Nightmare from the Dealership
 

Hello FT86 Club,

I read the rules that I could see (first post), please let me know if I accidentally violate any of them.

In late June, I purchased my absolutely gorgeous GT86. I was in love the second I started her up. I still am, despite a number of issues I'm seeming to have both with the car, and the dealership I purchased it from.
I'd like to say I bought this car from a large dealership so I was a little more lenient with the inspection. I didn't outright just hop in and go THIS ONE! I checked fluids, hoses, how she felt on the road. (Couldn't push it too hard sadly, which would have uncovered an issue.)


The first issue I had was a check engine light on my way to work. I was driving in 3rd at about 3000 RPMs. Wasn't pushing it, was pretty steady speed. I managed to catch the check engine light literally right as it came on. I pulled over, let it sit in neutral trying to see if I could feel or hear anything. I shut it off, waited a few minutes, started it back up. The light was still on. I drove it straight to the dealership and asked them what was up. The first week with the car and it's throwing a code. Tech goes out and runs the scan, no light, no code. He checks old codes and sees an engine misfire code. They tell me it's from the spark plugs. Saying they should have been changed at 60K. (I bought the car with 64K). They replace the plugs... Honestly feel like they only replaced the one, since they left the empty box in the engine bay.

Second issue... Pretty bad oil leak. Asked them to check it out (very slow drip, not something you'd notice unless you went under the car. They went under and found an aftermarket Greddy plug that was not threaded properly. They replaced it with an OEM plug and changed my oil. Here is where I segway into my current issue... They overfilled the oil by almost 2 quarts. (Dealerships don't take this accusation well at all... Haha) I put about 400 miles on the car without thinking to check the oil. (I'm not a moron with cars, I, however, don't check my fluids while I fill up like I probably should at this point.) I noticed loud ticking coming from the drivers' side (I think this is cylinders 2 and 4.) I took it back to the dealer, they said this sound was normal, yet they're going to put in a claim to Scion for a replacement high-pressure fuel pump. (Nothing wrong, but replacing a part... Mkay)

Finally, my transmission... I asked the dealership to check out the transmission because it was grinding from 5th to 6th, and from 6th to 5th to 4th if you're shifting while pushing the car. This is NOT from poor clutch work from the driver! Just to prove I wasn't coming off the clutch too early, I left it in while at 6K shifting from 5th to 6th, I could feel it mesh like complete crap while the clutch was fully in. Now when I went over the dash cam footage, the tech decided that shifts from 3 to 6 seconds were a normal shifting scenario. I could hear the engine drop all the way back to idle and then rev back up to match the wheels. They tested this twice not finding an issue.

So, now that I've got my rant out of the way and you're still actually reading this. Should I give up on the dealership (I'm no longer under the new car purchase warranty, 30 days) and hit up the family mechanic? Or should I fight to have the dealership make this right? Also... Love the car, but this particular one... What do you guys think?


TL;DR Version:
Problems: Faulty spark plugs, leaking oil plug, overfilling of oil, upper gear grinding, loud ticking.
Solutions: Changed 1 or more spark plugs, replaced oil drain plug, drained extra oil.
Still Occurring: Loud ticking, gear grinding

http://imgur.com/a/O2AHz
https://youtu.be/kMgo-g1cB3I

I don't really have anything useful to add, this just fuels my hatred of incompetent dealer techs even more.

However, regarding the dipstick photo, I don't believe that is indicating a full two quarts overfilled. The distance between the two holes is one quart. So, it looks like they overfilled it by almost a full quart. Which is still pretty bad though.

Well first off you didn't buy a GT86 I assume you bought a FRS. If it was a 17 then you bought an 86 with no GT in front of the numbers. We all know what you mean though. (Sorry, I like accuracy)

I presume from the mileage it is a 13?
The plugs should indeed have been replaced at 60K and they probably did change them all. If you don't throw the CEL again just consider that fixed.

The oil leak was an aftermarket part and again it sounds fixed. As far as the overfill goes if it was going to harm the engine it would have done it quickly so if drained I would again consider it fixed.

The shifting is a different matter. You may shift fine but somebody before you had 60K to knock the crap out of the tranny. There have been some know issues with the 5th gear sychros though so I would continue to push that with them. If it was reported before hitting the warranty cut off they should still honour it.

The car does make a very loud ticking. It is the injectors and is indeed perfectly normal. It is the noisiest engine I have ever heard and rivals an old Russian farm tractor for ticks and clicks. If running fine it probably is just the normal noises that take some getting used to.

So, in summary, don't sweat the resolved issues, if the tick bothers you have somebody else check it out and try again on the tranny grind.

I will be checking the dipstick religiously, I was told 2 quarts was drained, but since I wasn't with them watching the oil pour out they could have been exaggerating.

