2017 BRZ Vs. Golf GTi in Minnesota
 

I know there is a forum for 86/BRZ Vs. everything else but this comparison is heavily based on region and weather. If I were in warmer weather, it would be BRZ hands down and done. But, as it is, here's the case:


Going for the BRZ: Awesome real sports cars feel and looks, better gear shifter, no turbo lag, better steering, overall more fun to drive, likely better long-term reliability, RWD more fun.

Going for the GTi: better interior quality, to my ears better engine sound, far far more practical with real rear seats and small SUV size cargo hauling, better ride quality, easier ingress/egress, FWD means no real need for winter tires and will not need two sets of wheels. For me personally, I highly highly likes the panoramic roof, I just have this personally issue of feeling claustrophobic without a panoramic view, so this is a very big plus on the GTi.




So, either way, the car will be my only car. I'm single so I don't really need the rear seat but as you know, there are times when you need them along with the extra cargo hauling.

I think by far and away, the major major deciding factor in this situation is the FWD Vs. RWD for year round only car at Minnesota. I plan to travel and go places while here regardless of weather and really not familiar with BRZ in such a place and conditions.

Please chip in from personal experience? and give advise?

Also please, no cheeky comments of "get a Camry / Corolla", I am a car enthusiast, I do know a good deal about cars and driving, and I am looking for a nice driver's car, and such comments are not appreciated.

Thanks..

Subaru Forester, maybe an XT model would be a rewarding DD with all the cargo capabilities you are looking for and AWD for adverse weather as well.

If it is going to be a single vehicle in this climate I would do something with awd. There are people that do run snows on the BRZ and get by however.

BRZ

:lol::lol::lol:

BRZ, just fork over the money for proper tires...

http://m.imgur.com/Dch4chO.png

Oh boy....

I'm really new on this forum and I would usually just click on the ignore button quickly when I run into posters like you but I can't seem to find the ignore button on this forum...

Why would you want to ignore posters who give good advice?

Foresters can also be equipped with a panoramic roof.


Also to add someone to the ignore list it is under their profile, "user lists" (next to send message), and then "add to ignore list.":cheers:

Ahh! thank you so much, I will even give you a "thanks" for this post of yours because it's the first reply I got from you that was actually useful!

Now finally Goodbye :thumbsup:

But really the information he gave you is not bad advice in terms of what car to run with the winter weather we get..

His posting history with me on another thread. I'm sure he knows full well why he's going on my ignore list.

Anyway, I don't want to derail the thread, he's on my ignore list now and I doubt other posters will behave like he does.

Finally? I've ran across two of your posts.



Dude.... you really need to look in to camrys and corollas.... If you think I'm bad, you haven't met ft86club. Thanks for publicly acknowledging your triggering!

Wow I see from your location that you're in Alaska!

Do you drive your BRZ with winter tires year round?

What's your experience please? Some people I've chatted with here in Minnesota warned me of sudden fishtailing on highways that can be terrifying. But these people (two individuals to be specific) had a Mustang, and a BMW M5 respectively, two very high torque vehicles. I know lower torque RWD cars don't suffer from this problem as much. Your input?

Said thread I only assume the OP is talking about.

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showt...=122910&page=2

Sudden fish tail would be caused by user error regardless of the amount of torque in the winter these cars have. Yes higher torque cars will struggle more getting rolling from a dead stop but once your rolling this is no longer a issue but someone giving the car improper inputs and causing the issue.

YEP! He says he is well versed in vehicles and even states he has a 2016 WRX under what he drives, but then he is shocked about third party parts and dealer prices.

Just reading your “pros” for each car it looks like you want the gti already.

I see you've had the BRZ for a very long time and you're in Minnesota

Do you drive it year round? would you personally use it as an only car?

Honestly not, I wouldn't be posting here if that were the case.. I'd save my time (and others) and just call the VW dealer.

Right now, I'm so torn, I feel like flipping a coin and get it over with..

But anyway, I honestly highly appreciate the feedback from everyone..

So I'm in Anchorage, Alaska. we have pretty mild springs and summers (50-70 degrees) and of course cold winters. I run Michelin Pilot Super Sports during the warms months until the highs get in the 40's then I bust the Blizzaks out. With the BRZ/86 drivers up here we are pretty much 50/50 Studded vs non studded tires. The picture I posted was from our first snowfall last week. The street I'm on has a mild slope to it, enough for the kids the sled down the road... With my snow tires on I can drive up that road with no issues, the couple of FWD cars on our side have to drive the back way out because they cant get enough grip to get up. Even my neighbor in his wrangler can't get up it (in a straight line, knobby tire life).

