2013 FRS Immobilizer Issue - bunch of questions
 

Issue: Can't get the car to start.

I think it is the immobilizer but I don't know how to verify it.

Pertinent info:
I bought a partially assembled 2013 FRS race car and have been peeping it as a NASA TT4 car. The vehicle was not in running condition when I bought it.

I went to start the car up and can't even get the engine to crank with the key. I can force a crank when I put a hot wire to the starter solenoid, but the car does not fire. Fuel pump turns on and stays on when the key is in the on position. The immobilizer light keeps flashing on the dash.

Is that what happens when you try and start the car and the immobilizer is still active? What else can I do to test? When I turn the key to start I hear a click under the dash and can feel it with my hand coming form one of the ECU boxes. The car does the same weather the clutch is depressed or not. (Clutch safety switch seems to be working.)

What parts are needed for a new immobilizer setup? Gauge cluster, ecu, immobilizer ecu, and steering column mechanism, and key.

(Dealer said the gauge cluster is not part of the immobilizer setup, is that correct?)

The ECU and immobilizer ecu are located under the dash to the left of the steering column, correct?

I'm looking at buying this off of ebay, does it have everything I need:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2013-2016-SCION-FRS-FR-S-OEM-KEY-IMMOBILIZER-ECU-PCM-IGNITION-GUAGE-ASSEMBLY-/272760369622?hash=item3f81c8f1d6:g:5yIAAOSwhilZZu1 8&vxp=mtr

A car won't start because the dash is not the one programmed to the immobilizer so in that sense, yes the dash is affected by the immobilizer system.


Can't a dealer program all immobilizer components currently in the car instead of you needing to buy a whole new set of components?

Have a look for the key symbol on dash.


If it red it means security is still active


Needs to be green for car to start.


It could be key is faulty or not coded to car.


Is the CEL light on dash active ?




Turn ignition on this should power up ECU. Then read error codes from ECU you will usually get error codes relating to security system not synced or ecu not talking to immobiliser.




AFAIK dash is part of security set in these cars, the dealer should be able to code it in. security set is key/imobilisier module, dash and ecu


they may have replaced ecu, its the easiest to re-code see here, you will get error codes relating to ECU to talking to imobiliser.


download the manual here
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12135


around page 4980 are a bunch of replacement proceedures for components in security system, some require dealer software to re-code/sync.


your problem may not be related to security system, might be as simple as blown fuse


wiring diagram
http://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&rc...wTIabWl0Jc6WWw

The car and lock sign stay on even after the key is turned to the on position.

No green key is ever shown. When I watched videos of 2013 FRS startups I never saw a green key illuminate. (Manual transmission.)

As best I can tell the key doesn't have a chip. It has a screwdriver handel with a cut key. (Not a screwdriver jammed into the ignition.)

The rear brakes are currently mission and no fluid in the system. Is their a lockout that would prevent the car from starting this way?

The check engine light is on, but no codes are found when using Torque.

I did go through all the fuses and didn't see a blown one. I would have thought if it was a problem with cranking, I would have been able to get the car running when I forced the starter to turn over.

Imobiliser kills ignition

Your model might be different to ours
Flashing lock symol on dash, when key ir fob in car and you try to start key symbol will go green if ok, red if incorrect or no code, yellow if fob battery weak or signal low

With key models transponder chip is in plastic key head

If it got just a metal key your snookered, you will need dealer to code in new complete key, or find someone who knows how to bypass imobiliser

My FRS does not have the wireless key fob, so that is why the green key isn't coming on.

You say the immobilizer kills the ignition? Ignition to me means spark. Are you sure that is all it does? My motor will not even turn over with the key.

I am currently having the previous owner see if he can find the factory key. I hope he does but my hopes aren't high.

Can the Ecutek software disable the immobilizer?

Its possible they have worked that out.


it not available in the retail kit tables


you would need to talk to ecutek

Picture of the key? Regular FRS keys have an immobilizer chip in them.

I don't believe there is any ignition lock for brake fluid.

Need to check the CEL with a legitimate OBD scanner, Torque can only read engine ECU, the code could be ABS, or other of the car system.


There are ignition fuses in the engine bay (If I'm not mistaken, I once helped a local find a blown IGN fuse and it was in the engine bay box, not inside the cabin), just mentioning it because some of them are not super obvious to check.

So after a bunch of work, I have the following:

CEL code for the engine of:
B1572

CEL code for the body of:
B1401
B1402
B1407

BRZ dash
BRZ control euc
Vehicle ECU with a different vin.
Chipped key for this specific vehicle.

Any ideas on what next? I can't figure anything out about that one engine CEL.