Well, that's eye opening, the old owner slapped a GT86 badge on the trunk. I'll be ripping that off tomorrow. Yeah, I wasn't fretting too big on the resolved issues, but wanted them stated just to show how much has gone wrong with this car in the 2 months I've had it. The tranny issue was reported once while inside the warranty, and I have proof of that. It was checked again today 9/8/17 and they were still unable to replicate the problem. I will record it and bring it back to them for the third time and claim that the issue was brought to their attention within the warranty period and see if they'll waive another diagnostic charge. Ticking was drowning out my exhaust. It's nerve racking! Haha

Thank you both for the helpful replies!

Solid advice from Tcoat. Good recording of your engine idling with DI mode. Sounds perfectly healthy. Wait until you start hearing the crickets. ;)

Keep trying with the transmission.

Edit: Rebadge was a popular thing. So much ridiculous hate on the Scion brand. Just silly.

Keep the GT86 badge, it's cool! And it's probably harder to get it off at this point versus just leaving it.

By exhaust, do you mean stock exhaust? Or an aftermarket exhaust?

The FA20 does make a variety of ticking sounds courtesy of the DI system. However, there are certain ticking noises that I would still consider to be a red flag.

For example, if the loud ticking starts as soon as the car is turned on (or perhaps as soon as the high idle drops and you can actually hear the engine), then I would think there could be a bigger issue going on or a sign of potential damage.

Furthermore, if the ticking stays and changes (rises/falls) with RPMs. Try slowly bringing the revs up while in neutral and see if the ticking increases in frequency. If it does and it's louder than just the natural noise the engine is making, then again I would consider it as a sign of something bigger.

You did seem to have a high quality recording of the engine's idle in the video you posted, but it's still difficult to accurately "hear" the engine via YouTube. Perhaps you could meet up with a fellow owner that is local to you or come out to one of the bay area meets and hear a few other engine's idle sounds compared to your own.

Yeah, it's been on my to-do list for awhile. I do like the piston 86 badges on the sides, but I'm rocking Toyota badges on the body, and Scion badges on the steering wheel and key fob. Plus that false GT86 badge which now feels like a poison on my baby.

I have a catback Invidia Exhaust setup.

When I get the car back from the dealer (getting it back from their evil clutches tomorrow morning) I will test it in a variety of manners. I noticed it originally after driving about 4 miles from a cold start. The engine was at operating temp. I wouldn't have noticed it if I wasn't in a rush and opened the door before turning the car off.

Well you could have either the Invidia N1 or Q300. If you are hearing it while driving over the N1 (dual JDM canon style exhaust), then I would be a bit concerned.

If you are just hearing it when you step out of the car when it's idling, then I would NOT be concerned.

Perfect, don't hear a thing while inside the car other than the exhaust note, which is Invidia N1.

Feel much better having only to worry about the tranny. Which I have basically come to terms that something is wrong with it at this point.

Ya like Clip said just leave the badges. It was very common to swap them and although not technically accurate they still look good.

You get used to the ticking after a while. I would be much more concerned if it all of a sudden stopped doing it.

Most of what "went wrong" really is nothing for a car with that many miles on it. Now you know the tick is actually normal, the plugs were past their life and the oil was a badly done aftermarket part it really just leaves the tranny. Be willing to bet that the tranny issue is more related to the prior owner than an actual faulty part but still worth pursuing.

Yeah, I'm sure that the engine didn't like being overfilled, but like Tcoat said, it would've been a matter of driving for just a few miles with it overfilled for something to catastrophically fail. So you at least dodged a bullet there. But wow it chaps my ass to know that some idiot tech overfilled it in the first place.

Looks like he may not (or may based on the people that have had it done without success it is not a given) get to experience the companionship and soothing resonance of the crickets.

Alright, I will leave the badges, despite them blatantly lying about what my car is... *starts searching for GTR badges on eBay*
Thank you for easing my mind a bit to actually sleep. Haha

Yeah, he was on the defensive real quick, despite me not being one of those people who scream their heads off. Was just a simple, "Hey, pulled the dipstick and saw more oil than what should have been in there.". What bugged me the most was even with the picture he said it was hearsay and since I didn't drive the car knowing it was overfilled back to the dealer, there wasn't much they could really do in the sense of checking it out for damage. All because the problem didn't exist that their techs could physically see.

See, Clipdat's in the majority style-wise. His ride is DOPE. Tcoat and I roll stock-ish but we're old farts.

With respect to DI sounds, you'll notice it kick in after it idles steadily for a few seconds. It switches over to make it super clean and efficient. Squirts just enough to keep the engine running. :thumbsup:

But with the incompetence level of this dealer in the high to extremely high range, do we really want them attempting to replace the HPFP? Honestly I wouldn't want them touching anything regarding the fuel delivery system, if they couldn't even not overfill the engine oil.