Driving around town just takes a different mind set. Smooth and slow... when its icy out I just short shift until I get up to speed so I don't suddenly break loose. The TC system is pretty good on helping you out. I reduce the amount of lane changes I make because that's how most end up backwards driving over the humps of snow between lanes. I am my more aware of speeds and throttle inputs in corners and intersections so I don't go all tokyo drift into another car (or worse the curb).

The well balanced nature of the car still translates in the winter, daily driving isn't as much fun as summer since I'm not reving the car out like usual, but NOTHING beats a RWD sports car and a open parking lot of fresh snow!

The city here is pretty good about plowing the roads so once I get out of the neighborhood I'm not plowing the roads myself. There was only one day that I didn't daily my car and it was the one (and only day) that schools where cancelled so I drove my other (wifes) car... a Subaru Outback on Studs...

http://i.imgur.com/haeTnXs.jpg

In summary, I have no issue in wintering my BRZ in Alaska. It takes a little more focus but is entirely doable. And I get a ton of thumbs up from people for braving it.

p.s. about highway driving... for the few weeks of winter I avoid them until the Summer Tire Club has finished their seasonal meetings...

http://i.imgur.com/G3hm6JE.jpg

I do not drive it year round. If I could only have one car I would not own a BRZ. BRZ in my opinion is not a responsible vehicle to drive year round in this climate regardless of the type of tires you use.

.......what?

I, too, live in Minnesota. My prior vehicle was a Chrysler Crossfire. I swapped out tires every season, using Blizzaks in the winter. Really, the only problem is on unshoveled roads and icy patches at intersections on an incline. You snow plow after the snow gets around 4 to 5 inches. And you can spin the wheels on icy patches at a stop sign. Now that I have my FRS, I decided to not buy wheels with winter tires on it. I just had Walmart install a cheap set of all seasons (Dimax AS 8) on the stock rims. I have the original summer tires stored in my insulated garage. I will swap them out in the spring. That being said, I am retired, and we also have a Suzuki SX4 AWD that my wife drives. I can use that if I have to get somewhere in deep snow. You'll really have to think about what might be better for your location - that is - do they plow the streets early enough for you to get to work. Do you drive a million miles to work. Is your work flexible during the occasional snow storm, letting you leave early. Good luck, and make sure you check in with the Minnesota forum on this site. Take Care!

Buy a corolla.

LOL

Aaaaand my generous ignore list grows yet one more member

:cheers:


I so loooove this ignore user option, it makes public forums so much more usable...

Thank you sir :)

Thanks for the awesome right up man! really appreciate you sharing such experience..

https://sp.yimg.com/ib/th?id=OIP.gwF...95&w=212&h=118

Did not know there was anything left for interpretation in my post.

I do not find the brz/frs a suitable year round vehicle for this area regardless of the tires that someone puts on it. Can it be used. Sure. I have done it myself. Was it enjoyable or the right vehicle for the task no. So if I did not already own one and could only afford to have one vehicle I would not choose a BRZ. I bought my BRZ from the get go knowing I would always have another vehicle to daily drive and use in the winters.

I drive my FRS year round in Canada with a set of cheap snow tires in steel rims. I didnt have any issues with fishtailing and never got stuck anywhere. Theyre not like trucks where they need the weight in the back to keep them from spinning tires. If you don't drive like an idiot and you slow down before you need to brake its fine. In my honest opinion the traction control on our cars are amazing when it comes to keeping you straight... Ive tried drifting with it on and it'll correct you to go straight again (obviously just turn it off). Everyone complains rear wheel drive cars are the worst... But im reality you turn the wheel and step on gas the back end will swing. I find that better then FWD cars where they just slide and you have no control.

Good luck in your car shopping.

Sent from my LG-H831 using Tapatalk

Current owner of a twin here. My last car was a Golf 6 TDI that I sold back to VW for way more than it was worth. I read somewhere they came with the GTI sport suspension, shared a transmission/chassis/etc. Other than brakes and engine, pretty similar to your GTI.




