Future Buyer with Questions (difference in year, Subaru/Toyota, things I should know)
 

I am planning to purchase a Subaru BRZ (or possible Toyota 86) by next spring.
I have started my research on them, like I do everything I purchase, but I have a few questions still.

My plans and purpose for the car...
This will not be my only vehicle, and I am basically buying it for pure fun.
I plan to drive it a good bit though, on some trips several states away, such as down in the twisty roads of the Smokies (Tail of the dragon)
And I also plan to do some autocross with it.

Questions:
I cant seem to find much info at all on what was changed over the years on these cars.
I am getting the feeling that very very little was changed from 13 to 16. Is that correct?
It seems a decent bit changed in 17 though, especially when it comes to handling? Per this post.

I test drove a new 17 Toyota 86, and LOVED IT. Wow can it handle. Sure, it could use more power, but wouldnt go as far as calling it under powered. One day, I would probably turbo it.
Anyway... Getting a new one is out of my budget ($20k max) So I have been looking at the used BRZs. Though I maaaay be able to find a deal on a used 17 within budget.
I figure for the 4 to 5 grand I safe buying used, I could get some upgrades for it to make it handle like the 17? Or have they changed more than just the handling?

The post I linked, mentioned they may have also changed how the VSC works, thats not something I could change later myself with bolt ons.

- Mainly wanting some advice on what the differences are over the years.
- What the difference between a BRZ and 86 of the same year would be (other than looks)
- What I should know or be thinking about when looking for when I select the car I will buy.

Thanks

Not much changed from 13-16. Minor things that you won't really notice too much. However, 17s have been updated a lot. I looked at a 2017 series yellow and had the dealership down to $27,500 plus tax, but decided on a 2015 series blue with 1500 miles for $21,000. If it's not your daily driver, like mine, I don't think it warrants spending all that extra money to get a car that just has been "updated". Just like all cars, they get a little bit better with each model year, but does it warrant an extra $8k-$10k for the improvements? The 2013-2016 are still awesome cars. Mine puts a smile on my face every time I drive it.

I am not really a fan of the FR-S. I think the BRZ is the better looking car, but that's just my two cents.

My suggestion on the used one is make sure it's a low mileage, one-owner with minimal (if any) mods. Multiple owners and tons of mods means the previous owner(s) got bored with it and/or drove it into the ground. Find a 65-year old owner who drove it on Sundays in the summer, garaged it, and barely put any miles on it.

Best of luck! You will not regret the purchase!

Pre-2015 brz had nicer interior and more "stable" suspension setup as I recall. FRS was a (very tiny) bit more tail happy. I think I heard Toyota changed the setup in 15 to be closer to Subaru but that was after I already got mine so I wasn't paying much attention.

Some will say the 13s are less reliable, but I haven't had any problems with mine.

Whatever you get, I recommend just driving it for a while before you try changing things.

That's all the semi useful info I have, I'm sure others will be able to answer more thoroughly.

During the test drive, did you shift the car at 6000, and keep the revs above 4000 at all times. If not, you don't need turbo, you need to learn about how to drive a sports car.

If buying used, forget years, colors, options, etc. Get the nicest, least abused, least modded, most adult owned example you can find.

Oh no, trust me, I ran the piss out of it. Even banged it off the rev limiter twice.
Yes, all the power is above 5000, but that is to be expected from this type of engine.
Again, I cant call it under powered at all. But on the highway, or heading up a steep on ramp, it could stand a bit more.
ONE day, I would end up slapping a turbo on it, its not NEEDED to make the car fun by any means.

Forget VSC and other details.

Do not mod your car for at least a year.
First, make it mechanically sorted and reliable.

Take it to the track and start to learn how to drive.
You will quickly learn mods are pointless until you reach the limits of the car.
Unless you want a drag car, you will almost never reach the limits of the car.

I completely get what you are saying.
Please dont mistake this for me wanting to slap every damn mod I can find on ebay on this car. I am not about that at all.
My thing is, I am very particular on what foundation I start with. I do like regretting getting the "wrong" or "lower" model when a couple years down the road it would have been better to get the newer or better one.
I hope to keep this care a long time. Mod it tastefully over time to fit my needs.

So I just want to learn all I can before the purchase, so I know all the differences, and how options might have changed or been improved.

I would look into getting one with the premium stuff like hid lights and reverse camera options. Other wise you'll be hunting down extra parts/ installation hassles and extra money. Might as well get that done and taken care of in one go.

My thoughts...

If you plan on doing any suspension upgrades, most of the non-cosmetic '17 updates and differences between the early FRS and BRZ will be negated. The car will take on the character of the suspension chosen (and associated suspension tuning).

The '17+ manual transmission cars have 5+ more HP (yawn), but more importantly seem to have a narrower, but steeper, torque dip when compared to the earlier cars. Pick your poison.

I'm a simple guy and don't like/need many modern features, but never having to get your key out (BRZ limited, FRS specials) is pretty addicting.

Plan every mod carefully, as it's easy to ruin cars that drive as well as these do - without even realizing it.