LOL, what the hell? Have you ever even seen my car?! HAVE YOU BEEN STALKING ME?!?!?

It is funny that the wife's 17 Impreza uses almost the exact same engine with Subaru's DI instead of the Toyota DI/PI system and it is one of the quietest engines I have ever heard.

One oil change lackey screw up does not put the whole service department in question. Do you really think that the actual techs are changing oil? I don't know about the US but here the techs are all licenced and have spent up to 5 years getting it. They are expensive labour and are not doing oil changes. At the very most some first year apprentice making minimum wage is changing oil. At the other end of the scale it is the owners 16 year old child. From the sounds of things the actual techs did a great job of finding and correcting the issues.

Well I appreciate your optimism, but if his car bursts into flames we will know it's because they botched the HPFP replacement.

In the dealer's defense, they did put in for a replacement fuel pump. That seems a bit above the call. Most of us just have to learn to love the soothing sounds of insects under the hood.

More guys have screwed up their own car than have ever been screwed up by trained techs.

Haha... I saw the pics of your superbly-executed widebody work. Unless installed on a dedicated track car, I find the exposed fasteners of the regular RB kit childish and tacky.

Disagree. They know exactly the consequences of overfill yet they can't be bothered to do a quick quality check on the noob/lackey? Have an expensive mentor pull the goddamn dipstick, FFS. Oh, wait. That's too much trouble. Let the noob make potentially catastrophic mistakes on the second most expensive asset I own? Never in a million fucking years. Fuck those clowns.

Instead of responding defensively, they should have rushed to correct the issue and apologized profusely for their oversight.


Oh, and another thing.... grrrr.... :bs:

So I got my baby back from the dealer...

They have placed a claim for a new transmission from Scion and a new high-pressure fuel pump... However... they were NOT able to find the issue. So they basically fill out a form saying that while I can find the issue, they can't. Going to be a rejection from Scion. Pretty easy to come to that conclusion.

They can't and won't push the car. Too much of a liability to them to see if they can replicate the issue where I'm stating it's happening.

Out of curiosity, which dealership did you get it from? I'm assuming you're in NorCal.

Purchased from Hansel Acura, however, Hansel BMW are the ones that bought the car from the previous owner so they are the ones that work on it. I asked Hansel Acura and was told that a lot of their cars go to Hansel BMW because that building actually has the full blown shop. Not sure how the internal communication works with Hansel and wasn't too picky on who worked on the car, as long as it was worked on.

Hansel Acura Service Dept has been incredibly helpful on the front end, I don't post this with the intent of calling them out or anything.

1. Oil in the FA takes a long time to drain out of the heads, especially when cold. If the drain-plug swap was done quickly, it might help explain.

2. The dipstick enters the engine at a pretty shallow angle so the extra height of the oil is less than it appears.

If the engine was filled with the specified quantity of oil without considering point-1, that would explain the overfill. Point-2 makes it embarrassing for the honda guys but that's all.

They should be used to that feeling anyhow. ;)

Haha... They're not allowed to speed. Don't cross it off yet. They aren't denying the issue.

I know that auto group has a Toyota. Wonder why they don't use them????

Toyota is in Petaluma, Acura is in Santa Rosa. Don't know if it's just an insurance thing. Like driving it for transport is different than driving it for diagnostics. Not sure how all their insurance rules work. I'm going to record it post it here since I've learned far more than the dealer has explained, and then take it back and show them as well to see if that makes more basis for the claim to Scion.

Mine is not quite that wide...

It's so subtle that I can barely see it. :cheers:

Do love her in white. I do want to swap the badges back to Scion though. To match the rest of the car.

http://i.imgur.com/WZxplol.jpg

Haha, don't you dare!

I'll throw some Subaru and BRZ emblems on. :thumbup:

Ah, yeah, could be a liability thing. Not sure if you'd want to okay that idea if it's even possible. That's around 20 miles each way if it were to happen, right?

Between those two dealers, it's about a 10-minute drive. It could be done, I'm guessing if someone was to hit them while they were driving it over there, their insurance wouldn't pony up any cash to fix/replace the car since it wasn't driven in a certain area/purpose. That's just my best guess. I know companies are forced to follow a lot of rules and regulations, and I can understand that. I might ask if it's possible to get all the paperwork/notes/inspections etc over to Hansel Toyota and drive it over myself.

Well, hopefully everything gets sorted out for you one way or another.

Is this really wide body? Looks like stock to me.

When you checked the Oil when it was over filled, what side of the stick were you reading it from? You should be reading it from the lower side. (It does look like it was over filled though).

Could you clarify the lower side?