I would say hands down in favor of the Golf based on utility alone, and the fact that it will be your only car. I had the 3 door version. I moved a twin bed once, sandwiching it between the two front seats. I put the rear seats down and slept in it a couple of times. I moved 8 foot 2x4's sticking out the driver's side window. You get the point. Sooner or later you are going to have to move something. Unless you want to hit up U-Haul or home depot to rent a truck every time, you are really going to want something that has some utility, and the twins do not. If only they hadn't given the twins a trunk instead of a hatch. I have moved some serious stuff in my 300Z. Flat screen TVs, aquariums, etc. I hear the same thing from Corvette drivers.


For comfort and ergonomics, the Golf is way better. The seats are more comfortable, the road noise and ride quality are significantly better. It just feels like a better built vehicle in general. Better interior surfaces, ergonomics, the way the door clunks shut. Everything really. This is your classic German car vs. everything else. I always though that was nonsense until I drove one and even with a lower end car like a VW, you definitely notice.


So lets talk about the twin for a second. If you can handle the utility and the RWD in the winter (yes, RWD is more difficult even if you can handle it. There's not a lot you can do about inferior performance on hills, even if you're a rally car driver.) the twin will definitely be more fun. You're never going to get as good of an experience out of a car that was derived from a front wheel drive economy vehicle as one designed as a sports car from the ground up. Also, a twin will be more reliable and cheaper to maintain.


I'd say the GTI is the clear choice but there is the potential that you could work with a twin. My only question is it would seem your current WRX is a lot of fun and is better suited than both of these so why even get rid of it?

I've owned both a mk7 GTI and now a '17 BRZ. The GTI will be a more practical /comfy DD obviously but if you are an enthusiast, the car will bore you to death. Numb steering, fwd. BRZ with snow tires is the hands down winner if you can make it work as your only car.

i would keep wrx and call it for a day. why downgrade to GTI or a twin? GTI is like a better and more comfy WRX but FWD...... twins are nice but if you dont live next to touge they cry in your garage at night.

Just about to reach a year with the car, so within a few months of having it I managed to score a set of barely used winter tires (Blizzaks) on 16-inch steel wheels from a user on this forum, because I could not afford to get caught in the snow without snow tires. The stock tires cannot handle anything near or below freezing temps. I'm sure southern New England winters can't really hold a candle to anything MN deals with, but I had no issues at all driving my car in the winter and in snowstorms, and I attribute that just as much to having proper tires for the season as I do to being capable of not driving like an idiot when there's snow on the ground. I had the tires on the car through most of April before I went back to the stock barely-summer tires, maybe put around 6k miles on top of the 4k they already had on them, and they've still got plenty of life left. Having experienced what I did, I will never go another winter without snow tires on any car I own again, no matter the drive wheel setup.

I really had no trouble driving the roads and highways around here with snow on the ground. Just leave the traction control nannies on and take your time. The car never did anything untoward while I drove it in snow so long as I wasn't trying to mash my foot to the floor on either pedal or being otherwise not smooth with any of the controls. I occasionally got a little wheelspin on a few starts from stop lights/signs, but nothing different from any other car I've driven other than it being rear wheelspin, and the nannies kept it all in check. The car never once felt out of control or sketchy, and I can't say that for cars I've had in the past.

The car still handles great on snow tires, and don't be surprised to find yourself crawling past SUVs that think they're invincible because of AWD, or people in cars who are moving like snails because they can't get any traction on their all-seasons and think they're going to die. As @Tcoat likes to say, it's a little tank when it's on snow tires, and my winter storms are probably what they'd call a dusting up where he is. I'm actually looking forward to putting the tires back on the car with winter getting here soon...and I don't like winter.

40-50 years ago most of the cars on the road were front-heavy RWD land yachts on skinny tires. People managed to not kill themselves on a daily basis back then during winter, so the argument for FWD and AWD being so much better and RWD being so dangerous in snow doesn't really fly for me in all cases. How you equip any car for winter driving says more to me about how good a car it is to drive in the winter as what wheels are driven on it. All-seasons really don't cut it, and people are just getting away with rolling the dice when they have them on AWD cars and figure it's enough in a place that gets more than a light coat of snow on the ground. I used to work with a guy who daily drove an SVT Cobra year-round. Never drove anything else, and did this for years. Snow tires went on all 4 corners in winter, and he never once got stuck or had a mishap with a commute that was at least a half hour in good weather, likely more, with plenty of time spent on the highway. Conversely, I have a friend who ended up replacing her worn out tires with really poor all-season tires on her Crosstrek, with an hour to hour and-a-half commute, and she could barely drive the car anymore in even light snow. She just had no traction anymore. I would consider both of these people to be excellent drivers, so it really comes down to the car's equipment here.