Glad you get it.
On the exit ramp, did you downshift 2 gears to keep it above 4000?
I find this car has all the power I need, when operated correctly.

Of course, if you want to get whiplash when you floor it,
it may not be the car for you.

Got it. Good for you.
It seems like there are differences, but not major.
Since you have a budget, an older car will be cheaper.
Buy the nicest cleanest one you can find.
Pay more for it, if you must.
THAT is what you will never regret.

Cleaning up some idiot's mess is something you will regret.
Plus, it will cost you more in the long run.

Thread here with details on the changes to the '17 model: http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=103185

Long story short, the '17 feels a bit quicker with slightly better handling, and the backup camera is standard on all models for this model year too. There have been a number of guys here who traded in their older FR-S/BRZs for the '17 models and loved them.

If you are planning to mod it down the line, getting a used car would make more sense. You can easily mod your car to your tastes, but I would definitely drive it a decent amount before doing that to determine what you really want. A lot of those guys who traded in their older FR-S/BRZs came from modded cars, and got a '17 because they missed the stock feel and/or 'ruined' their cars via mods.

I'll contribute to this thread as a 304 [semi]native.

I disagree with some of the rhetoric that buying a car that has been modified is a 100% no-go, or buying a car from a similarly young person is a no-go.

Neither are true by themselves! I bet if you polled all of the active members, more than half of them would fall under the age of 40 and more than half of them have some modification to their car. If I was a betting man, I would say it's more than three quarters for both.

Instead of trying to find that "unmodified" car spend more time talking with the owner about what they have used the car for, how they drive it, what maintenance history they have with the car, etc. Ask probing questions!

This ^
There are many young guys on here with highly modified cars that I would buy is a heart beat. There are also some older guys with almost stock ones that I wouldn't touch with a ten foot (3.04 meter) pole. When talking cars like this age doesn't really come into play since the older guys that buy them and hang out on here are not just puttering around. Now if I was looking for a nice used Buick... Many of the young guys that hang out here take far better care of their modified cars than even the older ones. To them it is often their first new car and it gets treated like gold.
Odds are that the "normal" person that has hardly drove the thing since it wasn't what they though or bought it on a whim (the majority of sales I understand) will trade it in to a dealer so it can be hard to get the history on those ones. The cheapass, shoddy modded ones will show up at a dealer or through private sale but these can usually be identified quickly. The well done modded cars will usually end up as private sales and this is where you can truly gauge the car by the seller. All in all you can't judge these by the age of the owner or the mods it may have had.

When looking for my BRZ (I like the look better than an FRS), I test drove a 2013 BRZ (30k miles), 2017 Series Yellow, 2017 Toyota 86 and a 2015 BRZ (19k miles).


The 2013 I drove just didn't feel as good as the rest of them. It had after market exhaust. 2015 was stock with tint.


All of them (except the 2013) felt similar but I knew I was going to mod mine so paying for the new one didn't make sense to me. I picked up my 2015 premium for less than 20k and still has a year left of the factory warranty. The 6k-10k savings on buying a new one will be used for mods, lol.

Right, b/c the drifter king will tell you all about the street races, burnouts, and donuts he did at the parking lot. As a general rule, kids that spend all their money on mods tend to ignore maintenance items. If they can't see it, they can't worry about it. They are also more likely to abuse the car. Are there exceptions, yes.

I bought my BRZ from a kid in his 20s. However, he was educated, professional, respected the car, did not modify or abuse it, and had a grown up career, and a very nice house. This is who I prefer to buy my used cars from. And this is who I will tell the internet to buy from until I die.

Your mileage may vary, of course.

My point exactly, thanks.

if you are buying it just for the laughs, then the only thing that matters (besides price) is which bumper/color you prefer...the MY differences shouldn't be big enough to cause you to sway from one to another. any interior upgrades like the covered knee pads or suede dash can be easily added without any fears of diminishing the car's value..

Just look at all the 'Parting out, returning to stock" posts. "Never modified" can be, and many times is, a lie. Unless you checking factory paint inspection paint marks on bolts, it's always a crapshoot.

One writing sample via email
and I can tell with 98% confidence if the car's ever been modded.

There’s a lot of great advice already given in the replies. My only input would be to keep the car stock. Let your driving, especially Autocross, dictate how you mod your car. Don’t go modding based off of what people say or what people have done, since the car is yours, not theirs.

On my previous car (WRX STI) I modded based off trends and peer pressure. I didn’t really enjoy the car and it made it easier to get rid of the car when the time came.

I don’t autocross, but I do track days and time attack. Finding the limits of the car on the track is how I went about modding my car, and I couldn’t have been happier.

Needing to sell or get rid of my BRZ is going to be hard, because it’s MY car, customized with MY mods in every sense.

Good luck!


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Thanks for the tips guys.
I have bought and sold enough vehicles to know the game, as far as feeling out the previous owner and getting a feel for how the car was treated.
Its still a risk anytime you get something used, especially something like a sports car.
I definitely want one stock, I like to pick out my own mods and its almost never what others have on the car.