B1572 is imobilser not talking to ecu, the secutity may need resync

Try the proceedure here
No need to worry about vin it wont stop car from starting if a vslid rom is in ecu
As long as it not a 2017 rom

Skip the replace ecu part, just do the loop obd pins for 30 plus minutes, must be more than 30 mins to eork

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=102810

See also here

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=100168

The trick didn't work. I tried it for 45min twice. The second time clicking the start key twice as one of the directions say.

These main body codes have something to do with the immobilizer, however the manual posted doesn't go into repair steps for them.
B1401
B1402
B1407

Any other ideas? The really isn't something I want to take to a dealership as it will cost a fortune.

What part does combination meter assembly reference too? The gauge cluster or something else?

Where is the transponder key ECU assembly located?

Part number: SU00302751

I wonder if I had the same problem, 2013 automatic frs shut off while driving no lights inside car no flashers only brake lights come on other than that the car is a brick?

Did you end up figuring this out?
I am having essentially the exact same issue.

This sounds like a bad ground, possibly a bad alternator/battery.

Not sure if you figured this out, but I'm currently having the same problem.

2013 FR-S. Running perfectly fine. Flipped all harnesses to 2013 BRZ, including the ECU and all computer components, Key Immoblizer, everything. Turned the key and I'm getting no crank at all. However I can lock and unlock the door. Hooked up Techstream and I'm getting B1572 code as well. Sounds like a syncing issue. None of the engine components are bad as I flipped back to the FR-S setup and it's back to running perfectly fine.

So it sounds like a device syncing issue, however as far as I know all the components came from the same donor car. If it's a matter of the immoblizer not talking to the ECU then that could be the case...but when I attempt to start the car, I get the green key light as well as the red flashing light still, so the code from Techstream does make sense.

Guess I'll have to invest in the Key-Pass software unless anyone else has some other ideas.

Thanks in advance.

You have to get the key squared away first. All codes relate to that. Buy an ebay blank with the lock unlock buttons. It will have a chip. Then. Locksmith can provram the key to your immobilizer. Then you can figure out the rest. If you have all sorts of parts from various cars, the dealer can fix it. All this for a fat price. Buying the propercomponents from ebay will be cheaper. But make sure all the parts are from 1 car with key turn setup from a manual car. You need the cluster, the ecm, the integrated assembly module, and the top portion of steering stalk with ignition switch/immobilizer transponder. Otbers say you need the power steering module too but i cant verify that. My opinion is its best to get it. And get the small keyless entry module. Its on the shelf by rear glass

The gauge cluster

@Rabrooks So, I'm not sure if this was resolved, but I'm still having my problem.

I've swapped back to the frs setup and it was fine, decided to take on the brz swap again and I'm having the same problem, then again, nothing was really changed.

All the parts you mentioned, I have with the exception of the power steering. Checking into the security path, I didn't see the gauge cluster or the power steering needed, but even with the gauge cluster from the original car, I'm still experiencing the same problem.

In techstream I'm getting the same b1572 error, but going into the smart ecu readings replies back with an error stating the communication was lost. I can check other readings, however the smart ecu is the problem, which would explain, basically everything if the module is defective. I unfortunately don't have another one to test it with. I've check the fuses, tried 2 different dash harnesses. Still the same outcome.
@sfruski did you solve the issue you were having?

Try this


you will need techstream , can be aquired with cable fairly cheaply on ebay


https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=...&v=Trk09s8NQEo

Also try the ECU resync here jyst the loop pins 4-13 on obd for 30 minutes or more part


https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=102810

Hey thanks for this. I tried this but because I'm going to a BRZ, Techstream didn't show the options that this video had. It looked promising, but there was nothing I can see that took care of that.

As it stands right now I need to have the car working so I'm rolling it back to the FRS with the "BRZ Template" uninstalled. I would love to have this done as I havent heard or anyone doing it before / doing it successfully. I alos like the BRZ interior over the FRS (more modern).

For the immobilizer, their is two different systems:
Push start and turn key.

For turn key the following systems are involved: Cluster, BCM, Key, engine ECU.
For Push start: Certification ECU, Keyfob, Steering wheel lock module, Engine ECU.
For either system, a additional "ID code box" might also be in the car depending on your country. Like CANada/UK have them.

For turn key, If you break the BCM for any reason , you buy a new one, you can do the following: Turn the car on, Connect techstream to the car, Bind the Clsuter to the BCM using that video that was showed. Then finally you can use the paperclip method to bind the BCM to the engine ECU. Do note that although techstream can do the Cluster to BCM bind on any car. Techstream might not be able to add new keys to a subaru system and vice versa. Their was some weird programming on some of these cars and so sometimes it wont let you. Also for turn key toyotas, the immobilizer system doesnt match other "G" chips that toyota uses, so when replacing it it needs to be a FRS specific. Second note. Unlike other Toyotas, a VALET key can and will program other keys as if they were a master key in the immobilizer system

Theirs also two differences how Techstream and SSM handles the imobilizer CERT ecu between Subaru and Toyota.

