SC, but as measured at the wheels, the turbo will handle more to the wheels. Both might push the engine to 350hp, but the turbo might show 300whp and the SC might show 280whp.

From what I’ve read too, a supercharger is harder on the engine; downshift and the engine throws the supercharger to instant high rpms, so instant boost or instant torque. Some have even suggested low end torque is hard on the engine; I think specifically the rods. Maybe that is why the torque dip is there because it decreases forces at low rpms.

push until you find the happy spot or blow it up, no worries as long as you have 7k I will sell you a built fa20

They would have a similar discrepancy in flywheel horsepower too. FI takes hp to operate but it's not the same as drivetrain losses.

Lol. No manufacturer would do this on purpose.
The torque dip is the nexus of emissions and global laws Toyota had to meet combined with building a “cheaper” sports car.

More time and money (& a change in design) and they’d probably solve this.

Just headers + a tune remove the dip.

Expensive NA Porsches have dips too.

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Drivetrain losses seem to be a percentage of horsepower. Spinning a supercharger is probably more of a fixed number. Big blowers might take 200hp to turn. Small ones much less. Regardless, a turbo will show higher whp for a given engine hp.

Yeah it is there for emissions and gas mileage probably mostly. I’m just suggesting it could be a good thing, and if so perhaps designed.

A bit off topic, but a top fuel drag car takes 600hp to turn their monster super chargers.
Mind blowing!

Fk that hole, grab a shovel! I'm in, lol!

Turbo kit being fabricated. I will be trying to stick with 8-12 boost internals permitting. Planning to update rods and pistons. I don't want insane. I just want boost and reliability, as much as possible. But I run the car hard 110% : (.

^This.

This is the correct answer.

I ran 260WHP for two years, heavy track use no problems. Upped to 320 and lost two engines due to rods. Now back to 260.............

The general information I have gathered is that it will handle about 280whp reliably on the stock engine with proper tune and fuel, but it requires a few supporting mods such as clutch and oil catch can, and possible cooling. Beyond that you are looking at replacing your connecting rods, which are the weakest part of your engine. You should get forged pistons and bearings done at the same time.

The shop near me called AWD Tuning does those 3 things to support 500hp. Beyond that you are looking at sleeves and possible head work.

Is it fully built?