Hearing alot of good things about the 17, but I will just have to see what the prices are like toward spring when I am ready to buy.
Looks like I can save at least 4k buying an older one vs. a used 17. I will buy the newest, lowest mileage, best treated one I can afford at the time though.

Just wanted to make sure there were not any major changed in the years.
For example,,,, does the 13-16 auto paddle shift just as fast as the 17?
Does seem that the VSC is retuned to match the retuned suspension in the 17, and kicks in less, and not as shark.

there were zero changes with the AT variant between 13-17, so yes they should shift the exact same. my 2 cents, if you are going for an auto (which is a little odd tbh since this isn't your dd), it is probably a much better deal to get a used one. keep in mind if you want a little extra shove, MTs convert a higher torque % to the wheels.. either way, pretty sure in general most ATs have less abuse or at least didn't get their powertrains modded as often as with MTs. don't think you should have much to worry about, the auto trans is proven in these.

As an owner of a 13 FRS, here's my input.

If you have the money, go for the BRZ. I truly think it is the nicer car and for the little more money you put into it you'll get a better quality interior etc.

If you want an FRS (I went with the FRS because I love the more aggressive look)

Get one thats 2014+ The 2013 model year was a tossup. I went with a 2013 and lucked out, if you're going for a 2013 model make sure you get one that has the touchscreen infotainment and not the analog system.

No matter which MY I think you will have fun. Earlier ones will be less expensive, so just find the right match for your budget. I like the updates on the current MY, but saved $6500 by going with a 2015 with 1500 miles. I couldn't pass up that savings for a practically brand new car with the underbody kit and rims that I like so much more than the current one. The series.blue feels special to me. The series.yellow just feels like a diff color.

Future Buyer with Questions (difference in year, Subaru/Toyota, things I should know)
 

Although I already made a reply, let’s see if I can list the changes I observed...
(BRZ specific)

2013 - Launch Year
2014 - New head unit (Fujitsu)
2015 - Aozora/S. Blue Edition, Updated head unit. Knee pads. Carbon fibre-like dash trim, unified suspension between BRZ & FR-S, shark fin antenna.
2016 - Hikari/S.HyperBlue, Updated model of Fujitsu head unit, dash trim design change again
2017 - Full interior & exterior facelift. Azuma/S.Yellow editions, Notable changes: New LED head lights & tail lights, LCD screen in dash, Performance Package


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Thanks for the input guys, sorry, just now seeing this, never got a notification.

I agree its odd to be looking at one of these cars in an Auto. And I am still torn on that.
While this wont be my main daily driver, I do plan on driving it a good bit, and it will be taken on several day long trips at times. Plus the usual PITA of in town driving.
I have owned several vehicles, both in auto and manual.

I first test drove the 2017 Toyot 86 in an auto.
I thought it was great, handled amazing, fell in love with it. The auto wasnt bad at all really. The paddle shifters made it still have a bit of that fun sporty feeling.
I thought down shifts were great, was fun to easily downshift into a turn. Up shifts were not bad, but certainly not as good. I wished it was a bit more aggressive.

Then I test drive a 2017 Subaru BRZ in a manual.
Handling seemed the same to me, though this was a week later.
The manual made the car FEEL alot faster. Even if it wasnt faster, it FELT faster.
You got that surge with each up shift, I barked the tires going into 2nd and 3rd. You simply dont get that with an auto.
And yes, the manual has the different gearing, so it should have more bottom end torque.
Shifter was very nice, good feel to it, short throw, but holy crap, the clutch!!
VERY short travel, very light pressure, was really nice, I loved that about it. Made it very easy to drive, one of the best manuals I have ever driven.

Side note...
Test drive a 2016 Nissan 370Z Auto same say as the BRZ.
The 370Z will RUN, lots of power there, the auto felt about the same to me as the 86, it might have upshifted just a bit faster though.
Handled very well, but, not quite as good, and more importantly, it felt much larger than the 86/BRZ.
Didnt feel as light on its feet.
After test driving it, I drove the BRZ,,, and still, was blown away by this car. Sure, it felt lower, but it made you feel 10 times more confident in it, and just begged you to push it. Felt very small, better visibility.

So I know that you have a budget of 20k here, but you are also looking at getting a used 17. In Canada, specifically ontario, buying used is almost not worth it if you don't have the cash at hand and plan to finance. When I was looking at getting my car I had done a ton of looking around and the only cars that looked to be worth it to buy used were the 13/14 MY cars, both FRS and BRZ.

This then brought me to looking at the 17 86/BRZ.. I liked the BRZ, but for some reason when I walked up to the 86, I just loved it, didn't even get in it yet, just loved it, so I bought that(my post history would show otherwise though lol).

My point is, if money is an obstacle, respect it, but if you can make the sacrifice for something you like more get that. Don't settle for something you like less if you don't have to because of some minor difference in chassis or 5hp, you won't really notice unless you're some kind of drift/race/rice god.

Buy what you like, forget the price... within reason! (also I am not rich, I can afford my car yes, but not rich.)

You really owe it to yourself to at least test drive a 13 FRS. There were small suspension changes almost every year and if you really like it you can save some money. Or at least really see what people are talking about when they mention the differences.