If you switched out your whole harness ecus.. everything.. did you switch out the Steering wheel lock? The box that attached via a "FLXER Bolt" to the shaft. without this also being switched out your car will not start. Most people forget this and cars wont start.

As for If you lose your keyfob car, Subaru and Toyota handle the immobilizer differently. On a toyota if all keys lost situation, techstream can still connect and reset all the modules in the car with a "seed key". So no need to dissasemble anything.

On subaru however......Their software it setup in a way that the car needs to be on for SSM to connect to the car. But no keys .. on car on situation.. No reprogramming... a replacement has to be done of the module inside the car.

Anyways your code b1572, seem to to "ID code box" code. So im guessing your in canada? If you are.. please note that US dash harness will not work on CAN modules. If you forgot to also switch the "ID code box" and both are CAN then you probably forgot to switch those out too.

Hey, thanks for this information. I'll go over it again when I take another crack at it.

In short, All Harnesses were replaced with the exception of the engine harness. The Dash, Fusebox, both door (using the JDM Door Harness), both flooring, roof, and trunk harnesses were swapped.

All modules: Engine ECU, SMT Main ECU, ID Codebox, Power Steering ECU, TCM, Integ Unit assy ECU (Everything under the Dash) was swapped. Including the steering wheel lock. ( it wasn't installed, but it was connected)

All Key Sense Antennas were installed, (Trunk, Rear Bumper, Behind Push Start, and between the seats, including the receiver located on the drivers side rear shelf was swapped.

Both Door Handles (touch sense), the trunk key button, and key bolt was swapped, Fuel Module located on the passengers rear was swapped as well. I'm using the same keys that were from the Donor car.

I went as far as swapping the AC blower unit to the Dual Climate control.

Outcome: Key fob is recognized with the car to lock and unlock and open trunk. pushing the start button turns on the gauge cluster with lights. getting the IMMO code. engine doesnt crank at all.

The only things I haven't changed over are the following:

Fuel Injector Control Module: (using the FR-S Module) I May have to get a BRZ Programmed one, not sure if it's needed to make the car start / crank.

MAP Sensor: (using the FR-S) Doubt that's needed to have the engine crank.

Engine + Harness: I don't believe that's needed to be swapped.

Door lock actuators: I know the drivers side needs to be swapped to have the unlocking work properly.

Being that this is a Canadian car, the Gauge cluster isn't included in the IMMO Handshake. However for safe measure, I've tried it with the Cluster that was from the same donor car and still the same outcome.

I noticed when swapping to the BRZ Fusebox harness, the Fuel Relay module isn't connected anymore, there's a connection on the FR-S, but not the BRZ. Unsure if that relay is integrated into one of their other modules.

Any light on this issue would be greatly appreciated.

UPDATE:

So I just read your last part:

This is interesting cause I have 3 dash harnesses, two of them were from the States, and the third one I got recently from a Canadian model. This might be the reason i'm getting this issue. It would make complete sense cause the US Dash Harness is wired in a way to have the Gauge cluster involved in the Immo Handshake, whereas the CAN Harness isnt.

I havent tried it yet as I'll wait to purchase some other items I need. This makes complete sense and I thank you in advance for informing me of that very precious piece of information, this may have saved my day!

I'll keep you posted.

OHHHHHH then thats 100% the reason. I was helping someone doing a AT to MT swap. We looked over everything , until the end i discovered he was from canada using a US harness. He changed to a CAN harness from the same year and everything worked! try and stick to the same year as the ECU too. Their huge differences in the harness between the 13-16 and 17+. Make sure you keep the ID code box as a set. then you should be good.

Thank you for this - very helpful as im swapping out various modules on my vehicle as part of a turbo conversion from a wrecked car. One question; when you mention ;

"did you switch out the Steering wheel lock? The box that attached via a "FLXER Bolt" to the shaft. without this also being switched out your car will not start. Most people forget this and cars wont start."

Which part are you referring to exactly - do you have a picture? Mine is a push start and looking at the steering column there is no obvious part that can be switch out? Many Thanks

sorry for the late reply. but basically this. without this car wont start. Only way to remove it is to cut a slice or straight edge to stick a flat head and turn the bolt. Its made purposely hard for security.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/18521796939...Bk9SR5zEj_SUYQ

Many thanks. I ended up switching out the whole column. All sorted!!