Now, ice is ice, and there isn't a normal road vehicle out there that can defeat physics when it comes to ice. The way I see it, route planning has just as much importance as what tires you have or which wheels are driven on your car. If you know there's some massive hill on your commute (there's one on mine), and there's a different way you can go that's less risky and avoids that hill, that's what you do so you don't have to worry about not making it up the hill, or someone in front of you not making it and sliding back into you. If there are places where you know ice tends to build up, you pay extra attention in those areas and take your time, or find another route. It's easy to get overconfident in any car, so as I said before, it's just as much about your own discipline in bad weather as it is about what kind of car you're driving, but in my experience this car was never a handful.

All that said, don't let the drive wheels deter you from buying the car if you want it, unless it's a matter of lack of familiarity with RWD, in which case I would say buy the car in the spring to give yourself most of a year's time to get used to it before you equip it for winter driving. Snow tires simply are a must, and you'll find the car drives just fine in snow because of them.

Now as far as the non-weather related aspects of your decision, that's really entirely up to you and your wants/needs. As a single person, I have no need for a ton of cargo space, more than 2 doors, and any sort of nominal towing capacity. For me, it works out great. If I ever needed to move something or haul something large (not a frequent occurrence for me personally, YMMV) I can borrow or rent a truck for the day. The car suits me and my daily driving needs just fine. I've actually been able to fit a lot of stuff I didn't think I could into a car so small, and there's even a thread on here of people showing just how much they can actually pack into this car. It's pretty usable if you don't need room to play taxi or haul around a bunch of crap on a regular basis.

I am not sure I understand this linear thinking (or what appears to be).

In this scenario presented by the OP (one car - either or!), I consider this question to be for someone who is starting out or only wanting a single car? With the user name, I am assuming they are leaning hatch. If you are doing that, I would be considering a WRX/GTI, honestly. The prices and capabilities are matched better. More to the point, GR STi Hatch and call it a day.

Still with what was stated, and if this was me, and I only had to chose what was stated -- a used BRZ. Cheap. Easy to maintain. Parts are dead cheap. Snow tires are cheap. Second wheels are cheap (see WRX/BBS STi Wheels). I have RWD. I can autoX it on the cheap. I want to enjoy what I drive.

Personally, if it was a snow state, I would still have a snow car and a non-snow car. As a Southern US person, the snow cars get beat up. I have worked on them enough to know I won't buy snow belt cars.

- brian

I've currently got a mk6 GTI and an FR-S. I enjoy them both, but they are really built for different purposes. I think it really comes down to how you're planning to use your car.

- If you track, autox or drive winding roads frequently, it's a no-brainer. Buy the FR-S and use snow tires for the winter. I've tracked them both and the FR-S is just more fun with better balance/feedback, lower CG and RWD.

- But if you drive a lot of straight roads or frequently haul people/large items, get the GTI. You'll enjoy the low/midrange torque, refined interior and larger space. GTI's are really versatile cars. You can do long roadtrips in them with friends and feel fresh afterwards, having driven in relative comfort and luxury. You can go to Home Depot and throw big objects in the hatch. Or you can take them on back roads or even the track and still have a good time. The mk7's in particular are really impressive all-around cars and they make really good power with just a tune.

Drive both and see which car fits your lifestyle better. Obligatory pic of my GTI and FR-S:

https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2932/3...337d4574_z.jpg

I have an 04 Forester XT, and decided to keep it after getting a ‘17 BRZ. Living in ABQ NM, there is not that much snow/ice, but anyway I have the old car for getting outback and bad weather. I’m hardly driving it since I got the BRZ. The only down side is I’ve got insurance payments for both now. The Forester XT would kill the BRZ on 0-60, but the BRZ is much more fun to drive...so for now, I’ll keep both. I just have to remember to drive the Forester once every couple weeks to keep the battery from running down. BTW, my BRZ is the white AT with the STI 15-spoke wheels. I have yet to see another with those wheels in ABQ NM. They make it extra special for me, as the Crystal White Pearl looks amazing with those wheels.


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Hey, Bives. Provided you have somewhere to plug it in close by where you store your vehicles, this will spare you the worry of your battery dying in the weeks in between drives.

https://www.amazon.com/Deltran-Super...battery+tender

OP here

Thanks everyone, I chose the BRZ over the GTi. I will post a separate thread later on the "twins Vs. Everything" forum and summarize what I learned on comparing them.

A bit crushed on time right now...